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Old 04-16-2018, 08:26 AM   #43
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The owners of over 8 million Ford Transits sold from the mid sixties until now would likely disagree with that claim. Transits came as vans, pickups, minibuses, etc. More vans than any other variant. I didn't know the market share, but Wikipedia says it has been the best selling light commercial vehicle in Europe for 40 years.
I am thinking Ford is an American company that went to Europe w/American engineering ideas to build these vehicles. I am talking "pick up trucks". Apples to Apples not Apples to Oranges..........

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Old 04-16-2018, 08:32 AM   #44
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Me bad, FULL SIZE PICK UP TRUCKS, not 1/2 scale vehicles.

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Old 04-16-2018, 08:37 PM   #45
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Why would you buy something that you have to call someone to “work their magic” in order to force the vehicle to tow what you want?
Absolutely an SUV can tow. Absolutely is a more comfy ride but, it is no where near as suited to tow a 27’+ trailer the way a 3/4+ ton truck is!

We bought primarily for towing but use daily a Ram 2500 w/diesel.

I have towed w/ SUV, 1/2 ton, Suburban both 1/2 and 3/4 ton, 3/4 and 1ton. I have found the 3/4 fits our needs best while tows superior to all.

It’s about YOUR needs and safety. IMO forcing a vehicle to tow what you want is never the safest endeavor.
Your truck needs some of the same magic. Like all the others of its class, it needs a lowered suspension, better tires & shock absorbers, better anti-roll bars, and a rear Panhard Rod. Rack & pinion steering with independent front suspension. What the factory did not give it or no longer offered after a model change. It also needs hitch receiver reinforcement. Every one of these changes will show a remarkable improvement. It would then be closer to “designed for towing”.

Yet it would remain the worst handling, braking and steering vehicle by design to hook to a trailer of this sort.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:04 PM   #46
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The only problem I see with using a Cayenne, or similar vehicle, is the availability of places that can work on them. I owned a Porsche repair shop for 40 years and we had several customers tow race car trailers all over the country with Cayennes. They are very capable tow vehicles with all but the base motor, but just don't have a breakdown out in the sticks. With a Ford, Chevy or Ram you have a much better chance of finding repairs. With an import, not so much.

I love my 2500 and use it as a daily driver when not towing.
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Old 04-17-2018, 08:19 AM   #47
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I was able to use a non-Dodge roadside truck repair facility to get my Cummins worked on one time. Might not have that capability with my Mercedes diesel.
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Old 04-17-2018, 09:45 AM   #48
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Have you actually compared the brake performance of your Cayenne to a truck? Your Cayenne likely has larger rotors with far more braking force than most 3/4 ton trucks.

Also, let’s not forget that this isn’t a full time TV that does nothing else. You give up a lot of “safety” when driving a truck every day. Question is do you really gain that much when towing, if you are operating within the window of specifications engineered by Porsche?

While the truck *may* have more horsepower and/or torque, it is also dealing with a higher load (heavier entity chassis and more drag). So you should compare the power output for combined GVW of the TV and TT. You might find that you are chasing an idea of “better tow vehicle” and not an actual thing.
While I may not agree with your opinions about brakes and GCVW, I can't imagine how you can say that "you give up a lot of safety when driving a truck everyday". I have personal experience to the contrary.

And I DO gain a lot when towing with a 3/4 ton PU. And I don't have to 'operate within the window of specifications engineered by Porsche".

I happen to like Porsche vehicles: just not as my primary tow vehicle.
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Old 04-17-2018, 09:50 AM   #49
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The only problem I see with using a Cayenne, or similar vehicle, is the availability of places that can work on them. I owned a Porsche repair shop for 40 years and we had several customers tow race car trailers all over the country with Cayennes. They are very capable tow vehicles with all but the base motor, but just don't have a breakdown out in the sticks. With a Ford, Chevy or Ram you have a much better chance of finding repairs. With an import, not so much.

I love my 2500 and use it as a daily driver when not towing.
I would certainly add Toyota to the mix, as a brand that has an extensive service network, along with capable vehicles able to tow any AS available.

And we all know that Toyota reputation for reliability. In other countries, a well known saying is that "XXX will get you into the bush, but a Toyota will get you there and back."
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Old 04-17-2018, 11:04 AM   #50
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I currently tow my 25' International with a 2017 Porsche Cayenne with factory tow package.

I've spent the better part of the month doing research on trucks and what I found there is that there is also a LOT of people who are disillusioned as to what their truck can pull. Since this truck would have to be a long-term investment, I want to ensure that if I want to move up to a 30' Classic that I am adequately sized.

Here is the questions:

* For the big truck owners: Do you find the big truck to be a PIA in backing your Airstream into camp spots? (My little SUV makes it super easy)

* Any former SUV TV owners have anything to add?

* Anyone buy a truck just to tow with?

* Are there any better resources for towing with SUVs? I would like to know if I'm alone in my worries about the transmission, brakes, radiator, etc.


