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Old 12-11-2014, 09:19 AM   #113
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I am wondering if anyone has actually towed with a gasoline Cayenne and done an accurate mpg check. I mean a check over about 1000 plus miles with accurate recording of actual gallons used. The big problem in fuel mileage is the somehow inflation of the numbers so as to appear as though there is actual good fuel economy.

I would find it extremely difficult to believe a gasoline Cayenne would get more than 10 or 11 mpg towing at 60 mph an Airstream weighing over 6000 lbs (25 footers and up).

However, if someone who has actually documented towing over 1000 miles and the fuel used can show better than this... I have an open mind, albeit skeptical....
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Old 12-12-2014, 03:33 PM   #114
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That's a great idea to add to the info. base Tommie/Msmoto!

I'll check with the guy I know in UT towing a 22' SOB which I think is 22' & an `06 Cay-S as to what he gets. His SOB is high floor & not aerodynamic + heavier than my 1960 20' Avion, so his TT may actually be close to a 6000# 25` AS with those "tolls" on towability, & probably worse that I'd get.

There is a 3-5 mpg penalty for the extra power of the Cay-T you had Tommie & newer ones - & a bit less lower mpg for the middle GTS - vs. the normally aspirated S's V8 in city/hwy/mixed mpg when not towing, so the latter may well be 2-4 mpg better when towing (i.e.: 12-14 towing).

Most of the locals I know are towing car haulers (open & enclosed) to the track & AX, but I don't know how that mpg compares to towing a similar weight AS/kin.

I don't know that 1000 miles of towing on a trip is some magic number, but certainly anyone with experience towing with a Cayenne S, etc. on a longish trip or several of say 200-300 mi or more would be welcome here!

I think you can get accurate average mpg over any trip 200-1000+ miles.

Anyone who wants to post their mpg while towing with a Cayenne experience, please also list which model you're talking about - V6 gas or diesel, V8's in S, GTS, Turbo or Turbo S & model year - so it can be related to the particular engine.

Ditto for any other TVs posted as mid-sized competition here.

Also list the size, type & wt. of the TT towed for that mpg.

Again - I don't really care about mpg for the big full size trucks/SUVs cuz they're not in our sights - period.

Thanx!
Tom
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Old 12-12-2014, 03:55 PM   #115
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2014 Mercedes GL 350 BlueTec (2 adults, 4 kids under 12) pulling a 28' Serenity weighing 7200 lbs loaded we got 15-16 US mpg average at 65 mph. That was average over a 10,000 mile trip this summer.
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Old 12-13-2014, 02:22 PM   #116
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2014 ML350 BluTec. Just picked up our new 2015 30' Bunkhouse in Boise. Return trip to Denver bad headwinds out of Boise down to 12MPG rest of trip was just above 16 @ 65.


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Old 12-14-2014, 07:38 PM   #117
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A 2004 Cayenne S Owner's Towing Experience

Okay, here's what my 914 buddy sent to me about his experience & mpg towing with his 2004 Cayenne S V8 - & his 6000# 24' SOB noted below is close to what MsMoto/Tommie was asking & spans over several years now of towing with his Cay-S.

Hopefully this will also be helpful to others reading this & considering a Cay-S as an AS TV.

<snipped from 914world.com PM - my italics added to show quoted text>
Hi Tom,

04 Cayenne S

Here's the stats:

Travel Trailer - 24' LOA, Estimated 6,000 loaded (70 gallons of potable water and all the stuff 3 young ladies care to bring camping with them). 45 degree angled front.

Enclosed Car Hauler - 24' LOA, Estimated 6,500-7,000 loaded. Flat front.

Open Car Hauler - 20' LOA, estimated 4,000-4,500 loaded. Profile below Cayenne roof line.

Standard freeway mileage: 19-21 mpg

Mileage towing the travel trailer: 8-12
[mpg] speed, wind and grade dependent.

