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Old 06-27-2005, 07:27 AM   #15
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Not sure Don, but I typically go by what the manufac states in the specs. In this case she exceeded the listed specs by a few hundred pounds and at that point it simply, IMHO becomes a moot point. I am not sure on this but the LR3 could be a unibody, if that's the case, that could one reason, but others who have one or have seen one could comment if this is true or not. If not, then it could simply be a hitch type thing. I know that a person on this forum had a more than robust tow vehicle, yet when they got a slide out, they needed a new hitch since the factory hitch was not strong enough to handle the added hitch loads of a slide out. In this particular case, with a 113" wheelbase (if I read it correctly), perhaps they designed it in the drivetrain correctly, but listed the lower hitch weight as a way of saying if the axle config on the trailer is such that it takes most of the 7700lbs your in good shape, but that would clearly buck the status quo of 10-15%....then again, what do you expect from the English.
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Old 06-27-2005, 09:16 AM   #16
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Actually I don´t know how this could happen, but 770lbs Hitchweight is way to high for a LR3.

The specs are based on the european regulations. Trailerweights are allowed upto a max of 3500kg (7700 lbs) and overhere the tounge weight is not 10% to 15% its more 5%. Most European car manufacturers have a max. hitchweight of 150kg (330lbs) or less overhere. The only one I found upto now is Landrover with their 250kg (550lbs) hitchweight.

Toungeweight in Europe is often much less then in the US, due to a totally different axle position on the trailer, overhere the axles are nearly in the middle of the trailer, why? Don´t ask me, maybe because of the less toungweight!?

I would guess that nearly 90% of the trailers have a toungeweight between 75kg and 100 kg (165 lbs to 220 lbs)

BTW Towing speed is limited to 80km/h (48 m/h) same speedlimit for the trucks. Only a few trailers are allowed to go faster (100 km/h or 62 m/h) depending on the TV and the Trailer.

Just my .02 Cents

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Old 06-27-2005, 09:36 AM   #17
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Land Rover LR3 towing story

There still seems to be some question about the brief story I posted about this lady's bad experience towing with the LR3.
She told me that she had bought the Airstream and was looking for a tow vehicle. She saw the LR3 and liked it. She then went to Land Rover and asked them if this LR3 was suitable to tow a 25CCD and showed them the specs. The reputation of salesmen aside she asked LR sales if the LR3 could tow this trailer. I also had difficulty finding the tongue weight spec for an LR3 but it is my opinion that when someone asks about this there should be an easier way to find out what a vehicle can tow. As a woman she did what she assumed to be best. All the suggestions I read assume that the salesperson will sell anything. So be it, this is where there should be a standard by which a consumer can "easily" determine that a trailer with such and such specs can or can not be safely pulled by whichever SUV is chosen. Personally I did not find many competent salespeople when I went looking for a tow vehicle for my first Airstream the 28CCD. It took me several weeks to settle on buying a GMC 2500 4X4 Duramax.
The LR3 hitch system is still not clear to me as I've not seen one. She described to me that the hitch ball carrier (sorry I've not got the correct terminology) has the ball, the safety chains and emergency brake cable attached to it. It seemingly locks into place, there does not seem to be a pin like on a reguler class IV hitch. Not the best design.
The lady did not want to tow the trailer, for obvious reasons, with the LR3. She asked Land Rover to lend her a Range Rover which has a heavier hitch.
She was trying to solve the problem of being in Texas and wanting to tow the Airstream to Reno. Land Rover would not help her and she ended up renting (very, very hard to find) a tow vehicle for a 7000 lb trailer. She was very resourceful and found a Dodge truck in Lubbock which she has to return to Lubbock from Reno. Quite expensive!
Does not read like your ideal vacation trip with your 8 year old daughter.
Does the average person really need to check everything out to the last tiny detail? Where is that person who wants to go RVing in a nice Airstream supposed to go to get just basic info on what can and will tow her trailer.
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Old 06-27-2005, 09:52 AM   #18
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Quote:
Does the average person really need to check everything out to the last tiny detail?
Yep, when lives are on the line. Traveling by motor vehicle is inherently dangerous - without a trailer.

Quote:
Where is that person who wants to go RVing in a nice Airstream supposed to go to get just basic info on what can and will tow her trailer.
The resources are virtually endless. Try here, for instance. And, the internet is chocked full of forums and reference materials. The lady with the LR3 could have ascertained the limits of the TV very easily with a few minutes of research. She should never have towed a 25' with it.

But, that's all water under the bridge now. This was a bad experience resulting from bad information. I hope we don't lose her as an Airstreamer!

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Old 06-27-2005, 10:15 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reventlow
Does the average person really need to check everything out to the last tiny detail? Where is that person who wants to go RVing in a nice Airstream supposed to go to get just basic info on what can and will tow her trailer.
As Xray said, you better believe it and he's right, there are lots of sources on the web. I however would not call this situation a small detail, it's a fairly large one.

In a simialr situation, say, a doctor's info on needed work, I don't typically go under the knife without doing a bit of research and/or getting a few other opinions until I fully understand what I'm getting into, but that's just me, I'm sure lots of folks just do what the first person says is right. In this case, I feel she was very lucky, because it could have been far worse than a few bucks to rent a Dodge, a few busted hitches and a flatbed to the LR dealer.

