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Old 11-29-2014, 09:38 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOGRIDER View Post
TomT,

Love to post a picture if some nice person will talk me through the process...for the life of me I can't figure it out, and I work with computers every day.
I just scroll down below the posting window/box to the Manage Attachments grey button, & then add photos from my laptop using the browse, open & upload sequence in that little window it opens up.

I'm not much one for uploading pix to internet sites like flicker that MsMoto suggests, but that works well too & probably doesn't cut into your account's upload allowance.
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Old 11-29-2014, 09:46 PM   #72
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I found these Cayenne S Specs at a listing for a 2009 S at a Porsche dealer, so hopefully they used the correct factory ones, but note how they listed the towing capacities which I bolded in the snip below 5000# wt. bearing & 7719# WD!

.... so much for no WD on Euro SUVs & Cars!

<snipped>
Vehicle Name : Porsche Cayenne
Body Style : 4 Door SUV
Drivetrain : All Wheel Drive
EPA Classification : 4WD Sport Utility Vehicle
Passenger Capacity : 5
Passenger Volume (ft3) : - TBD -
Base Curb Weight (lbs) : 4950
EPA Greenhouse Gas Score : 6
Fuel Economy Est-Combined (MPG) : 15
EPA Fuel Economy Est - City (MPG) : 13
EPA Fuel Economy Est - Hwy (MPG) : 19
Tons/yr of CO2 Emissions @ 15K mi/year : 12.4
Dead Weight Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. (lbs) : 5000
Dead Weight Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. (lbs) : 500
Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. (lbs) : 7716
Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. (lbs) : 771

Engine Type : Gas V8
Displacement : 4.8L/293
Fuel System : SMPI
SAE Net Horsepower @ RPM : 385 @ 6200
SAE Net Torque @ RPM : 369 @ 3500
Trans Type : 6
Trans Description Cont. : Automatic w/OD
First Gear Ratio (:1) : 4.15
Second Gear Ratio (:1) : 2.37
Third Gear Ratio (:1) : 1.56
Fourth Gear Ratio (:1) : 1.16
Fifth Gear Ratio (:1) : 0.86
Sixth Gear Ratio (:1) : 0.69
Reverse Ratio (:1) : 3.39
Final Drive Axle Ratio (:1) : 3.55
Transfer Case Gear Ratio (:1), High : 1.0
Transfer Case Gear Ratio (:1), Low : - TBD -
Cold Cranking Amps @ 0* F (Primary) : - TBD -
Maximum Alternator Capacity (amps) : - TBD -
Total Cooling System Capacity (qts) : - TBD -
Suspension Type - Front : Independent
Suspension Type - Rear : Independent
Suspension Type - Front (Cont.) : Double Wishbone
Suspension Type - Rear (Cont.) : Multi-Link
Shock Absorber Diameter - Front (mm) : - TBD -
Shock Absorber Diameter - Rear (mm) : - TBD -
Stabilizer Bar Diameter - Front (in) : - TBD -
Stabilizer Bar Diameter - Rear (in) : - TBD -
Front Tire Order Code : - TBD -
Rear Tire Order Code : - TBD -

