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Old 12-10-2014, 12:47 PM   #99
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Input on Porsche Cayenne as TV (& 928's??)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rostam View Post
If I am not mistaken, Tom_T plans to tow a small vintage Avion that's lightweight and short. I think that makes Cayenne a viable choice -- with the caveat of high maintenance costs.

Pulling a large modern Airstream there is no question a pickup will outperform cayenne in terms of pulling/stopping/stability as Msmoto and others who have experience towing with both have noted. But remember Tom_T doesn't want to pull a large modern Airstream.


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You don't think I can read between your lines? When properly equipped a large modern AS will also be no problem. Remember, I have ACTUAL towing experience with pulling a modern large AS with something that isn't a pickup. Power, stopping and stability are just fine...actually, much better than "fine".

rostam, give it up. ALL you ever do on this entire forum is join these same "discussions" and spread your "knowledge". Have you ever discussed anything else on here? What's the purpose?
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Old 12-10-2014, 01:00 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cory_can View Post
You don't think I can read between your lines? When properly equipped a large modern AS will also be no problem. Remember, I have ACTUAL towing experience with pulling a modern large AS with something that isn't a pickup. Power, stopping and stability are just fine...actually, much better than "fine".

rostam, give it up. ALL you ever do on this entire forum is join these same "discussions" and spread your "knowledge". Have you ever discussed anything else on here? What's the purpose?
I'm sorry you took my post personally. I thought this forum was meant as a medium for members to share their views/experiences.
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Old 12-10-2014, 01:46 PM   #101
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Not personal. Views and experiences are fine.

You said there was no question that a pickup would outperform a Cayenne in pulling/stopping/stability.....that's actually a view, but stated like a fact...and what is your experience?

Also, (no disrespect to Msmoto, but) the stated (negative) experience towing with Cayenne that you use to compare (to pickup experience) was with a 10yo models that had outdated transmission technology, spoke about fuel economy on a TT and seat position.

- Fuel economy on the TT IS horrible, towing or NOT.....it's not exactly on their POSITIVE column for CAFE standards
- Seat position is completely a personal opinion.....I actually prefer to be lower, along with the CoG
- Transmissions of newer models are MUCH MUCH better than previous MY's. Lots has happened in 10 years.

Also, in your blurb you seem to have glanced over the others that are very happy and impressed with the Cayenne's towing ability.....including Ron who said "Definitely the best tow vehicle I've ever driven; IMHO." ....and he drives a 2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel.
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Old 12-10-2014, 03:25 PM   #102
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I will simply add here as to the cost of maintenance/repairs that are certainly higher on a Cayenne/Touareg/Audi Q, when buying used, consider purchasing an extended warranty. Yes it adds to the cost of ownership, but the cost of repairs can exceed the cost of the warranty. It's just the reality of driving one of these vehicles.

Oh, and by the way I do tow with both a pickup truck and a VW Touareg. And although a Touareg is not a Cayenne, there are more similarities than differences. The performance, handling, brakes and pulling power of the Touareg exceeds that of the truck. The truck just has more capacity for stuff and payload for longer trips.
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Old 12-10-2014, 05:07 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by m.hony View Post
Hmm...
My 1/2 ton 2 wheel drive pickup rides sooo much better than my Nissan Pathfinder...
But probably not better ride than a Cayenne/Taureg/Q7, BMW X5, MBZ ML, Toyota/Lexus LandCruiser & other premium SUVs etc.

True, the 2WD pickups are both lower & ride better than 4x4 trucks, but then we have to give better all weather capabilities available in the above noted AWD/4WD SUVs to get that 2WD ride!

Also - whether 1/2, 3/4, 1T in pickup or SUV flavors - they still won't fit well in our driveway, are harder to maneuver TV+TT when threading the needle from our narrow street to the much narrower driveway, & my wife will NOT drive them cuz she thinks they're too big.

So once again - a full size truck or SUV of ANY make is a non-sequitur for us - read NO GO!

However, this OP would welcome more input on the Cayenne &/or any other mid-sized SUV V8 or diesel for towing - if you think say, that a Toyota Land Cruiser or its Lexus twin is a superior TV in this class, or BMW or MBZ, etc. - for comparison's sake!

In other words - enough from the big truck faithful - it's of no help & no use when somebody cannot take that option!

Tom
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Old 12-10-2014, 05:19 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by mefly2 View Post
Agree with Msmoto ... save your performance / sports vehicles for what they were designed and get a TV that was designed to tow ... it would be hard to beat a diesel TV BUT get one that was designed from the ground up to tow.
Certainly, the Cayenne wins the award for the "coolest" (if not one of the most expensive to maintain) diesel TVs. Can you tow with it ...YES; should you tow with it - only you can decide. I chose not to tow with any of my Porsches or Corvettes ... the pickup truck -for us as a TV- has advantages too numerous to count. YMMV !
I'm actually gravitating towards the 2006 TI or 2008-10 Cayenne S V GAS V8 choice - not the diesel due to the higher purchace, maintenance & fuel costs (now 0.20-0.30 more than premium gas here).