Mileage towing the enclosed car hauler: Unknown. I tried and the transmission overheated 50 miles from home. That said, it towed as well as a standard V8 truck BUT, it does not have the engine or transmission cooling capacities to keep up with this type of towing. I would guesstimate 5-10 mpg speed, wind and grade dependent. To be fair, I rented a truck to get me to LA that day and while it remained cool (needles never moved), it lacked true towing power as well (Silverado/F150 kinda stuff). That's the day I decided to go large or go home regarding my business and towing a large enclosed trailer around the country. F250 twin sequential turbo diesel and never looked back. That gets 8-10 mpg speed, wind and grade dependent. I can set the cruise at 80, put a DVD in the player and everyone is happy in the cavernous interior. 8.5 mpg though at that speed.

Mileage towing an open car hauler: 12-16
[mpg] wind and grade dependent. This will tell you that a lot of what towing is about is, the frontal area of the parachute behind you. A Cayenne will tow an open trailer all day long without sweating. Put a 24' travel trailer behind it and she's getting a workout. Put an enclosed car hauler back there and she's huff'n and puff'n

From my experience and what you are looking to tow, the Cayenne would be great. You "might" want to put a tranny cooler on there and it is rather easy to plumb one in but, that's when I had other decisions to make. About the only thing you'll notice with the Cayenne towing your smaller travel trailer is, the temperature will increase but, nothing into the danger zone unless you hit some "extreme" grades. San Bernadino might slow you down a tick but the rest should be gravy.

<end snip>

Note that Eric has a business now full time restoring Porsche Brake Calipers & other parts, etc., so he needs the big F250 diesel for hauling his business trailer to auto events, & he has none of my space constraints at home, he living in UT.

It's PMB Performance & does EXCELLENT restoration work for many of the classic Porsches shown at Concours worldwide, if anyone is interested or in need, here's their link:

Shop PMB - Catalog

And this is his SOB TT note in his quote above ....

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Old 12-14-2014, 07:56 PM   #118
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And here is the issues with the Cayenne S that Eric had warned me about a while back in Jan. 2013, when I started looking into them.

<snipped from 914world.com PM - my italics added to indicate quoted text & bracketed correction is per Eric's follow-up>

I would [not] go less than a Cayenne S. I don't think the others (Turbo or GTS) would be needed either. Very capable car for towing. Tows the 914 like it's not even back there. We do a lot of back country camping that we take trails to get to... don't see too many Cayenne's doing that here.

Issues:
Plastic Pipes
Tranny Valve Bodies?
Cardan Shaft (drive shaft)
Goes through tires like...
Not great mileage
[mpg]
Stereo stuff is odd
Lower control arm bushings bad at 55-60k (shame on you Porsche).

Other than that, excellent car.

E.


~ and ~

Meant to say "Wouldn't" go less than a Cayenne S.

V8 is needed.


<end snip>

Also note that in my telecon with Franswa, he said that those front lower suspension bushings noted in Eric's quote above cannot be replaced separately, so the entire lower control arms need to be replaced as a unit - although he felt that they may go as far as 100k miles.

Franswa also said that the newer `08> Cayennes with the metal coolant pipes have separation issues with the adhesive used to fix the pipes at the aluminum collector manifold, which Porsche is now replacing with a screw in type connector.

He also said that they also still have a plastic pipe under the collector which could eventually fail (why not make them all metal Porsche?? ), and that the engine needs to be dropped to access & replace that pipe &/or the collector manifold.

Franswa is a Porsche Gold Certified Tech with a Porsche dealership in MA.
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Old 12-14-2014, 08:00 PM   #119
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Yup.....Not much for mileage with the Cayenne....even non-turbo. About all I can say is.....my modified 1972 914 had 138,000 miles on it when I traded for a 280ZX.....
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Old 12-14-2014, 08:04 PM   #120
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Thanx to StokerDoc & 2012FB for the 2014 MBZ ML350 TT BlueTec mpg's for comparison.

Any others with Cayennes & Taureg V8s/etc.?

> as well as for comparison > BMW X5's, Audi Q7's, Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infinity, Honda/Acura, Chevy/GMC, Ford/Linc/Merc, Dodge/Chrysler, &/or other mid-size TVs want to chime in?
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Old 12-14-2014, 08:15 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msmoto View Post
Yup.....Not much for mileage with the Cayenne....even non-turbo. About all I can say is.....my modified 1972 914 had 138,000 miles on it when I traded for a 280ZX.....
Tommie...