Spare Tire Order Code : - TBD -
Front Tire Size : P255/55ZR18
Rear Tire Size : P255/55ZR18
Spare Tire Size : - TBD -
Front Wheel Size (in) : 18 x 8
Rear Wheel Size (in) : 18 x 8
Spare Wheel Size (in) : - TBD -
Front Wheel Material : Aluminum
Rear Wheel Material : Aluminum
Steering Type : Pwr Rack & Pinion
Steering Ratio (:1), Overall : - TBD -
Lock to Lock Turns (Steering) : - TBD -
Turning Diameter - Curb to Curb (ft) : 38.4
Turning Diameter - Wall to Wall (ft) : - TBD -
Brake Type : Pwr
Brake ABS System : 4-Wheel
Disc - Front (Yes or ) : Yes
Disc - Rear (Yes or ) : Yes
Front Brake Rotor Diam x Thickness (in) : 13.78 x 1.34
Rear Brake Rotor Diam x Thickness (in) : 13.00 x 1.10
Fuel Tank Capacity, Approx (gal) : 26.4
Front Head Room (in) : 39.7
Front Leg Room (in) : 40.6
Front Shoulder Room (in) : 58.5
Front Hip Room (in) : - TBD -
Second Head Room (in) : 38.9
Second Leg Room (in) : 36.0
Second Shoulder Room (in) : 56.7
Second Hip Room (in) : - TBD -
Wheelbase (in) : 112.4
Length, Overall (in) : 188.9
Width, Max w/o mirrors (in) : 75.9
Height, Overall (in) : 66.9
Track Width, Front (in) : - TBD -
Track Width, Rear (in) : - TBD -
Min Ground Clearance (in) : 8.54
Rear Door Opening Height (in) : - TBD -
Rear Door Opening Width (in) : - TBD -
Cargo Area Length @ Floor to Seat 1 (in) : - TBD -
Cargo Area Length @ Floor to Seat 2 (in) : - TBD -
Cargo Area Width @ Beltline (in) : - TBD -
Cargo Box Width @ Wheelhousings (in) : - TBD -
Cargo Box (Area) Height (in) : - TBD -
Liftover Height (in) : - TBD -
Cargo Volume to Seat 1 (ft3) : 62.51
Cargo Volume to Seat 2 (ft3) : 19.07
<end snip>
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Old 11-29-2014, 10:14 PM   #73
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Okay, so here's the rented Ford F250 4x4 from last weekend's vintage camping trip in our driveway, which clearly shows why a V8 gas or V6/V8/V10 Diesel powered Mid-sized SUVis what fits our physical needs, as well as the needle that I need to thread to back into our driveway!
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Old 11-29-2014, 10:28 PM   #74
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... and this is my "Needle Threader" for the back part of the driveway & - eventually after the huge Ficus tree is removed - to maneuver back between the back of the house & front of garage & into the the backyard, perform a 180 in & out for future parking spot in our backyard!

It can also handle the trailer up & down that front driveway 8.33% incline & driveway apron slope & into the street for hitching & unhitching in street - in case I can't get folks across the street to move their cars for maneuvering room - since the street is an older 42' curb-to-curb narrow street usually found in these older 1920's neighborhoods.

If anyone is interested - This is a Power Mover trailer dolly custom built by a company in Oceanside CA & comes in smaller & larger sizes as well as this 5-wheel 1/2 HP AC unit. If only maneuvering on flat pavement we could've used their 3-wheel 1/4 HP unit - but between the front slope & the backyard turf & dirt areas, I opted for the larger unit.

BTW - The 12V battery is to operate the TT elec. brakes without a dangling jumper cable to the house battery now under the dinette inside the TT (PO had it moved from the stock original A-frame box location), & it has a 7-way hook-up to the brake switch (box by left handle). Box by right handle is for the 1/2 HP elec. motor Fwd, Off & Rev. - but the AC motor has zero braking, ergo the need for the operation of the TT brakes.

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Old 11-30-2014, 06:45 AM   #75
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Interesting thread.
I currently own a 2014 Cayenne DIESEL - we had a 2013 diesel as well and updated to 2014 to get an option I wanted not on our 2013.

I'm looking at purchasing another Airstream to serve my landscape photography obsession. Years back we had the 2007 Bambi Anniversary and a 2006 22' (?) something Airstream. Pulled the Bambi with an FJ Cruiser initially then a ML350 diesel - ML was FAR better TV. Towed the 22' with a F250 crew diesel and feed a few families in the desert with the money we spent on fuel!

Just my wife, myself and our cat who goes everywhere with his litter box!

I'm pondering the video linked earlier in the post showing a Cayenne towing in the test lanes - looks like a 22 or 23' flavor?????

Anyone know what length/model Airstream is in the video?
If not, I'll call the factory on Monday and ask them.

