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Old 01-23-2012, 05:26 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
I understand. What I am saying is, add on a compressor, air lines, electricals to run the compressor and a switch.... a lot to go wrong. I get that the robustness is a function of the engineering, materials and cost, but, I am not sold on the complexity over a simple well designed mechanical system.
A well designed mechanical system is good but it cannot be deactivated at will. Try to turn a corner with a locked front differential, it cannot be done. Thus you can only use a mechanical locker on the rear differential only if the vehicle is used for on road purposes. The system is really quite simple.
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:14 PM   #86
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Most big 4x4 trucks don't have true CV joints in the front drive shafts. As the angle increases during a turn the RPM of the wheel is not constant and will cause bucking in the front end even when the rear wheels are not involved. Also as the guy in the last post mentioned the front and rear wheels don't run at the same speed during a turn.

AWD vehicles have true CV joints on all axels and something to decouple the front and rear wheels so they can operate independently. Subaru comes to mind here and it would be cool if they made something big enough to tow with. Also a Subaru is not 3 ft off the ground. Any place you find snow you will find Subarus and they will run circles around 4x4 trucks.

Perry

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Originally Posted by w7ts View Post
My truck has a front differential, so why does it buck when turning in 4WD on a dry surface?

It's a Dodge, but if I remember correctly other non full time 4WD Vehicles I have owned did the same thing.

Ken
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:29 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by perryg114 View Post
Most big 4x4 trucks don't have true CV joints in the front drive shafts. As the angle increases during a turn the RPM of the wheel is not constant and will cause bucking in the front end even when the rear wheels are not involved. Also as the guy in the last post mentioned the front and rear wheels don't run at the same speed during a turn.

AWD vehicles have true CV joints on all axels and something to decouple the front and rear wheels so they can operate independently. Subaru comes to mind here and it would be cool if they made something big enough to tow with. Also a Subaru is not 3 ft off the ground. Any place you find snow you will find Subarus and they will run circles around 4x4 trucks.

Perry
Thanks Perry,
We have both a 2011 Outback and a big 4x4 truck.
We have not yet this year had enough snow depth to test your "run circles around" claim however.
For that matter I have not tried to tow the Airstream with the Subaru either. Just plain Lazy I guess.

Ken
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Old 01-23-2012, 10:05 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w7ts

Thanks Perry,
We have both a 2011 Outback and a big 4x4 truck.
We have not yet this year had enough snow depth to test your "run circles around" claim however.
For that matter I have not tried to tow the Airstream with the Subaru either. Just plain Lazy I guess.

Ken
I can confirm that the Outback with its AWD will positively run the circles. We have one and it is really amazing in snow. And they are still low enough to the ground that I can get in it. BTW I get over 30 mpg on the highway which is great for AWD.
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Old 01-23-2012, 10:27 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w7ts View Post
My truck has a front differential, so why does it buck when turning in 4WD on a dry surface?

It's a Dodge, but if I remember correctly other non full time 4WD Vehicles I have owned did the same thing.

Ken
The "bucking" is due to different turning circles. A classic $x$ (4X4...) has 1 front and 1 rear tire forced into a track...when you get stuck, 1 front AND 1 rear will be spinning..in essence, they are locked together...the "CV joint won't buck" theory doesn't take into account that CV joints are typically used on vehicles with a center diff...that allows the front and rear to track seperately.

My '99 cherokee bucks...it has a part time 4wd, thus a locked transfer case...a 'full time 4x4 cherokee' has a center diff...a center diff, non-bucking, will be easier to get stuck since it will split the torque to the front OR the rear...effectively making the 4wd a 1wd...once the limited slip clutches burn out...
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Old 01-23-2012, 11:57 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Topshelf View Post
A well designed mechanical system is good but it cannot be deactivated at will. Try to turn a corner with a locked front differential, it cannot be done. Thus you can only use a mechanical locker on the rear differential only if the vehicle is used for on road purposes. The system is really quite simple.
Actually, yes it can. This conversation has suddenly gone way south of factual. I'm bowing out, before it gets ugly. Not trying to be nasty, but misinformation is starting to come out.
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Old 01-24-2012, 12:50 AM   #91
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I wouldn't leave home without it...(4x4)...

OK, so many won't need 4x4 very often - but when you do, it can save your a$$...!

We do lot's of boonedocking, and so run lots of dirt trails in the TV alone, so 4x4 gets it's share of a work out!