I see you "chose" not to tow with your Porsches (don't know which ones), but I don't hold to the belief that the Stuttgart badge on the hood somehow means thou shalt not tow, or tow at your own peril.

How can the less powerful, smaller braked & softer suspension - but otherwise nearly the same chassis/platform - VW Taureg V8 & Diesel V10/V6 somehow be the perfect TV promoted by so many on here....
... but the better braked, suspended & more powerful Porsche cousin is somehow not!?

And I don't hold to the 'mercun' trucks are the only real TV theory, nor do I hold anything against Detroit heavy metal - they just won't work for us.

So I'm looking for the smallest mid-size SUV/CUV package with a powerful V8 or diesel (preferable the gasser IMHO) which can tow our vintage trailer...
.... plus serve as our "extra car" when off-TV-duty the other 300+/- days of the year!

It helps too that a Porsche or BMW SUV/TV would also be useful in doing marque specific events with either those 2 car clubs to which we belong!
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Old 12-10-2014, 05:29 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rostam View Post
If I am not mistaken, Tom_T plans to tow a small vintage Avion that's lightweight and short. I think that makes Cayenne a viable choice -- with the caveat of high maintenance costs.

Pulling a large modern Airstream there is no question a pickup will outperform cayenne in terms of pulling/stopping/stability as Msmoto and others who have experience towing with both have noted. But remember Tom_T doesn't want to pull a large modern Airstream.


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Rostam - I'm not sure that's always true in all models/options for these various TVs, cuz in my "driving feel" of comparing stopping in the 3 different mid-sized SUV (body-on-frame) 2013 MY 4.0L V6 Pathfinders in 2013 - vs. - the 2012 3.6L V6 F150 4x4 Ext. Cab/SB, 2 V8 (5.7 & 6.3L) 2014 Dodge 2500 full Crew Cab LB & a V8 F250 Crew SB ...

The bigger trucks all seemed to require me to leave a noticeably longer stopping distance than the smaller SUVs - even with our little trailer!

Pulling power was better with the V8s, but I think you lose quite a bit of braking & pulling performance when you start with a 6500-8000# truck vs a smaller & lighter 4500-5500# SUV.

You just start off luggin around & trying to stop more mass with the trucks right off the bat, which is why that first 2012 MY Ford F150 1/2T 3.6L V6 Ext. Cab/SB 4x4 (not sure if it was Ecoboost - just can't recall now) was only rated at a paltry 5000# towing capacity!

Tom
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Old 12-10-2014, 05:38 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cory_can View Post
The OP wanted Porsche Cayenne towing advice/experience.....not another "get a pickup truck" thread.

Here's my opposing view....if I was somehow regulated into driving a pickup truck for towing I would probably sell my Airstream.

There are many option that aren't pickup trucks that make excellent tow vehicles....the Cayenne is one of them.

Maintenance is what it is for a premium vehicle....and if you choose to dealer maintain the easy stuff you will pay for it. All vehicles need fluids, brakes, tires and over time occasional suspension work.
Here, here Cory!

Nuff "get a pick-up" advice - it just is NOT applicable to our needs - period, end of subject, just won't work, etc., etc., etc.!!!!

I mean really - if I had my "ideal cool TV" for this restored 1960 Avion T20 aluminum twinkie that I didn't mind just sitting around most of the year unused ....

... it would not even be a "modern TV" - Porsche Cayenne or otherwise - but rather a fully restored & updated/outfitted for TV duties vintage & period correct car or SUV from the 1960-61 MY ....

... but those done right & whole hog will rival the cost of a new Cayenne with harder parts availability & zero dealer support!

....
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Old 12-10-2014, 05:52 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo View Post
I will simply add here as to the cost of maintenance/repairs that are certainly higher on a Cayenne/Touareg/Audi Q, when buying used, consider purchasing an extended warranty. Yes it adds to the cost of ownership, but the cost of repairs can exceed the cost of the warranty. It's just the reality of driving one of these vehicles.

Oh, and by the way I do tow with both a pickup truck and a VW Touareg. And although a Touareg is not a Cayenne, there are more similarities than differences. The performance, handling, brakes and pulling power of the Touareg exceeds that of the truck. The truck just has more capacity for stuff and payload for longer trips.
Well put, & a factory CPO on a`08-10 Cayenne S out to 100k mi & 5 more years would be ideal if found (in fact, better than the original 48/48!), & that seems to add only $3-6 k to price (i.e.: at the high end of NADA/etc. retail range).

I've read a lot of your & others Toureg TV posts with enthusiasm, & have spoken to several other vintage trailer folks towing with Tregs of all powerplants.

I think of a Cayenne as a Treg on steriods, with a few more options thrown in standard!
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Old 12-10-2014, 06:02 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
Well put, & a factory CPO on a`08-10 Cayenne S out to 100k mi & 5 more years would be ideal if found (in fact, better than the original 48/48!), & that seems to add only $3-6 k to price (i.e.: at the high end of NADA/etc. retail range).
You can get a bumper to bumper warranty on your Cayenne from Fidelity Fidelity Warranty Services - Home Page for 3 years or 36K miles for around $3000.
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Old 12-10-2014, 06:36 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by cory_can View Post
Not personal. Views and experiences are fine.