Our experience with the Porsche 2014 diesel is mixed:
1. Excellent mileage - about 25-26 in city and 33-36 interstate.
2. Great driving experience - far more power than the gas (which I drove as loaner and hated compared to our diesel).
3. Great fit and finish - 22K miles on it and no rattles, etc.
4. Now, cost of ownership if taken to Porsche dealer, which we do during warranty period, is high.
Oil change every 5K miles is min. of $225 and up.
Dealer wants fuel filter changed every 10K at $255 just for that!!
Thus, what you save with excellent MPG for this large of a SUV is all given back, and then some, with the fuel filter change expense.

Summary: It is my favorite SUV owned to date. Not a 911-S (we've had 3 over the years) but the Cayenne will tow.

Thus, need to define:
1. How well will it tow a 22-23' Airstream?
2. What to expect for cut into our fuel economy?

In short, will it work out on a spreadsheet?
Given being: Cost of 5-6 trips a year (4 short trips of 4-5 days being less than 500 miles from home and 2 trips of 21-30 days of 1,000 - 2,000 miles from home.

Equation:
Cayenne diesel with Airstream, increased fuel consumption towing and campground fees verse Cayenne and motels!

(I've started a spreadsheet analysis if anyone wants to get tweaking it as a joint project, let me know.)

Jack
Chapel Hill, NC
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Old 11-30-2014, 08:35 PM   #76
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We're starting to focus on a new or slightly used cayenne diesel as a possible towing vehicle for our planned 25' twin FC.

The MB 350 blu tech is the other choice

We' re not getting cogent feedback from the sales reps at dealers regarding what kind of options/packages we need to tow this size trailer.

Since you folks here seem to have the cayenne' down to a science, a little guidance would be appreciated so we don't end up with an inadequate TV. Please try and be specific, as you probably know, the option packages offered by Porsche are endless and confusing.

interesting up here (unless the tow packages cost 5-10K or more), diesels seem to be going for less than gas models. Maybe the delta between fuel prices in Bay Area.

Thanks to all
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:29 AM   #77
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Pulling with a Cayenne Diesel is certainly the super luxury vehicle to use. Cost of operation.... I am guessing, if one tows like I do, up to 20,000 miles in a year, with maintenance on a Porsche (7 to date) it may be an expensive journey. And when towing behind a big diesel pickup truck with the reserve power and weight combined with extra length, the overall towing experience may be much better with a truck. And in the long run, I am again guessing, but the Cayenne once it has towed for 50,000 miles may be a maintenance hog.

I am a Porsche driver since my first given to me by my Daddy in 1960 and it is in my blood. But I prefer my big Dodge for jobs like towing, my 996 Cab for touring like my recent run to Palm Desert, about 6,000 miles.

If one can afford a Cayenne maybe to have a big diesel pickup is also in the budget.... And garage space....LOL


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Old 12-04-2014, 09:26 AM   #78
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What trailer is being towed in video by Cayenne?

Just spoke with Airstream corp. and they told me the trailer being towed between the pylons is a 23' Airstream.

Thus, seems from watching the video that a 23, having the tandem axle, is a great length to tow behind the Cayenne. Will give us the twin axles for a smoother ride and better protection in the event of a tire blowout BUT more importantly, a separate shower and toilet to keep my wife happy.
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Old 12-05-2014, 12:40 PM   #79
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Tommie/Ms. Moto -

I think that any vehicle subjected to that level of towing for 50-60-70k miles will have higher ongoing maintenance costs due to higher stresses & more wear & tear on them - & more so the larger/heavier the trailer(s) are.

I know Big 3 1/2T & 3/4T pick-up owners who tow a lot & run into the same thing at that level of miles - including ball joints & suspension bushings etc., so it's a fact of life.

Same thing holds true for folks who track/race &/or autocross with their cars/suvs of all makes - more wear/tear/stress makes for more repairs & maintenance earlier in life, than if only freeway cruising & grocery/soccer mom/dad usage.

However, most good mechanics I know also recommend doing fluid changes more frequently than the factory schedule to avoid some of the wear, perhaps to the point of halving the motor & gear oil, trans/transfer case/diff fluids/oils, coolant, brake & PS fluids changes. On the above noted Cayenne Diesel that would make it 2-3k per oil change, if 5k is the factory recco.