I suppose I'd consider this a learning exp for her, but send here here and folks here will take great care of her and point her in the correct direction!
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Old 06-27-2005, 10:36 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reventlow
The LR3 hitch system is still not clear to me as I've not seen one. She described to me that the hitch ball carrier (sorry I've not got the correct terminology) has the ball, the safety chains and emergency brake cable attached to it. It seemingly locks into place, there does not seem to be a pin like on a reguler class IV hitch. Not the best
design.
It should look like this one... Taken from Land Rover Homepage. It is a detachable Version, so maybe that caused the failure??

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Old 06-27-2005, 10:41 AM   #21
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That picture explains a lot. Now I can see where the failure was.
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Old 06-27-2005, 10:46 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reventlow
..... Where is that person who wants to go RVing in a nice Airstream supposed to go to get just basic info on what can and will tow her trailer.

Try here:

http://www.trailerlife.com/output.cfm?id=962029

"Trailer Life" - then double-click on "Official 2005 Tow Ratings"

BTW, the chart indicates a max trailer weight of 5,500 lbs for the Land Rover 3 - previous years indicated two ratings - one for "high range", and one for "low range"....can't imagine doing much OTR (Over The Road) towing in "low range".
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Old 06-27-2005, 10:50 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pschoerrn
It should look like this one... Taken from Land Rover Homepage. It is a detachable Version, so maybe that caused the failure?
It would take a LOT of convincing on the part of the sales department for me to accept that to tow anything of any significant weight. Plus, I would want it in writing that it would do as they promised. Obviously, it wouldn't. Can the lady that has the Land Rover return it, get her money back, and go buy something more suitable for towing? Such as, a full-size pickup or van, or SUV?
If the truck won't work for what she needs it for, it isn't worth the $60,000 or so she paid for it. For that kind of money, she could get a lot of american iron.
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Old 06-27-2005, 11:30 AM   #24
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Thanks for the pics...I had never seen that before and as others have said....it's pretty clear now that we've seen it. I hope she'll be able to trade it in or get her $$$ back, cause the issue won't go away until she gets a tow vehicle that is rated correctly for the load she wants..........
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Old 06-27-2005, 01:12 PM   #25
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This thread makes me a little sad. We in England are very proud of our LandRovers. I have been driving them for 40 years, and I have owned a LandRover Discovery for the last 15 years. They are superb for their intended purpose, which is off-road in extreme conditions. However, I wouldn't use one to tow the skin off a rice pudding. I use mine to haul loads of about 1000 pounds. There is no substitute for weight, frame rigidity, long wheel-base and torque IMHO, when it comes to towing. I have tried towing a Jeep Cherokee with it's recommended maximum 5000 pounds towing load. White knuckles. I studied this forum, and purchased a 3/4 ton Dodge Ram 3/4 ton LWB 5.9 litre diesel quad cab pickup. Ladies and gentlemen, I salute the United States for many reasons, one of which is producing superb tow vehicles. Towing with this vehicle is a dream. I have a lot of sympathy for the lady. Nick.
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Old 06-27-2005, 01:53 PM   #26
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Land Rover now builds SUV's for the American market,so style and panache have become more important than true practacality. The Defender line still lives up to the original intent. But only one model , the D90 was imported to the U.S. . I know.... there were 500 numbered long wheel base Defenders imported in the 90's but the steel roll cage rusted like crazy and made them look top heavy.I've been into land Rovers since the late 60's. I have factory training as a Range Rover mechanic, worked for Land Rover North America and trained the sales teams here in the U.S. on the Discovery when it was introduced and went on to supervise construction of Land Rover Centres from Chicago to Tampa. The company was sold to BMW and then to Ford. Like everything else, things change. They are not the same company that they once were and their markets and products have changed. They make a lot of products that the U.S. never sees. Really tough trucks like the High Capacity Pick-up. The diesel crew cab is especially nice. A lot of car company's have rediscovered what made them so popularr , like Mini(BMW), the Beatle (VW) an the Mustang (Ford0 maybe Land Rover can do the same. They've been taking about a new Defender(original Land Rover) for the past couple of years.I hope it comes to the U.S.
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Old 07-10-2005, 10:39 PM   #27
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Just sold my 2003 Land Rover Discovery and bought a Nissan Titan with the full tow package to tow the little Bambi. The LR felt horrible towing anything over 2000 pounds. I love Land Rovers, but I don't think Disco's and the LR3s are not so great for towing. Just my opinion.

So far I love the Titan!
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Old 07-17-2005, 04:42 PM   #28
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I too got rid of an '03 LR Disco (which I loved for everything but towing) and replaced it with an '05 Titan Crew-Cab. My family and I just returned from a 2 week long trip to Yellowstone, which included almost 3200 miles of driving. The combination of 19' Bambi, Titan, Hensley Arrow, and Prodigy controller was probably overkill... but it was a completely relaxed and enjoyable experience.

We were travelling with some friends who have a 36' motorhome and I was watching them blow around during some fierce wind crossing I-90. We didn't feel anything. In fact, for most of the trip (unless going up steep-ish inclines), you couldn't really tell that there was anything behind us.

Whenever I see a Discovery, I think about how much I liked it... but as a tow vehicle, it just wasn't any good.
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