If you're in snow country - 4x4 can mean making it over the hill, or else staying at home with 4x2, or using chains...

Sure, 4x4 rigs don't usually have as smooth 'ride' as 4x2's - BUT most 4x4's have huskier frame/drive components...

If you ever use your TV to launch a boat at one of those slippery boat ramps, you'll be glad you have 4x4 to help you crawl up to dry land again!

Avoid the potholes of life along the trail out there!
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Old 01-24-2012, 12:57 AM   #92
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Climbing back out this dirt road in the rain is why I'm glad we have 4wd.
[First outing ever in the Tin Pickle]

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Old 01-24-2012, 01:07 AM   #93
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Shouldn't be going full highway speed in 4 wheel drive. That wears things out. If you have a bigger truck, (2500 or ton) it is good to use 4 wheel drive if going up (or down) a steep dirt road, to have 2 tires driving on the ruts instead of one tire scrambling and shredding. Really saves on tires. But don't use 4 wheel on level dry surfaces with the bigger trucks, that gets real tough on equipment. Granny gear is usefull sometimes for manourvering; low range reverse is fine for backing a trailer around obstacles. I wish I had a locking front differential to help with the embarassment of 2 tires spinning. If the only vehicle option was a 2 wheel drive truck, I'd be fixing up individual rear wheel brakes using the hand brake system and/or a locking rear differential, and get the front tires off the ground. A lot of us farmers have had to steer with the wheel brakes on a tractor because the front tires didn't make it down to the ground, that gets extra interesting going up hill on several feet of ice with the big tractor chains on. (Use the hydraulic control for the drawbar load to control the elevation of the front tires, then the hand throttle , and the wheel brakes, sorta like flying). Few folks pull an airstream with "mudders" on. I used the 4 wheel drive a few times today to save a bunch of hassle on some slippery snow. (Snow and ice are the slipperiest at 32F, not very slippery at way below Zero.)
Perry (not that other one)

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Old 01-24-2012, 12:36 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
This conversation has suddenly gone way south of factual. I'm bowing out, before it gets ugly. Not trying to be nasty, but misinformation is starting to come out.
Yes it is...maybe this site will help you all.

most common 4WD questions - glossary of 4x4 terms, description of various situations
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Old 01-24-2012, 01:37 PM   #95
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Quick note here...I've replaced the factory "limited slip" diffs on several cars as they do not age well. I used to offroad 5000 miles a year in the San Juans and never had any issues with ARB units. i'm kind of suspecting that the 4x4 naysayers either lack experience or got bum info. If you lived in the Four Corners, it would be difficult to even buy a 2x4 as the resale and trade in value would suck. In fact, most local dealers have to special order 2x4's.

My wife owns an allwheel drive Porsche widebody convertable, but still haven't been able find a carbon fiber hitch to haul the AS
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Old 01-24-2012, 02:07 PM   #96
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If you ever use your TV to launch a boat at one of those slippery boat ramps, you'll be glad you have 4x4 to help you crawl up to dry land again!
Yup, that's one of the many reasons I'll always have a 4x4. That, and the fact that I love to camp here:

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Old 01-24-2012, 02:35 PM   #97
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Front Axle

Brian, I used to have your truck! When I was selling it in SoCal it got several calls from folks in Canada wanting to buy it. It seems the GM independent front suspension 4x4 is appreciated there. I would like to hear from those who feel the solid axle of the Ford and Dodge is good for anything. Ford sure sells allot of these F250's and they don't drive or ride as well as the GM 2500's. Why do guys want this? Ron
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:11 PM   #98
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Locker/Limited slip

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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
IMO, either 4wd OR a locking rear diff is needed. NOT a limited slip...they are for sports cars and should never have been put in trucks that pull loads. A LOCKER.

I am tempted to go 2wd with a locker next time. I had one on a sandy beach site years ago and couldn't believe how it pulled the SOB out of the sand with 2WD/locker.

Remember a 4wd without a locker (or limited slip) is just a 2wd, one front and one rear. A 2wd without a locker (or limited slip) is known in the industry as a "one wheel wonder". Not good for much when a load is on.
A "Locker" or "Spool" differential is for off road use only ie. race track and are dangerous on the street compared to a "Limited Slip" that transfers torque to the traction tire. Not to mention tire chatter around turns with a Locker.An air locker or electronic switchable unit would be available on demand.LSD Eaton Detroit Truetrac - Off Road Magazine Off-Road Adventures Magazine
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