Jeep Liberty towing question..

[safari05-25]

Anyone have an opinion on Jeep Liberty 2.8 liter turbo diesel with 295 lbs of turque at 1800 rpm, how do think it would do towing 19 or 20' safari or CCD?It has 5 speed automatic with tow package rated for 5000 lbs. This has as much turque as a V-8. Give me some of your opinions out there.....

[CanoeStream]

Hello Stonecrest2 --- I hope you feel welcome to the Forums in spite of my answer. Every member here (and moderators are Airstream users first!) want to assist in a safe and happy experience for you. Please refer to my post in reply to a Liberty question yesterday: http://www.airforums.com/forum...9ft-24398.html

Regardless of powerplant, every Jeep Liberty is limited to 1150# payload. The wheelbase is perilously short to control something as big as an Airstream. Judging from a close friend's experiences with a seemingly big Toyota Highlander and a large Coleman (now Fleetwood) pop-up camper, I'd say the Liberty would reach its maximum with rather small campers. Tow rating for 5000# is relatively meaningless. Please pay attention to my analysis in the above thread and it will help you in choosing a good tow vehicle.

Quality medical studies rely on a peer-review system to decide if any treatment is valid. Airstream Forums exposes my reply to the broadest critique possible. It still comes down to this (and this is not C.Y.A. lawyer talk) -- no responsible person would ever want you driving a vehicle over its load capacity, whether you were pulling a trailer or not. And pulling a trailer will only make the whole situation so much more dangerous! Your profile lists a different vehicle. I would use a good load capacity analysis on any TV you might consider. Thank you!

[scottanlily]

Hello canoe stream , I agree on the liberty and the highlander as well as
other suv styled vehicals for towing an airstream .You need a tv that has
some strength and stamina as in a rig that has the ability to control the
whole tv trailer combo in general ,its not enough just to be able to pull
the trailer ,you need to control it ,stop it ,safely if possible ,I wish my
travelall got 20 mpg these days ,but I would not trade it as far as towing
is concerned , If you go back in years most airstreams were towed with
travelalls, station wagons ,big cars ,f250 trucks .The smaller lighter bambis
and such could be towed with mid size vehicals ,they were much lighter by
thousands of pounds than today .The manafactures claims don't seem to
include how good the handling will be ,can it handle the trailer .They just
publish what it they say it can tow in # capacity only.

Scott

[lewster]

Originally Posted by scottanlily

Hello canoe stream , I agree on the liberty and the highlander as well as
other suv styled vehicals for towing an airstream .You need a tv that has
some strength and stamina as in a rig that has the ability to control the
whole tv trailer combo in general ,its not enough just to be able to pull
the trailer ,you need to control it ,stop it ,safely if possible ,I wish my
travelall got 20 mpg these days ,but I would not trade it as far as towing
is concerned , If you go back in years most airstreams were towed with
travelalls, station wagons ,big cars ,f250 trucks .The smaller lighter bambis
and such could be towed with mid size vehicals ,they were much lighter by
thousands of pounds than today .The manafactures claims don't seem to
include how good the handling will be ,can it handle the trailer .They just
publish what it they say it can tow in # capacity only.

Scott

I agree with your assumptions, but the new class of diesel engines do a fine job with limited HP and troque. My Sprinter van is rated at 155HP and and 245 Ft/LB torque. It had a GVW of 7800 lb for my cross-country trip and had a 5000lb tow rating. I did not weigh the 19CCD but I assume that it was around 4000lb as the trailer was not heaily loaded. The CGVW is 13,500 lb.

The combination did superbly on the trip, even while pulling 6% grades in NM, CO, UT and OR. My speed never dropped below 45 MPH and was generally 50+ thru most of the passes. All of this while getting 14-17 mpg. Of course, my vehicle payload capacity and 140" wheelbase make for a much more stable tow vehicle that a Liberty, but my point is that engine capacity should not be considered a first tier priority when towing.