Jack/Tao -

Was that a gas V6 or V8 Cayenne "Loaner" that you were comparing to your diesel?

Most dealerships usually use the base level Cayenne gas V6 for loaners (same at Hertz etc. for rentals), which will be much less powerful than the diesel V6 - but most who drive the V8 not towing find it a more powerful & responsive vehicle, except at low rpm's where the diesel torque comes on sooner.

Your TV usage seems to be close to what we'll have, although maybe not the annual long trip towing. IIRC the Cayenne Diesel article linked below gives the mpg whilst towing in there of an 25' AS.

Correction - he got 16.4 mpg (US) towing a 30' AS tandem axle at mostly highway speeds of 65 mpg according to the article which I just reread.

Jack/Tao & Estoniankid -

I'd suggest that you talk to Andy Thompson at CanAm RV up by Toronto about setting up any Cayenne - gas or diesel - for towing (or Taureg &/or other smaller TV). Also look at their videos & read his articles in Hitch Hints section of their Canadian RV Lifestyles magazine linked at his CanAm website - especially the one on the CayDiesel.

Can-Am RV Centre | Your Towing Experts
Can-Am RV :: Hitch Hints

RV Lifestyle - Vol. 41 No. 7 - jump to pg 6 for CayDiesel

Aside from asking Andy about the MBZ ML/GL, BMW X5, Taureg, Audi Q7, etc. Luxe SUVs in comparison, you can also do a search on here for any of those other diesel SUVs you've mentioned, & there are folks who have written about their TV experience with them in several other forum topics as well - although not necessarily in a topic on say the ML350 per se.

To me, the more maintenance intensive that I find the Cayenne Diesel is - plus the huge purchase price difference between an `06-10 V8 Cay-S, the more sense it makes to me for our particular low mileage/minimal annual use needs to go with the V8 gasser.

Estoniankid -

If it were me looking to order one new - & similarly, as I'm looking at options on the used Cayenne S's for us - the key ones for towing that I'd look for are:

1st & foremost - the factory tow option (also talk to Andy T about reinforcement of that hitch's welds/etc. for WD hitches).

> Likewise, if you're willing & able to buy a new Cayenne, then also spend the top dollar to protect your new AS+Porsche rig wit a top WD/Anti-Sway hitch like a Hensley, ProPride & maybe another maker (??). I'm just saying, it's cheap insurance to spend $2-3K for a fancy & bullet-proof hitch for a $60-80k+ SUV!

2nd - the set of options they require to get the rear view camera & that camera option (aftermarket stuff you add can cause warranty problems with Porsche BTW). Makes hooking-up so much easier! Really! I don't see why a luxe SUV maker like Porsche isn't including them on ALL Cayennes now & for years, especially considering that they're required on ALL USA vehicle in 2016!

3rd - the rear cargo handling package option (& with or add rear area divider grate thingy, if that's still offered) to safely load your trip goodies & luggage, & keep it out of the passenger area should there be an accident or need for quick maneuvers.

4th - the roof rack/rail option & so you can expand your cargo volume - if not the cargo weight capacity - with the various cargo boxes, bike & ski/board racks & other carriers they offer. Of course then you need to hoist stuff up there!

Beyond that - it's up to personal taste, needs & desires for options, but remember that they also tend add weight - thereby cutting into your payload, as well as being something else that can go wrong, and helping PAG make obscene profits on the options, while quickly climbing to the $100k mark & beyond at the sticker!

Also, IMHO it's better to stick with their 17" or 18" wheels with the taller profile tires (taller sidewalls) for both wider & better priced replacement tire choices (& they will go about every 20k miles!), as well as a better ride - especially while towing. I also prefer the simpler 5 solid spoke style factory wheels (not sure if it's still offered), with less spokes & fillagree BS to have to clean & detail in-&-around that the upgrade & upsized wheel choices have. I'm more old school on the simple alloy wheel styles in general anyway.

