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Old 11-24-2014, 08:34 PM   #57
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Input on Porsche Cayenne as TV (& 928's??)

I've driven the Aisin 8 speed and much prefer the programming and smoothness of the ZF....strange that Porsche and VW stick with Aisin while Audi specs the ZF across their line including RS models (rs6/rs7). It really is a marvel.
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Old 11-24-2014, 08:41 PM   #58
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Audi has engine transmission sets, cayenne's that use audi motors (hybrid and diesel) use the audi transmissions and transfer cases as well
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Old 11-24-2014, 09:19 PM   #59
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I'm looking for members on here with real world Cayenne towing experience for input,
Last year, while visiting CanAm I drove a Cayenne diesel hooked up to a 28' International with an EZ-Lift custom hitch. It pulled, handled much better than my '12 ML BT. Definitely the best tow vehicle I've ever driven; IMHO.

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Old 11-24-2014, 10:33 PM   #60
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Well, I left a post to finish when the plumber came & 6 hours later including moving the Avion back in it's spot with my Power Mover dolly & setting up for home use 'til the next trip in 2015 - Air Forums logged me out & lost the post when I finished up a few minutes ago & hit submit Reply! .... steeewpid! ()&*&^$#$#@%^%*(!!!!

Anyhooo ..... not going to revisit all that again, & a bunch of folks have submitted some good info & interesting stories.

Tommie .... not sure of the statute of limitations, but a great story. I think folks underrate the Cayenne - especially the Treg folks who think theirs are the same thing with a differnt badge. Not so! And I think Franswa has said what I was thinking about the gear hunting being more pronounced in the Turbo due to the different mapping.

Franswa - I thought that the dealer had to do something with the onboard computers to remap stuff for shift points etc. - that to do more than just recognize TT lights?

If not, what the heck are they getting $2500 around here at P-dealers to install a hitch & light controller box for anyway!?

Good info for me on the tranny valve body too. I'll call you as we discussed when I can get caught up here & no more plumbing issues.

Good feedback Rawn & comparing the MBZ.

We got back from a 500 mile RT tow job for a vintage trailer camp-out north of Santa Barbara this past weekend with a rented brand new 2015 Ford F250 3/4T 5.7 or 6.0 gas V8 (no markings on motor) with 39 miles to start with. So it got 10.2-10.4 with our without the trailer & could've cared less if it were there. The prior 2 Dodge Ram 2500s with 5.7 & 6.3L V8s (they mark their motors or badge!) were about the same, with the 5.7 at maybe 12 mpg, so I suspect the F250 was 6L something, altho trans & diff gearing can do that too.

So I suspect the series 1 & 2 Cayenne S will get mid-teens while towing, when our 3000# +/- little Avion is pulled.

Cory - I like the idea of the TTV6 in the Macan - & would wait for a V6TDI in them in a year or so, or else the Cayenne Diesel if I were buying new as a TV+3rd-car, but can't see putting that much into a new car, only to lose 20-25% of it off the lot & then only drive it 3-5000 mi/yr. That's why the gently used CayS makes more sense to me at least.

Plus if we find a nice one mostly all original, then I can also do "Preservation Class"concours (10 yrs old & 75% original int & ext. & driveline) with our local PCA Zone 8 regions - whenever it reaches that age, as well as the driving events for fun.

I'd be happy with the newer Cayenne Diesels, but like I said before - I can buy a lot of premium for a Cayenne S with the $10-40k price difference.

I agree IMHO that ZF is a better trans, but all the new vehicles are going to be off the road whenever they reach "Classics" age, cuz nobody will be supporting computers & chips for 25 year old cars/trucks!

Whenever I get a chance to download the pix of the F250 in our tight driveway, I'll post some to clearly show why a full size truck/suv won't work for us - aside from the fact that my wife won't drive them.

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 11-25-2014, 01:08 PM   #61
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PS to Cory Can -

I kinda feel that the new CayS with V6TT is a step down & they should still offer the S with a V8, but understand that all makers are switching to smaller turbo motors with higher output due to CAFE mpg requirements getting higher.

I'd rather have seen Porsche do another new sub-model - say named "Cayenne Turbo" for the V6TT - & keep the S, GTS & Turbo S as V8s & just limit production to numbers which still allow them to meet CAFE. Ditto with the Diesel V6TDI, & a new "Diesel S" for the V8TDI diesel from Europe.
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Old 11-25-2014, 01:37 PM   #62
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Input on Porsche Cayenne as TV (& 928's??)