[scottanlily]

Hey Lew ,

I agree on the diesel power ,you are right no, dissagreement .your sprinter
van has the SIZE that is needed and the brakes.Look at your avatar picture
there with your sprinter and airstream ,no doubt it can handle it is there?
possibly a bigger coach even .Id feel good about your setup no problem.

Scott

[lewster]

Maybe a bigger VINTAGE is in my future to stay within the weight rating. We'll have to see what comes along !

[Coloradobus]

Consumer Reports says the new Liberty Jeep diesel current for 2005-06 does not measure up in its performance and mileage as advertised. I test drove one and it wouldn't pull your hat off even as the saleman put the tranny into "sport mode."
Wait until Jeep markets the Mercedes 2.5 liter diesel in the Grand Cherokee or Commander, then go for it.

[henrydahm]

I gotta say that the mileage you would get with the liberty depends on if you drive it like a diesel - keep the rpms @ 1800 - 2000 and on the highway you will get btw 30 & 33 mpg - with out towing anything. Overall combined you will get 25 - 28mpg. Now mind you I almost always go the speed limit.

The question yesterday was what do I get towing my 3200# 24' Trade Wind - Highway I've gotten 23 - 24.

Now for the power - It has plenty of schputz to tow what I'm towing & up hills too. Oh and by the way, it IS made by the folks who make the diesels for Mercedes - MV Motori (sp) of Italy - and who are now partnered with Detroit Diesel.

Now for the sage advice about wheelbase. So far I have not had a problem with sway. I have a Reese friction sway system and will be getting the weight distribution bars when It gets done at Safford RV. What I have noticed is that big trucks (and sometmes I think they are messin with me) do push you / pull you when they blow by. I have taken to heart and mind the benefits of a longer wheelbase - I just can't squirt out 20 - 30 grand for a bigger tow vehicle right now and at this point I don't see a reason to. Maybe if I set out across the country & use the Tradewind for more than 40 days a year I'll change my tune. OR given time I'll realize the guys with monster TVs were spot on about the diesel Liberty being too short to be a suitable TV for my Tradewind. (What I covet is that Sprinter)

The Liberty diesel has a strong trans, fat brakes and good mileage. Driving at a reasonable speed and with due caution this TV is working out for me.

But despite it's length it is 1500 lbs lighter than a 19' CCD Bambi without options and that must be an important consideration for you. I believe that if you platz bikes, food, toys water, propane, tools, spare tire you will be pushing the outer limits of the Liberty's capabilities.

That is one reason why I didn't plunk down the 38k for the International CCD 19 footer. I found a wonderful 1961 Tradewind that suits my needs, is a great project, didn't cost an arm and leg and left some money in the cigar box for when and if I need to beef up my towing capability.

Whew - that was blah blablah blah long - but I'm on the night shift and I gotta do something with my spare moments

Henry

[campadk]

We're in the same boat with the Liberty. Love the Jeep! but not even going to try with an expected new 19ft Bambi. Jeeps of any sort have all got the by the pros on the forum.

Its hard to get the perfect tv right now... I've sure spend oodles of time reading up on posts by those with experience on here (thanks mucho!!!!) Best I am considering is a Tahoe with a 116" wheelbase, 5.3L v8 and towing capacity of 6500 lbs. Not easy to find anything used with other than a 3.42 axel though anywhere around here... This should put me in the 75% to 80% range of max rated towing capacity once figuring the loads.

Did want to get a Tahoe or Trailblazer but couldn't find anything that would do much more than the Liberty other than improve wheelbase.

Apparently at the same price point I could move to a used Avalanche... but man.. those are tanks to us!!

Heck my teardrop loaded is only about 1,100 lbs right now and it flys behind the Jeep!

Good luck in your tv search as well stonecrest2!