My 2 cents anyhoo!
Tom
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Old 12-05-2014, 12:54 PM   #80
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Hi Tom,
Please note inserts below.
Jack

[QUOTE=Tom_T;1549911]Tommie/Ms. Moto -

Jack/Tao -

Was that a gas V6 or V8 Cayenne "Loaner" that you were comparing to your diesel?

It was a very well equipped gas Cayenne, I believe as poorly as it handled it must have been a 6, sure would hope so. Dealer treats me well as we usually trade in a Porsche every year. Next time I take the diesel in for service I'll specifically ask for a V8 gas.

Jack/Tao & Estoniankid -

I'd suggest that you talk to Andy Thompson at CanAm RV up by Toronto about setting up any Cayenne - gas or diesel - for towing (or Taureg &/or other smaller TV). Also look at their videos & read his articles in Hitch Hints section of their Canadian RV Lifestyles magazine linked at his CanAm website - especially the one on the CayDiesel.

Can-Am RV Centre | Your Towing Experts
Can-Am RV :: Hitch Hints

RV Lifestyle - Vol. 41 No. 7 - jump to pg 6 for CayDiesel

Aside from asking Andy about the MBZ ML/GL, BMW X5, Taureg, Audi Q7, etc. Luxe SUVs in comparison, you can also do a search on here for any of those other diesel SUVs you've mentioned, & there are folks who have written about their TV experience with them in several other forum topics as well - although not necessarily in a topic on say the ML350 per se.

Thanks for the links and I'll give Andy a call as well progress with this mission.
Jack


To me, the more maintenance intensive that I find the Cayenne Diesel is - plus the huge purchase price difference between an `06-10 V8 Cay-S, the more sense it makes to me for our particular low mileage/minimal annual use needs to go with the V8 gasser.

Assuming it was a V6 that I drove, and that you are satisfied with the V8, I'd have to agree with you. That fuel filter cost is a joke, and still, non-towing oil change every 5K is nuts considering we are using Mobil 1!
Jack
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Old 12-07-2014, 03:54 PM   #81
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Jack,

I - like you - am still in the looking phase, so acquisition price is a big consideration, as are ongoing maintenance & operation, insurance, fuel, etc. costs - especially since this will essentially be an "extra" vehicle only necessitated by the need for a TV because I'm tired of a different rental truck/suv every time & their limits on not going out of state, as well as the rental costs approaching ownership costs if we do a few more trips per year.

So go by the other posters who have actually towed with the V8 CayS.

Another item that I'd add to my desired option list above, is to get a full sized spare tire - rather than their inflatable limited use one or a "can of goo" that all mfgrs seem to be sticking in their cars nowadays. I'm not sure that run flats would be any good either when towing.

PS - I'm not swayed by the paltry improvement in gas mileage on the base V6 Cayenne vs the V8 "S" - all or most of which will disappear when towing! Plus there are more Cayenne S's out there in the used market, so I'm leaning that way.

However, the Macan is supposed to come out next year with the 3.0 V6TDI used in the Cayenne Diesel, & it tows about 5000# & is a lot nicer styling & more compact size than the Cayenne! Heck, both the Macan S & Turbo have that tow rating & plenty of low end torque thanx to the TT engines!

But then, I'm not in the new market ..... but it never hurts to drool! ;-)