Thoughts?
First off, the 25' Airstreams have the heaviest hitch weight which will exceed the 770lbs of your Cayenne. You need to weigh your trailer, preferably with a hitch weight scale when fully loaded. The weight will exceed the published weight by 100-300 lbs.

I towed a 25 with a Touareg V10 twin turbo Diesel which did fine up and down the mountains. Trouble was the payload. Had to carry gear loaded in the back of the trailer to help offset hitch weight. And I only used the Touareg for short trips where I would go 4 wheeling and thus traveled light.

Ended up buying an Ecoboost F150 for hauling gear for longer trips. But even then, and after upgrading to 27' AS, the Ford would heat up on the climbs and heat the brakes on the downgrade.

So now I have a Chevy 2500 Duramax. It's as easy to drive and park has the Ford, but it goes up and down steep grades without worry and can carry the loads the Touareg couldn't. A lot of vehicles can tow on flat land, but in the mountains, heat, payload and brakes become a weak point. If you plan to go bigger, then plan to match with a bigger TV.
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Old 04-17-2018, 11:19 AM   #51
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The OP’s original concern had a lot to do with downhill braking.

Have you really checked and detailed your trailers brakes to confirm that they are contributing? I like to check brake temps with an IR temp gun. Cold drums aren’t brakes after braking runs.

Airstream published ads in the magazine claiming that disc brakes reduced stopping distances by 47%.

See Dan’s recent brake conversion thread to discs.

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Old 04-17-2018, 11:25 AM   #52
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While I may not agree with your opinions about brakes and GCVW, I can't imagine how you can say that "you give up a lot of safety when driving a truck everyday". I have personal experience to the contrary.

And I DO gain a lot when towing with a 3/4 ton PU. And I don't have to 'operate within the window of specifications engineered by Porsche".

I happen to like Porsche vehicles: just not as my primary tow vehicle.
We're often talking past each other in regards to safety.

There's accident avoidance safety, and then there's crash safety.

Trucks are not known for their handling or braking. Andy has proven that in terms of agility under tow, there is no better than a Porsche Cayenne.

Yet if an impact were inevitable, I'd like to be in the vehicle with larger mass and bones.

So how to walk this balance of accident avoidance vs crash safety? Perhaps a bit of both might be prudent?

On that note, reminder to tune-up your trailers brakes, and make sure the brake gain is set appropriately. Bonus braking vid.
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Old 04-18-2018, 02:27 PM   #53
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I was able to use a non-Dodge roadside truck repair facility to get my Cummins worked on one time. Might not have that capability with my Mercedes diesel.
Check the number of Freightliner dealers nationwide.
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Old 04-18-2018, 02:43 PM   #54
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We're often talking past each other in regards to safety.

There's accident avoidance safety, and then there's crash safety.

Trucks are not known for their handling or braking. Andy has proven that in terms of agility under tow, there is no better than a Porsche Cayenne.

Yet if an impact were inevitable, I'd like to be in the vehicle with larger mass and bones.

So how to walk this balance of accident avoidance vs crash safety? Perhaps a bit of both might be prudent?

On that note, reminder to tune-up your trailers brakes, and make sure the brake gain is set appropriately. Bonus braking vid.
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Old 04-18-2018, 04:01 PM   #55
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Surviving a crash, or surviving uninjured?

Too much goes into crash types to be definitive. For practicality sake, a 4000-lb 120” wb sedan is where weight, size and design peak.

You could always try this 19,400-lb Kenworth. If mass is the thing. But “survivability” is hemmed by size. Same for likelihood of injury. It’s unstable as hell. A pickup on steroids. A gigantic straight axle SUV.

What’s wanted is “stability”. Stays upright. Stays lane-centered. Can’t meet those two criterion, one is heading down wrong path.

Take it for granted that (around here) “safety” equates with stability and the rest falls into place.

Why your misunderstanding of greater strength of unibody versus BOF has you confused. That “strength” means lower mass, but far better design in stability. Which ALWAYS trumps mass in importance.

The 4800-lb unit body candidate I’d back with the same drivetrain as your 5600-lb candidate do the same job (towing an Airstream; a Charger versus a Ram 1500) will perform better in every measure.

Put solo first. Misunderstand that, and miss the rest. You’ll wind up arguing fuel aromas and color schemes like the rest around here.

.
You must be a modern day da Vinci with all your unique and enlightened thoughts. I’m kind of only classically trained so I haven’t bought into these newfangled ideas yet.

I have a big family so prefer a big SUV. I put big tires on it because I figure it’s safer to monster truck over the other guy in case I have an accident. You know, safer on top. And if the SUV has to go over, then so does the Airstream, so I lifted that 3”. I think I’ll be safe. But thank you for looking out.
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Old 04-18-2018, 04:41 PM   #56
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I believe he claims that Porsche Cayenne and BMW X5 are champs, then is the rest.

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(...) Andy has proven that in terms of agility under tow, there is no better than a Porsche Cayenne.

(...)
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