Step down? Haha. That's just old "displacement" thinking. The new S will be a better driving experience in every way. More peak HP, higher and more useable torque. It's quicker and faster (even than current V8 GTS) with better fuel economy. You should probably drive their V6TT and decide if you feel the same way you do now....I suspect you wouldn't. New FI technology and programming no longer have "turbo lag".....they are smooth and powerful with lots of low end grunt and impressive peak HP.
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Old 11-25-2014, 04:34 PM   #63
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The number of cylinders may not be so important with diesels. My 6 cylinder Cummins diesel puts out better torque than most V8 diesels.... Like probably way over 700 lb ft.

Porsche has done things their way for a long, long time. My first was a 1958 356A 1600 Normal Coupe, given to me in 1960. Have had a few since and continue to enjoy their strange way of doing things....LOL 😍
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Old 11-26-2014, 02:34 PM   #64
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The number of cylinders may not be so important with diesels. My 6 cylinder Cummins diesel puts out better torque than most V8 diesels.... Like probably way over 700 lb ft.

Porsche has done things their way for a long, long time. My first was a 1958 356A 1600 Normal Coupe, given to me in 1960. Have had a few since and continue to enjoy their strange way of doing things....LOL 😍
I'm a `73 914-2.0 "914-S" owner since 1975 right out of college, so I hear ya!

Their Euro V8 Diesel Cayenne (Diesel S ?) has even better specs HP & TQ that the V6, but they don't want to run the USA EPA & DOT gauntlet yet again for limited sales here I suspect.

We really need worldwide standards for safety, mpg, etc. so the manufacturers can build to one set of requirements & use R&D money on advancements instead + be able to send a vehicle to any market worldwide without additional hoops.

.... of course I really doubt that will happen, short an Orwellian future!
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Old 11-26-2014, 03:59 PM   #65
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Kudos to Franswa - who is a Porsche dealer gold certified tech, who spent about an hour on the phone with me last night covering the intricacies, quirks & problems with Cayennes.

He's cooled my interest in the early Series 1 Cayenne S 2003-05, & all but maybe a late 2006 Titanium Edition - & again I'm refocusing to Series 2 2008-10 or maybe an upcoming well priced off-lease Series 3 2011-14 S or Diesel (2013-14). In all cases I'm looking for a low mileage (+/- 70-80k mi or less) & preferably original owner or a perfect 2nd owner vehicle with immaculate service records & less than recco fluid changes + the key fixes done timely before problems arise.

As a side note, I still could also look at a Toyota Land Cruiser or V8 4Runner, VW Taureg - esp. in TDI form or V8, BMW X5 V8 or diesel, or MBZ ML350 or 550 diesel or V8, V8 Ford Explorer, etc. if something cherry came along & checked out as great condition in a pro PPI.

For others who may read this later, here's a summary of the skinny ....

First few years were a problem with a bunch of stuff going wrong & the kinks needing ironed out - as is often the case with any makers' new vehicles. My Dad used to say to stay away from the first year or two of ANY makers' new models (or significant redesigns).

Series 1 Cayenne:
2003 - Horrific - many service & tech notices came out
2004 - some improvement, but still horrible
2005 - getting better, but still a lot of tech & service advisories (fixes)
2006 - better still, but not as good as the Series 2

Aside from the teething & initial quality/QC problems, the key issues are:

The plastic coolant pipes on the engine need to be retrofitted preemptively along with the starter & water pump. If they weren't replaced until after they leaked down into the transmission/starter, then there can be all sorts of problems with the seals & transmission needing replacement or rebuilding. IIRC VW Taureg & Audi Q7 both had the plastic coolant pipes too, so this would be a fixit item there too.

Also they had problems on the early ones & some later with the individual ignition coils per cylinder were failing, so they had a factory tech bulletin to replace them with a new coil design.

Beyond that, the bushings on the lower front control arms wear out at 40-60-80,000 mi or so & can't be replaced - plus the ball joints are going bad by then, so it's a full lower control arm replacement cost & labor.

Likewise, the center supporting bushing on the Kardan Shaft (driveshaft) wears at about that time too, & likewise can't be replaced - so that's a full shaft replacement.

The high pressure fuel pumps (almost as high as diesel at 200 bar) in all series tend to go after a point & need replacement.

They all need timing belts, tensioners, etc. & water pump replaced on service interval (IIRC that was +/- 60k or so).

Also on all, the oil & other fluid changes per factory recco are too long & should be shortened or halved - especially in the early MYs, & the factory or longer changes can gunk up the motor valve train, transmission, F & R differentials, &/or transfer cases works (solenoids, actuators, etc.) such that it causes repairs needed later on, but earlier than if changed more often.

Franswa suggested a quick test for valve train problems when looking over a Cayenne: while still in park floor the accellerator up to redline & hold a few seconds & then let off - if it stumbles when back at idle, then you have an expensive valve train repair waiting!