Tom
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Old 12-07-2014, 09:39 PM   #82
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Just a quick insert here, the Cayenne diesel absolutely needs oil changes at the recomended interval, as well as fuel filter changes, any diesel requires very regular oil and filter changes these diesels are very high tech and very finicky, oil type and change interval must be followed, fuel filter as well, the oil changes also corresponds approximately to the DEF refill milage. There are no "towing packages" or options beyond the tow bar and related brake light electronics. If you plan on performing more regular transmission fluid changes, which I HIGHLY recomend, just keep in mind that will set you back close to $800 as the fluid itself is $75 a liter and it requires 8-10 liters, plus cost of filter and seal and we use the scan tool to fill the transmission. I would not trust ANY independent repair shop with any cayenne, panamera or 997.2 and up Porsche, just too much technology and too much to go wrong, you will save your self in the long run with the support and security you get from the dealer with factory backing. Including goodwill and warranty repairs that porsche extends to vehicles that are regularly serviced at the dealer. you wouldn't believe how many vehicles I see where we are the "last option" for a problem the customer has spent thousands on at different "German sprcialist" shops only to have to tell them they have wasted their money on incorrect diagnosis, I am very familiar with the problem, and unfortunately for them if they had brought the vehicle in for regular maintanance we would have caught it before it became anything major. Unfortunately there are no full size spare tires as an option, only inflatable spares, which is also an option. When looking at the tongue weight spec you must keep in mind the GVW of the Cayenne minus the unloaded vehicle with all options leaves little cargo capacity, this number must include the occupants as well as the full tongue weight of the trailer, hitches etc. there is no getting around this. The base curb weight is just that, base, the actual advertised curb weight with options is around 5,700 total for the S and 5,900 for the turbo, total vehicle capacity (Porsche calls gvw "maximum load capacity") is 6,700 or so. There is no reinforcing the hitch or else wise that will increase total vehicle capacity. The v6 has an even lower total capacity. I spoke with Tom and agree that the Cayenne is good for the weight trailer he is looking to tow, as long as he goes in prepared for the maintanance costs. I would advise against pushing a Cayenne to its total advertised towing numbers, I think it would be okay with anything up to about 5000 lbs, but the total vehicle weight becomes the limiting factor. That kind of weight also for thousands of miles, well I honestly don't know, I see most first gen Cayenne's that are struggling to pass 100,000 miles of regular driving.
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Old 12-07-2014, 10:51 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Franswa View Post
Just a quick insert here, the Cayenne diesel absolutely needs oil changes at the recomended interval, as well as fuel filter changes, any diesel requires very regular oil and filter changes these diesels are very high tech and very finicky, oil type and change interval must be followed, fuel filter as well, the oil changes also corresponds approximately to the DEF refill milage. There are no "towing packages" or options beyond the tow bar and related brake light electronics. If you plan on performing more regular transmission fluid changes, which I HIGHLY recomend, just keep in mind that will set you back close to $800 as the fluid itself is $75 a liter and it requires 8-10 liters, plus cost of filter and seal and we use the scan tool to fill the transmission. I would not trust ANY independent repair shop with any cayenne, panamera or 997.2 and up Porsche, just too much technology and too much to go wrong, you will save your self in the long run with the support and security you get from the dealer with factory backing. Including goodwill and warranty repairs that porsche extends to vehicles that are regularly serviced at the dealer. you wouldn't believe how many vehicles I see where we are the "last option" for a problem the customer has spent thousands on at different "German sprcialist" shops only to have to tell them they have wasted their money on incorrect diagnosis, I am very familiar with the problem, and unfortunately for them if they had brought the vehicle in for regular maintanance we would have caught it before it became anything major. Unfortunately there are no full size spare tires as an option, only inflatable spares, which is also an option. When looking at the tongue weight spec you must keep in mind the GVW of the Cayenne minus the unloaded vehicle with all options leaves little cargo capacity, this number must include the occupants as well as the full tongue weight of the trailer, hitches etc. there is no getting around this. The base curb weight is just that, base, the actual advertised curb weight with options is around 5,700 total for the S and 5,900 for the turbo, total vehicle capacity (Porsche calls gvw "maximum load capacity") is 6,700 or so. There is no reinforcing the hitch or else wise that will increase total vehicle capacity. The v6 has an even lower total capacity. I spoke with Tom and agree that the Cayenne is good for the weight trailer he is looking to tow, as long as he goes in prepared for the maintanance costs. I would advise against pushing a Cayenne to its total advertised towing numbers, I think it would be okay with anything up to about 5000 lbs, but the total vehicle weight becomes the limiting factor. That kind of weight also for thousands of miles, well I honestly don't know, I see most first gen Cayenne's that are struggling to pass 100,000 miles of regular driving.

Thanks for the very informative post


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Old 12-07-2014, 11:30 PM   #84
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So glad to be a member of this forum

Many thanks to all for your input

This dream setup my be too rich for my tastes

Up front cost are one thing, but the maintenance alone on these things....
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