You said there was no question that a pickup would outperform a Cayenne in pulling/stopping/stability.....that's actually a view, but stated like a fact...and what is your experience?

Also, (no disrespect to Msmoto, but) the stated (negative) experience towing with Cayenne that you use to compare (to pickup experience) was with a 10yo models that had outdated transmission technology, spoke about fuel economy on a TT and seat position.

- Fuel economy on the TT IS horrible, towing or NOT.....it's not exactly on their POSITIVE column for CAFE standards
- Seat position is completely a personal opinion.....I actually prefer to be lower, along with the CoG
- Transmissions of newer models are MUCH MUCH better than previous MY's. Lots has happened in 10 years.

Also, in your blurb you seem to have glanced over the others that are very happy and impressed with the Cayenne's towing ability.....including Ron who said "Definitely the best tow vehicle I've ever driven; IMHO." ....and he drives a 2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel.
Now, now Boyz .... let's not bicker like the SNL Bickersons!

The TT - Cayenne Turbo V8 - is more fuel & tire hungry, which is why I'm not so interested in them, nor the GTS so much, but rather in the normally aspirated Cayenne S V8. Although the first Series 1 Cayennes had their problems - especially in the first 2 MYs 2003-04 - they would still have comparable TV performance to the later models even with their older 6 speed.

Listen - those big V8 F250 & Dodge 2500s really did not care if my Avion was back there or not - they got pretty much 10-12 mpg hitched or bare! So a Cayenne S at 12-14 mpg towing & 14-19 bare is both an improvement, & about the same as our 2.1L H4 VW Westy "brick on wheels" mpg!

IIRC Rostam is towing with a MBZ ML500 or at least ML V8 or diesel - so it's close & relevant to this Mid-sized SUV/CUV/Truck Comparo.

A full sized truck/SUV is not - so it would be a better use of space & words to offer comparisons to other vehicles in the MID-sized class here.

I know they're out there, those with V8 or diesel Jeep GC, Ford Explorer/Lin&Merc twins, Chevy Trailblazer/GMC twin, Dodge Durango/RAM/Chrysler twins - as well as others with BMW X5, MBZ ML & Toureg/Q7 owners.

I really did look into them all with no particular predetermined bias - so long as they fit our needs as originally posted. And that included other cars with V8 power - like the Chrysler 300/Dodge Magnum, Ford Taurus & Edge (Flex is full sized & too big, but with 4500# tow option), Audi A6/A8/Crosstour & MBZ E wagons, etc. - but their non-existant/not published &/or absurdly low or "lowered recently" tow ratings on them in the 1000-3500# range make me think the 4400# Porsche 928S/S4 was the better choice with more pizzaz!

I mean really, when was the last time - if ever - that you saw a car or truck magazine or show do a comparo of the Cayenne or similar - with a full sized 1/2T Toyota, Nissan, Ford, Chevy, GM or Dodge pick-up or SUV. They'd probably just lose anyway!

So let's offer info at least in the Mid-size range of consideration here - if not on the stated topic of the Porsche Cayenne per se ..... pleeeez!

Best!
Tom
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Old 12-10-2014, 06:44 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by mojo View Post
You can get a bumper to bumper warranty on your Cayenne from Fidelity Fidelity Warranty Services - Home Page for 3 years or 36K miles for around $3000.
Thanx for the lead Mojo, but ....

After having a 3rd Party Warranty sold by the BMW dealership during the first 3 years it was leased while new on my `85 BMW 325e, & having them wriggle out of & exclude everything (which wasn't much) - I find the 3rd party leases pretty useless, & Consumer Reports shares my opinion.

IMHO I'd be better off to bank the $3k to use if/when needed, than to pay them for a useless warranty. Others may find it useful who read here though.

Besides, in our Cayenne/Taureg/Q7 world - & with pretty much any other SUVs in TV duty - the bigger & more important costs will be in more frequent maintenance & fluid changes + wear related repairs & replacements - all of which are typically not covered by any warranty - Factory CPO or otherwise.

Tom
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Old 12-10-2014, 07:29 PM   #111
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FWIW, this is the company that underwrites for most of the manufacturers, Toyota, VW, Mercedes, etc. If you request VW's factory extended warranty, this is the company. They have covered every repair on my Touareg without hesitation. In fact, when the trans started downshifting hard, they told the repair shop not to bother repairing. They had a new trans shipped from Germany. Cost $8,200. My cost $100. I hope you have deep pockets...just sayin'.
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Old 12-10-2014, 08:46 PM   #112
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FWIW, this is the company that underwrites for most of the manufacturers, Toyota, VW, Mercedes, etc. If you request VW's factory extended warranty, this is the company. They have covered every repair on my Touareg without hesitation. In fact, when the trans started downshifting hard, they told the repair shop not to bother repairing. They had a new trans shipped from Germany. Cost $8,200. My cost $100. I hope you have deep pockets...just sayin'.
Thanx for clarifying. It sounds like they're worth checking out then!
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