[safari05-25]

Read your email about your tradewind towed by your diesel Liberty, however...you said the Liberty was 1500 lbs lighter than the 19 CCD, I 'd like to know how you come up with that because. Liberty diesel weighs 4,296 lbs and the CCD Bambi 19' weighs 3,575 lbs...making the Bambi CCD weigh 721 lbs less than the Liberty dry. Please explain your thinking on these numbers. appreciate a reply...

[safari05-25]

I read your email looking for a Tahoe to tow your 19', the 19' weighs about 3600 lbs dry as you may know. My 30' rig weighs 3880 dry, and I tow it with a 96 Tahoe 4wheel... drive, 4 door, 3.73 rear with tow package. Shortly after I bought the Tahoe in 96 I was towing a 21' Hi-Lo funlite in Poconos on a back road suddenly I was climbing this steep hill, luckily it wasn't too long of a hill. And....the tranny started to over heat,luckily no damage.
In the year 2000 we had this other 30' rig and headed across southern Pa. westbound, on one of the main interstate roads and the truck did fine as long as you speed up before you approach the hill. I must let you know that the 1995 Vortec engine only had 200 hp, in 96 they upped it to 250 hp, I don't know what the torque rating is, but..it can't be that great. Personally I would never buy another Chevy, for example..even though my truck is a 96, I found out after years of ownership that the antiquated steering pump system dates back to 1960. And... I don't know what Chevy uses for drive shaft seals for the 4-wheel drive system,and to the rear drive shaft differential. Because they all leaked on me when they had very low mileage.I just drove a new Dodge truck, that's the worse thing I ever drove... Why don't you wait till early 07 when the new full size Toyota truck comes out, much smoother, quieter, plenty of power and well designed. Chevy also had many recalls and mechanical problem and electrical problems.

[campadk]

Hi stonecrest2,

I'm looking at a 2005 Tahoe which I just speced out at 7500 lb towing capacity so pulling even a loaded 19ft with 3 people and gear still puts us well below 75%. We could even get by without the transmission cooler (ok according to the Chevy trailering guide, if your towing under 5,000 lbs).

For us most of our trips will be 3 hours or else. Out main route to where we will be camping most of the times has a few hills.. only one or two long hills (Ontario plus northern New York.. ie the Adirondacks). The Tahoe I am looking at is a 2005 with 295 HP (Vortec 5.3 V8 with 335 lbs of torgue) and rated at 7500 lbs tow capacity (originally thought it was 6500 lbs but I was wrong). So it should be more than sufficient. Don't plan on major hauls, or even Interstate for that matter.. yes maybe the odd hill but I can't see going to some big tank for the odd time my tv might have to work for a minute or two.

Sounds like your 97 Tahoe might have had a v6 in it.

As far as waiting for a new 07 Toyota.. or anything else new for that matter... I just can't justify the extra $20K or so to buy the latest greatest new tv. IF I happen to have to repair my used vehicle.. well $20K will go a llloooonnngg way. Personally I have had great success with all my vehicles.. GM's, Chevy, Chrysler, and Jeep. Ok so I avoid Ford Personally I find Toyotas are just soooo expense and not as 'user friendly' as anything North American.. thats just my personal preference/experience though.

According to the GM trailering brochure, I should be alright without a transmission cooler up to 5,000 lbs... I might do without for now... can't be much cost to add though for the extra insurance.

Definately will have something like a dual cam reese for w/d / sway control.

[myoung]

Stonecrest2,

Just a thought. If you like the Jeep but are concerned about it's towing capacity, why not consider another Daimler-Chrysler product namely the Dodge Durango SUV. With the gasoline-powered 5.7 liter Hemi, you would have about 340 hp and 370 foot-pounds of torque, more than enough for towing a 25-foot Safari. That's our experience.

Also, just got back from a trip of about 600 miles and averaged 13.2 mpg over some fairly steep and challenging terrain in 100+ degree heat. Not too shabby, IMHO.

