OK - not finding any Cayenne as TV specific topic on here after several searches - & not wanting to further hijack the Tow-riggers (Treg) topic - I'll start one here specifically for the Porsche Cayenne, that having filtered to the top of my WTB list for our TV & "3rd car".
Others with Cayenne questions are welcomed to post them here too, so there is an actual topic under TVs for this subject.
Note that I have read Andy T's articles on smaller TVs & will ultimately consult with him - perhaps even driving from SoCal to Ontario, CAN to get the hitch mods & set-up for safer WD/Anti-Sway towing, if I can't get it done locally with his input long distance. BTW - the Cayenne was mentioned by him as his top pick TV - price being no object, which it now is not for an older model year.
I was initially interested in the 1985-89 Porsche 928 S/S4 as a more fun dual purpose vehicle, so comments on that would be welcomed here too.
Yes Virgina, the 928 was rated to tow (private not commercial) by the German TUV (their DOT) at up to 4144 lbs under their test similar to the current US-DOT's SAE standards, with 165# HW on one of their goofy phallic arching up hitches, & they were used a lot in EuroLand & the UK for such duties. Also several folks here in the USA/CAN have outfitted them with custom made 2" receivers accessed behind the Lic plate to tow large rigs (TTs, Boats, Racer Trailers, etc.), & adding a welded tube extension following the Porsche factory hitches' welded bar forward link & bolted to the unibody structure forward of the rear axle where the factory hitch link bolts on, as a WD transfer.
Think of it as a 2+2 Corvette hatchback, with low-low CG, 2 or 4 piston Brembo disc brakes, 5.0L V8 32V 295 or 315 HP with 307 or 317 ft# TQ (former numbers are `85-86 S & latter are `87-89 S4 & 86.5 got the 4 piston Brembos from SN...1000+), with 50:50 wt dist. due to a front-mid-engine - rear transaxle layout, all came with HD AT cooler & HD radiator for the factory's 155-175 mph max rating, 100"+/- WB & short rear overhang, excellent suspension with a steering rear axle!!
A nice 928 S/S4 with an automatic - which most were - can be had with <70-80k mi in MYs `85-89 for $8,000 to mid-teens to $20,000+/- - & the 928's up to 1989 MY qualify for classic car insurance, so I can insure one for about $215 a year for 5,000 mi/yr (we currently only put <6k on our 2 DDs per year). So other than Porsche parts & repair prices & some parts scarcity for any older classic car - this seemed like a perfect car that could double as a amply powered/braked TV for our 3-8 vintage trailer outing a year, if not for longer cross country trips, & would be a very comfortable driver with or without the TT.
OK, nuff said - it lost out due to the wife wanting yet another car with a full-on back seat to seat 5 "...for the grandkid(s)!" ...notwithstanding that they're across the country in NC, but whatever - we all know how that goes with the wife!
So on to the Cayenne question - for TT background, there are some key TT numbers & info relative to TV choice & set-up further below, & here's the link for our restored 1960
Avion T20 "vintage kin" (actually a 1961
model year TT & #2 off the factory floor)....
Our daily drivers (DD) are not adequate TV's for this TT -
1.) a 1985 BMW 325e Coupe with the 2.7L 121 HP "eta" fuel efficient motor (same as the `80's 528e) - not the later more powerful 325i's 161 HP - & neither is enough oompf for my liking to tow a 20' 3000# trailer. But it gets mid-30's mpg on the freeway & high teens to mid-20's around town - depending on how "heavy" your right foot is & how bad traffic & lights are!
2.) a now restored/refurb'ed 1988 "Westfalia" VW Vanagon Camper GL with the waterboxer 2.1L flat-4 & automatic - enough said, a no go TV without a complete makeover! Oddly, even though a 4 cyl - it's gas milage is a low 14-16 city & 18-20 hwy - so not far off a V8 SUV!!
3.) a 1973 Porsche 914-2.0 "914-S" currently awaiting my returned attention to its restoration/repairs, also an aircooled flat 4 & not a TV!
Here is my thought process on this "new for us" TV question....