My 1973 914-2.0 "914S" that I've owned since Dec. `75 (2nd owner) has about 172-174,000 on it now - after sitting in my garage since June 1985 (long story) - & I'm in the slow process of restoring it & getting it running again, now that both kids are grown & gone!

With the smallish difference of 8-12 mpg gas V8 Cayenne S vs. 12-16 mpg diesel (the ML350 BluTec is about what the Cayenne diesel owners I know towing are getting too) & that's similar for the Detroit Big 3 diesel 1/2-3/4T trucks - it would take a decade of 20,000 mi/yr or more of towing to ever recoup the higher fuel, purchase & maintenance costs for a diesel.

I think you just have to want the extra torque of the diesel for towing.

Happy Holidays!
Tom
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Old 12-14-2014, 08:26 PM   #122
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Just to stir the pot with big truck aficionados!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=0UFVI_MQPEQ
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Old 12-14-2014, 09:18 PM   #123
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Input on Porsche Cayenne as TV (& 928's??)

No, that Maxipad driver learns that once again there is no substitute for low end TQ against better traction.

6's rule in pickups . Check the video of Cummins versus a Case tractor.

The Cayenne would be the most fun. Except at the dealership.

.
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Old 12-14-2014, 09:52 PM   #124
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FAYI - Andy T's at CanAm RV recommended hitch reinforcement for WD use with the Cayenne/Taureg/Q7, BMW X5, MBZ ML etc. - see his "Hitch Hints" article at pgs. 6, 43 & 44 -

RV Lifestyle - Vol. 41 No. 4

It has to do with reinforcing the weld on the factory hitches themselves to resist the torque imposed by the WD hitches.

It's topic is on the diesel SUVs, but the hitch info relates to all engine types.

FAYI - "For All Y'all's Info"
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Old 12-15-2014, 12:07 AM   #125
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Porsche talk..... My 1999 996 Cab has 110,000 miles on it, and in August I was out in Palm Desert fully enjoying the hot weather...😅😎. The Porsche is my non-RV travel vehicle unless I head for Detroit in January, then it is Subaru Impreza.

One reason I have come back to Airstream from a Moho is the ability to handle poor weather, however. And, I find my Dodge 2500 does the job effortlessly. Maybe I can drive better than the video driver....geeez

And while I would love to try one of the new luxury turbo diesels, they would have to give it to me as I simply love the way the Dodge/Cummins performs in all conditions.


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Old 12-15-2014, 02:40 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msmoto View Post
Porsche talk..... My 1999 996 Cab has 110,000 miles on it, and in August I was out in Palm Desert fully enjoying the hot weather...😅😎. The Porsche is my non-RV travel vehicle unless I head for Detroit in January, then it is Subaru Impreza.

One reason I have come back to Airstream from a Moho is the ability to handle poor weather, however. And, I find my Dodge 2500 does the job effortlessly. Maybe I can drive better than the video driver....geeez

And while I would love to try one of the new luxury turbo diesels, they would have to give it to me as I simply love the way the Dodge/Cummins performs in all conditions.


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LOL You must've been driving with oven mitts!! - Palm Desert in August is just pure torture at 100-120+ day & nite. I'll take the SoCal coast in summer anytime! The desert is sooo much nicer in Spring & Fall IMHO.

But I love people who actually drive their Porsches for more than just around town or a weekend twisty road run! Nothing wrong with the latter, but they need to really drive them.

I took my 914 everywhere - including camping, skiing & long XC trips. With 29-35 hwy mpg & it's 2 trunks totaling 16 cf + roof racks for skis or bikes it was an easy road trip car!

As for MH vs TT - I think for long trips you end up dragging something behind you - either the TT/AS or a TOAD! At least the TV+TT bends in the middle & is generally shorter OA, as opposed to 35-40' MH + 20'+ for the TOAD.

Porsche says they won't bring their V8 Diesel Cayenne from Europe over here - so I guess that leaves either gray market + huge costs to convert for US approval, or wait `til their 25 years old for the US-DOT & EPA import exemption. I think they 1st made them for 2011 MY, so that's 2036!

I may yet end up with a Dodge 2500 or Ford F250 diesel from the local Enterprise Trucks rental fleet before we find something to buy, so I may yet have a chance to experience it 1st hand.

But it still won't end up on our list due to not fitting in our driveway & my wife won't drive it!
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