Jeep Grand Cherokee CR Diesel

[Nicksut]

We have a 1996 21ft Sovereign which we've been towing with a 2004 F250 PU 6.0 L Powerstroke. (I just read a reference to problems with these early 6.0 L engines and would appreciate hearing more--I have had clogged injectors on two occasions now.) So anyway, we are considering switching our tow vehicle to a 2007 Jeep GC with the 3.0L common rail diesel.

Here are some specs: JGC tongue weight 725 (Soveriegn is ~500-600), tow capacity ~7200 (the Soverign weighs in at ~5.3K fully loaded), family size 4, dogs 1, towing terrain Colorado mtns.

I'd like to get the Jeep as it would also serve as an everyday vehicle, and I'm particularly keen to get a diesel. Any thoughts on whether this will do the job would be appreciated. My wife is also a little worried about the wheel base on the Jeep. Thanks for any help with this.

Cheers, Nick

[Tincrew]

Nick~

We had a Jeep GC Hemi when we got our 25'FB. It was OK by the numbers, but the wheel base is too short. Way too white knuckle to have fun time. I really, really loved my Jeep but traded it for Dodge 4x4 w/diesel-wonderful tv and better mpg all around. I'd love to someday get another Jeep, really want the diesel, don't think CA will let you buy one though.

Leslie

[moosetags]

Our son has an '06 Bambi. When he bought it, he had an '05 Jeep GC V-8. He towed the Bambi once on a 300 mile maiden voyage to our house. The towing experience absolutely scared the crap out of him. He went back to Tampa and traded the Jeep on an F-350 PSD.

[scottanlily]

Hello there Nicksut, Ford now has a reflash program for PS diesels that cycles the injectors for a minute or so after engine shutdown to keep the injector pintles from sticking or gumming up during cooldown ,you might want get that done ,as it could help solve your injector troubles .The 03 6.0 s had the most troubles . As for the Jeep ,no way ,its way to small and that little 3.0 will
be a joke compared to the 6.0 ford .The 3.0 is a 180 cubic inches ,where the 6.0 is close to a 390 cid .for a tow vehical ,dual purpouse most often is not practicle ,and you want saftey first and stability ,that come always with a larger more capable TV .going from your present ford with all that torque
to a little diesel would be quite a shock for you in terms of power .Id
forget about any rocky mountain towing ,that powerstroke just pulls up
those hills no sweat ,the 3.0 will never be capable of that no matter how
high the tow rating is .many folks put great effort into getting a under sized tow vehical to work ,but you would regret the loss of power and torque
you now enjoy.

Scott of scottanlily

[Motoman]

I believe that hitch setup is extremely important when towing with a shorter wheelbase vehicle like the Grand Cherokee but doable. We towed our 22' CCD with our 1996 4.0L Cherokee (not a Grand). It seemed a little light in the front and it was the way the dealer set up the Equalizer hitch. The rear of the jeep dropped a couple of inches and the front was a little higher than without the CCD connected. I went through all the setup for the Equalizer and ended with the front suspension dropping a little less that the back when hitched up. What a difference. We used it for trips to Joshua Tree and Death Valley National Parks; never felt out of control, any significant sway or being pushed around by passing semi's. We still have the Cherokee and are reconstructing a 1960 Traveler for more rustic and out of the way trips. We traded the 22' CCD on a 25' and pull it with a 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel.

If I already owned the diesel Grand Cherokee I would certainly try towing the Sovereign with it as we did with our Cherokee, we had no capital outlay to risk since it was paid for. However I don't know if I would purchase a new vehicle with a considerable capital outlay that might be uncomfortable or worse unsafe to tow with unless I was prepared to trade with a loss or buy another vehicle. Any chance you can rent a GC with a towing package, even if its gas powered and try towing the Soverign?

If you decide bigger I don't think you can go wrong with the 2500 Dodge Ram with the automatic and diesel. Towing (13-15 mpg) and unloaded (18-20 mpg) on the highway it will probably equal the mileage of the Grand Cherokee; it will certainly be less in town. I don't have to worry about that compromise here in California since I commute to work every day on my motorcycle. We have 31K on the Dodge, 25K has been towing the Airstreams.

[Nicksut]

Thanks for all the advice. When the engine is running fine, the F250 is a great TV and I suspect moving to a different setup would seem like a step down in safety and power. I have heard lots of good comments about the Cummins.

Regarding getting my injectors unstuck, I've put in an additive (BG something or other--"best product on the market" said the Napa man [at $50 a qt it should be good]) and have driven 40m or so and no luck yet. How long should I give it? And if it doesn't come unstuck, is this going to be covered by my 100K mile warranty on the Ford PS engine?