We've been members under the account which I set up for my wife at the above link since Feb. 2012, owners since July 2012 & rent TVs since then - so far 2013 V6 Eco F150, 2013 Nissan Pathfinders 4.0L V6 (didn't like it & reliability sucks), 2014 Dodge Ram 2500 V8s (5.7 & 6.3) - & wouldn't/can't buy/use any of them due to our narrow driveway & obstacles, narrow streets & since my wife will NOT drive any of the big trucks -
- so please pass on the "you need a pick-em-up-truck" posts!!
We passed on the classic 1960's car route, since it would cost as much as a new Cayenne or similar to get one in good enough restored driver condition & set-up for safe towing on modern freeways - even though a bitchen 1960-61 Olds 88 wagon was shown in that 1960
Avion sales brochure for our T20 posted at post #5 at the link above (it may have even been our T20 used for the ad). But we had one as a family car in which I learned to drive, & it was heavy, not a very powerful V8 with weak drum brakes, & all the electrical & vacuum powered options were a royal PITA to keep running even in the mid-to-late 1960's when we had it!!!!
... so no classic car/pick-up for us!
Ergo, what fits our needs best is a Mid-sized SUV (or wagon) with a powerful V8, great suspension & ride, strong brakes & the dreaded rear seat for 3 & bigger stowage area (relative to my 928 choice) is the direction we'll probably go. Yes - I have looked into the V8 powered Ford Explorer, Dodge Durango, Chevy/GM Trailblazer & Nissan Pathfinder options - which all have some reliability, gas mileage & quality/set-up concerns for me/us; while the Toyota/Lexus V8 Gland Bruiser & 4Runner have great quality, but ride more like the trucks on which they're based & their prices are higher than a comparable 2003-10 Cayenne with half or 1/3 the miles on the latter!
Yes, I did look at the VW Toureg & Audi Q7 "twins," but they have smaller & less powerful V8's, softer suspensions, the VW's have more quality & reliability issues, & the Q7 is heavier & longer for the 3rd row we don't need. Their V6 TDIs came out earlier - & the V10 TDI is a TQ monster - but again the costs & complexity vs. a plain ole' normally aspirated V8 is not worth it to me. Also the V6 versions of the "3 sisters" is likewise capable of towing the 7700#, but IMHO will have to work a lot harder than a V8 & be more stressed - leading to more repairs, all for just a small 2-3 mpg improvement. Plus the Cayenne S & other V8s are far more numerous & not much more cost than the V6.
And the mechanics & Cayenne S/GTS owners with whom I spoken have said that they are pretty bulletproof motors capable of 200-250k miles (many 928's I know with similar V8s have gone 200-300k+) - so long as they are properly & timely maintained, and they critical factory recco'ed upgrades were done - including the plastic coolant pipe upgrade/replacement for metal ones (also a VW/Audi V8 issue), the ignition coils' upgrades, & front upper bushings/ball joints & the kardan shaft/drive shaft & bearings replaced when needed (usually 40k+ mi) & a few others on some MYs. Owners who skimped on the Porsche priced maintenance will have problems, as will those who thrashed them without the proper care afterwards.
And yes, a Diesel of one of these would have better fuel mileage & more TQ, but at the cost of more complexity, higher maintenance costs & much higher purchase price. I can buy a lot of premium gas over the next decade for the $10k-$20k-$40k+ more that the diesels of any of those will cost over an early Cayenne S with the V8
Now that older Cayennes have followed the dreaded devaluation curve for 5-10 or so years now, so they're actually quite affordable relative to their competitors, plus they're more likely to be well maintained, babied & lower mileage than the others. So now I'm seeing values at <70-80k well cared for examples for the 2003-06 Series 1 Cayenne S in the $10-20k +/- range, & high-teens to $30k +/- for the 2008-10 Series 2 (or Series 1.5) models, but will probably continue to depreciate further in ensuing years (another 928 benefit was that they've bottomed out & will rise as collectables).
As I said, comparable Toyotas ar a bit more for 2x - 4x the miles, & the Tregs are only slightly less, but have the smaller & less powerful V8s, smaller brakes & softer suspensions - & NO, Cayennes are not simply a rebadged Treg - there are a ton of driveability improvements alone!