[JimGolden]

I drove my '86 Suburban over 150,000 miles and never had a bit of trouble other than having to replace a starter. And it cost $75 and was attached by two bolts. I changed it out, never having done it before, in 45 minutes.

I drive a '94 Cavalier 4-cylinder as my work commuter (I commute 90 miles round trip per day) and it has 172,000 on the clock, runs just fine.

Also have a Dodge with the Cummins that I'd put up against any truck. In two years, I've done nothing but change the oil and put fuel in it. The Cummins pulls my heavily loaded 31 footer like it's not back there.

Just curious what you didn't like about the Dodge? I think mine drives great. It'll burn the tires off, chirp them shifting from 1st to 2nd, and it'll give me over 20mpg on the highway, 21 if I keep it reasonable on the speed. Has a nice interior, decent stereo; it's all I want in a truck. Mainly though, I turn the key and it goes and goes. That's #1 on my list.

I've done a lot of work on my friend's Nissan. Can't speak for the Toyotas. I know a lot of folks swear by them, but their parts are outrageous.

What I've seen is that if you maintain your vehicle properly, about any of them will last.

I run Mobil 1 synthetic in all our cars. Use the Valvoline oil recommended by Cummins for the Dodge. So far so good.

[safari05-25]

Seeings how your looking at an 05 with about 10 yrs gone by since I bought my 96 maybe...chevy may have corrected alot of their antiquated problems. It's kind of ashame you have to buy this gas hog just to tow your little 19 ftr 3 hours down the road, that 335 lbs of torque it has is only 40 lbs higher than the 4 banger turbo diesel in the Liberty. By now chevy should have designed V- 8's to produce 5 and 600 lbs torque. I don't consider 335 much for V-8, in the 21st century standards for engines. Chevy is very slow in design change in their vehicles, and this is one of the contributing factors to why their having so many problems with their sales today. No my 96 Tahoe is not a V-6, v-6 was in the astro van, and it only had 195 hp.

[campadk]

I hear yah.. but if I can upgrade from my current liberty for about $6K (my estimates) I'll be happy for a few years. Other options are just too much $$$'s. Most of our miles are highway too so I can live with a bit less mpg.

[AZstreamin]

I must contribute 2 more cents because I continue to see a recipe for disaster with this Liberty tow vehicle debate....

ask 4 questions:

Is it worth the risk?
Is it worth the time to figure it out the right way?
Is the added expense of the right tow vehicle worth it?
Is it worth the potential outcome if something went terribly wrong?

If you want an 'outside the forums' opinion read this RV Towing guide.. I have referenced it in a previous post and in my opinion the information is solid..

Pay particular attention to the wheelbase section (how long of a trailer).

I sold my Jeep Grand Cherokee and now own a F250, when it was purchased I didn't know what length of AS we would end up with, I just knew the Grand Cherokee (109 in wheel base) wouldn't work for the late model and heavy Airstreams.. I loved my Jeep it is the only vehicle I've ever missed after selling. I took it into more places where traction control pulled me out while 3 tires were spinning on rocks or mud or snow than I can count but it wasn't suitable for our current needs. You'll find the right solution just keep searching and asking questions. Read read read…read……
End of 2 cents....

Be safe......

[2airishuman]

as looped as i am,
i agree with az' all the way

lets try another approach to shopping
describe your needs,
towing ,fuel, space styling and so on..........

let folks comment on the ideal tv for a given trialer...........
the answers might surprise your, or guide your or give you a big laudh....

but it is a very helpful approach11


CHEERS
2AIR'

[AZstreamin]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

as looped as i am,
i agree with az' all the way

Thanks for coming out.

[henrydahm]

Stonecrest2,

I did not mean to imply that the bambi weighed more than the jeep . My 1961 Tradewind weighs 3200# & the Bambi 4500+. That's what I meant to say.

Henry

Shucks, now you guys got me looking at other TVs but I just bought the Jeep in December 05 - my WIFE needs a new truck - THAT'S the ticket!!!!!