Thanks for your thoughts. Wish I knew more about all of this so I could contribute to this very helpful community. Cheers, Nick

[scottanlily]

well ,the BG is suppose to be good stuff ,one of the best products .you may have to go ahead and get the injectors worked on at Ford .since they had considerable trouble with these you should try to get it covered by your warranty ,really push for that .Ive replaced a few sets for customers and its a big job and expensive ,the computer reprogram you should have done ,Im
certain that is a warranty upgrade that should not cost you any money .
Id not put it off too long ,I think your injectors should be covered as well .
Id not mention the BG to the dealer ,they may try to make some stupid claim it made things worse in an effort to not replace them ,which is usually the
repair that is needed . As for towing with a base cherokee there motoman ,
your one guttsy guy Ill tell you , the vehical needs to be more than capable
of stopping your whole rig in the event of say ,your trailer brakes went out on a down hill grade .Those jeeps have little brakes ,not very robust and
even though manafacturers claim big tow ratings ,you don't get bigger brakes or heavier duty transmissions ,or rear axles ,the Dana 35 rear end is very
light duty as are the wheel bearings and such . The whole vehical overall
needs to be scrutinized to ensure it is built heavy duty enough to provide
safe towing .This is why you will hear many on the forums using bigger
tow vehicals ,suburbans ,pickups ,large vintage sedans or for me my
68 travelall by International harvester ,big heavy duty rig ,not great mileage
but thats secondary to what it does with regards to towing and stamina
and the secure feeling youve got somthing there that can take it .

Safe towing everyone

Scott of scottanlily

[rickandsandi]

A picture is worth a thousand words.



This photo is getting lots of forum time today!

[Nicksut]

Thanks again for all the advice. I'm off to the dealer tomorrow armed with some very helpful information. This is the Internet at its best. Sincerely appreciative, Nick

[scottanlily]

That is exactly what Im talking about and have posted on many times in the past ,many times the reponse was argumentative ,this tragic photo should be posted all around the forums to highlight this very real danger !!! everyone
using short wheelbase little SUVs need to see this photo .many will argue
it was the hitch and all of that ,but clearly its obviouse as to what is wrong.
thanks rickansandi for posting this very informative picture .

Scott of scottanlily

[Wayward]

Certainly wheelbase could have been all or part of what caused that accident - clearly something went wrong besides "a gust of wind". But what? From the information on eBay, that trailer is within the weight towing capacity of the Xterra - doesn't mean it will work. Towing setup and driving are more complicated than wheelbase, but is it rocket science?

OEM towing capacity is too simplistic and common sense will go a LONG way. But it still seems many of us are on our own regarding towing guidelines. Without sensiible guidellines, photos like this, often scare people off or leave us with the conclusion that we all need a 1-ton, 150" diesel to tow a 4 or 5 thousand pound Airstream.

Somewhere in this forum I recall an insurance professional mention that if he has all the information about the TV (like wheelbase, type of hitch, etc), trailer (length, weight, etc) and road conditions (grade, wind, trucks), that he could, with a high degree of certainty, determine the cause of the accident. Is that sort of accident analysis data available anywhere in the form of guidelines to help us chose and set up our tow rigs?

[2dabeach]

Nicksut

The Jeep Grand Cherokee has a payload capacity of 1,000 lbs (pasengers & cargo). If your tongue weight is 725 lbs that leaves you 275 lbs capacity for your family of 4 persons, 1 dog, and misc gear you throw in the Jeep.

[steelbird312]

There is a lot of info concerning towing, 'guidelines' that are available and in the hands of RV'ers that is never, ever read. Owners manuals, towing magizines, club rags, etc. Attending a large rally, or even a walk through the local campground will reveal underinflated tires, towing with "P" rated tires, bald tires, too much tongue weight, etc. Then you have the new RV'er that think if it is hooked to the tow vehicle, that is all that matters. What about the travel trailers that are pulled past you running 70mph? and maybe during a rain event, or heavy traffic? or through rush hour traffic with a 40' cushion for safety?
On and on the thoughts go. One can lead a horse to water.......
Guidelines are everywhere, but one cannot force another to read them, or abide by them.
I was not the least amused when I heard that a caravan of Airstreamers had an accident coming to Perry for the International this year, and, due to lack of sufficient safety spacing, speed, attentiveness, etc, one actually rearended another!
I agree with your comment on common sense, however, so few have or at least so few display common sense anymore.
Oh, by the way, I vote for a substantial tow vehicle.

[ROBERT CROSS]

[quote=Nicksut]We have a 1996 21ft Sovereign which we've been towing with a 2004 F250 PU 6.0 L Powerstroke. (I just read a reference to problems with these early 6.0 L engines and would appreciate hearing more--I have had clogged injectors on two occasions now.) So anyway, we are considering switching our tow vehicle to a 2007 Jeep GC with the 3.0L common rail diesel.