So what are we going to tow....
(`61 MY) Avion T20's factory stated weights were:
2850# TW &
- not sure if those were fully dry, with or without dry camping options.
Some resto changes made by the PO which would affect those wts. are:
1.) 2x 20# LP tanks (steel) replaced by 2x 30# (steel) at A-frame
2.) Battery box & 2x heavy old school "tractor duty" 6V lead acid batteries in series for 12v
at A-frame/front wall outside removed, & replaced with 1x 12v
Optima battery under dinette about 5' aft of originals.
3.) 20 gal Alum pressure tank & air pumps system & copper lines at cabinet below front window, replaced with 27+/- gal poly water tank & electric pump with PEX lines at same location.
4.) 20+/- gal Blackwater tank upsized to 25+/- gal @ rear bath.
5.) The resto removed the Princess 4-burner stove/oven & replaced with 2-burner SS RV cooktop (we may backdate to the stove), added a 1.2 CF microwave, & updated the original Norcold fridge with a current one, ditto with the 6-gal WH, wall furnace removed & cabinet door replaced (I'll add an Olympian Wave6 & shorten the door), & we added a 15" LCD TV/DVD. So I'm assuming this is a net zero on wt., since most of the copper pipes were replaced with PEX & plastic drain pipes.
Plus my additions:
6.) Tekonsha RF Controller box on a 12"x15"x3/32" steel plate mount + SS bolts.
7.) Hensley Cub hitch with the tensioner jacks (not chains) - which IIRC weighed about 76# & easy enough for me at 62 to lift & mount by myself.
8.) A rear 4" Sq RV Bumper Mounted receiver & folding aluminum 24" x 60" cargo rack modified to carry the TT spare tire under + 2 bikes or gear on top, which I've weighed & added all up to be max 176# (including the modified Curt 2" bolt on receiver with a 2nd higher receiver for better clearance) - so call it 200# at most if some other stuff loaded on rack.
While we've not yet put it on the scales to get the tongue & axle wts., I've had no problem with getting the Hensley semi-dialed in for towing, although it needs some fine tuning to resolve some bounce on washboard freeway sections, especially with the very long 3/4T Ram 2500 Crew Cab Full Bed trucks the last 2 rentals this year.
Mathematically I'd estimated that the TW is probably now in the 3000-3500# range wet & loaded, with +/- 350# HW - which is WD. The Cayenne is rated for 7719# TW & 770# HW non-WD'ed (the Cay Series 3 2011-13 may be downrated to 619# on the latter) - so we should be fine there with the Andy T./CanAm recco'd receiver reinforcements & dial-in.
We had no problem with this set-up on the 2013 4.0L V6 Nissan Pathfinders - which actually rode far better than the hard sprung & hi-lifted V8 Ram 2500s - but the V6 had to work hard on some grades, so I prefer the V8s with some power reserve & less cabin noise for us.
So if we get a Cayenne S & do the hitch mods & then weights & dial-in the Hensley Cub, then we should be okay .... unless another member with actual Cayenne towing experience has some other cautions &/or warnings/problems??
I'm also curious as to:
A.) What type of gas mileage Cayenne S V8 owners got both towing & "bare" city/street & highway?
B.) If there were any other preventative &/or extra wear related maintenance items &/or issues encountered because of the towing?
C.) Any difficulties finding competent service for them in the non-large-urban areas which typically have a bunch of Porsche dealerships & independents to work on them?
...& if you've found that in those situations if a competent VW &/or Audi shop could handle things in a pinch?
Thanx in Advance for any input.
PS - I'll add a pic of the T20 hitched to the Pathfinder when I can find that pic, since it's closer size-wise to the Cayenne, than the F150 & ram 2500. In the meantime here's a pic of the 1960 brochure T20, of the Hensley Cub + Tekonsha RF (note that I later had to put that taller mounting plate for the RF box, than the one shown, in order to have clearance for the side strut-bar's tensioning nut device - the later Pathfinder as hitched pix will show it), & the silver twinkie in our driveway to see why a full size pick-up/SUV is too big.