Here are some specs: JGC tongue weight 725 (Soveriegn is ~500-600), tow capacity ~7200 (the Soverign weighs in at ~5.3K fully loaded), family size 4, dogs 1, towing terrain Colorado mtns.

I'd like to get the Jeep as it would also serve as an everyday vehicle, and I'm particularly keen to get a diesel. Any thoughts on whether this will do the job would be appreciated. My wife is also a little worried about the wheel base on the Jeep. Thanks for any help with this.


Even our Grand Wagoneer was TOO short... and the old Safari was a lot lighter than the Classic.

Better to have more than you need....than need more than you have.

[scottanlily]

One main thing that give a non sway feeling of the short wheelbase vehicals
is the rear axle being located very close to the rear of the vehical ,that
in iself does not allow alot of sway motion , the toregues and porsche vehical
and others have this design ,like the Jeep does .This gives that false sense of security and a good sense cause it doesn't sway ,but then its more likely to become a rag doll thrown around such as the photo shows .That trailer is too big for the nissan and many others ,but we are guided by the manafactures who claim ,well it can tow 7000 pounds ,isn't that great .no other thought
is given most of the time ,just that it can pull tons of weight .many vehicals
can tow a big trailer down the freeway at 55 mph ,its all the other road hazards ,crowded roads ,road rage people ,construction zones ,grades and sudden manuevers that will get you in the end .The laws of physics just
don't change ,even if the vehical manafacture claims somthing that isn't true.
I have a keen perspective as I get to see these vehicals in my line of work
know the brake size and transmission capabilities ,axle and bearing sizes
so on and so forth .Im not advocating a one ton diesel ,a long wheelbase
suburban or a 4 door f250 would work also .The picture and the smashed up nissan speak volumes .

Scott of scottanliy

[slowmover]

The short wheelbase is the strongest drawback (along with the attendant high center of gravity). The best site to look over vehicle safety is this one; use it to compare to the trucks:

http://www.informedforlife.org/

Play with the features to see how you think about the trade-offs of the GC Jeep versus a full-size pickup (or similar) as you'll be using it more miles solo than not.

JEEP sez that the Overland/diesel can tow over 7,000-lbs. I imagine the engine can (nice numbers), but the DANA 44 axle isn't a super strong piece (such as the DANA 60), but it ought, and the Jeep ought, to be able to handle something of a decent size, reasonably. Tongue weight :: payload capacity will be a limiting factor.

If you'll search here for threads by INLAND RV CTR (Andy) you'll see his discussions on proper rigging. By those, I wouldn't consider "band-aids" of
adding spring capacity.

Here's a handy travel trailer towing calculator that you can plug numbers into to do some figuring:

http://changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-...eight-tt.shtml

I imagine that Andy Thompson of CAN AM RV could get you set up. He's got folks out there pulling Airstreams with all sorts of tow vehicles.

[slowmover]

Here's a similar set-up from RV.NET:

Towing with our Liberty CRD

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...d/20350004.cfm

Or, (much more interesting to my mind)

Towing with a Chrysler 300C

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...6.cfm#20381196

[Bigdaddy_2]

Check out this site. There is a wealth of knowledge about Ford 6.0 l diesels under that heading. TheDieselStop.Com Forums - Powered by UBB.threads™

If you are under 100k miles on the engine, you should be covered by the engine waranty. Good luck

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by moosetags

Our son has an '06 Bambi. When he bought it, he had an '05 Jeep GC V-8. He towed the Bambi once on a 300 mile maiden voyage to our house. The towing experience absolutely scared the crap out of him. He went back to Tampa and traded the Jeep on an F-350 PSD.

Many would suspect this is a classic example of someone who didn't have there combination set up optimally.

Why?

We all know the Airstream, including tha Bambi is one of the best towing TT built.

We also know the Jeep GC is one of the best tow vehicles "in its class".

A few years ago Trailer Life magazine did a towing test of the Jeep GC and a 25' SOB Sportsman TT. They raved about how well the Jeep handled the 25' Sportsman and gave it the stamp of approval.

[jimmickle]

I guess that it is time to put in a counter opinion. I towed a 2002 25 ft Safari that weighed almost 6500# loaded with a 1999 Grand Cherokee Limited V-8 and loved the way it handled and drove, both empty and towing. It was equipped with the factory towing package. The original P rated OE tires were terrible, so I replaced them with BFG LT tires, load range D. The hitch was a properly adjusted Reese dual cam. Being a limited, the Jeep had full time all wheel drive, which may have helped. I could not have been more pleased with the set-up. We had it for five years before trading for a 2000 30 ft land yacht motorhome.

Good luck on your decision.

Jim