They all need a 4 wheel alignment on a good machine annually - or more often if bad roads &/or off-roading.

All of them also need the "water box" area between the firewall & windshield base checked at every service to see that the drains are clear & no leaves/etc. built up, because they mount computers, controllers & other electronics in there - which don't do well when wet. Wet front carpets & windows steaming or fogging up ar an indicator of this water problem.

2006 Titanium Edition - I didn't realize it, but this was a late model year carry-over or "continuation model" used until the Series 2 came out in 2008 MY (& some were still being sold new then).

2007 - No Cayenne

Series 2 Cayenne:
2008-2010 - changed to direct fuel injection (DFI), so the valves don't get washed off by the fuel coming into the intakes, & they need to have the valves media-blasted/vacuumed (special tool/machine) when built up carbon deposits on the valves get too much & causing running problems. No to fellow oldtimers - we can't go out & run it hard to blast off the crud like in the old days!

They fixed most of the series 1 problems, including switched to metal coolant pipes on the engine - except 1 plastic under the distribution box (term?) which still needs replacement, as does the original coolant dist. box with the glued connections need to be replaced with the Porsche fix is a screw connector to the alum. box - & the engine need to be dropped to access them.

The lower front control arms & Kardan shaft (drive shaft) central bearing/support continue to be long term maintenance items.

2008 still used the earlier radio units, while 2009> use a later unit with a hard drive which some are now coming back for replacement. The older one was a bit funky to some & not as good as the newer unit.

And the Nav option is required to have the factory rear-view camera option, which wasn't available until 2006 MY.

Series 3 Cayenne:
2011-2014 - lighter body, slightly better fuel economy in the S V8
2013-2014 - 3.0L V6TDI Cayenne Diesel
We didn't cover these as much due to out of our budget at current prices for the diesel, but maybe after 36 month leases rollover. Also they're generally too new to have much coming back to the dealers yet.

They did switch to the 8-speed ZF transmission in 2011> as noted above.

Series 4 Cayenne:
2015> - brand new & just out, but no more V8 "S" - it's a TTV6 now as noted above by Cory Can, with only a V8 in the Turbo.

Consumer Reports loves them & the Series 2 & 3 (after bashing the Series 1), as does Andy T. at CanAm for TV duty.

Franswa warns about using them to tow at their max limits - although I know that many can & do with the Toureg & Cayenne, and that they have a relatively low payload. For us with a 3-3500# vintage TT & just 2, he thinks we're probably fine.

Note that ALL series V8 Cayennes (S, GTS, Turbo S, etc.) use a lot of gas typical of most V8s weighing in at +/- 5000#, & all eat tires in 15-20,000 miles too - perhaps helped along by the fact that they're fun to drive aggressively & most have softer performance tires on them.

Also, they & their VW & Audi cousins are premium or luxury SUVs - so parts, repairs & maintenence costs are going to be priced acoordingly higher than some other domestic & imported TV candidates - although IMHO prices for Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infinity & USA Big 3 parts-n-labor is not really far off anymore, since they're all using the same group of suppliers.

Additionally, read the other posts by Franswa & other posters on some of the issues which have come up. I'm probably forgetting some of the things from Franswa & that I've read heard elsewhere, but I blame it on my half-zymers - I only remember half the stuff, half the time!


NOTE TO USED/PRE-OWNED CAYENNE BUYERS:
"Excellence" magazine has their annual buyer's guide Reviews of Cayenne (& all models), & the PCA "Panamera" member magazine has "Tech Tips" which cover the Cayenne issues (& other models' too), and are well worth reading to get up to speed with them if you're considering a Cayenne - whether or not as a TV.


For me - I tend to keep & keep up my cars .... forever .... as you might tell by being the original owner of 2 of our 3 cars & 2nd owner of the 3rd, they being 1985 & 88 + 1973 respectively. We also only put less than 6,000 miles on the former 2 daily drivers PER YEAR & the `73 is under a long & slow restoration.

So I would foresee us maybe putting 3-5,000 mi/yr on the Cayenne as TV & "3rd car" - with possibly a bit more if we decided on a longer cross country trek or tow from time to time, & therefore plan to keep it indefinitely too, letting it too age into a classic vehicle as well!

More Cayenne TV towing input & ownership experience is still welcome - good & bad! .... and of course anything fun about 928!

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 11-26-2014, 09:57 PM   #66
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The history of the Cayennes is interesting...had both 2004 and 2005 Cayenne Turbos......lots of glitches, but what a performer....Very, very expensive car to drive with the depreciation kinda like a rock off a cliff....from $103M to $37M after about 50,000 miles....

But, the new ones sound pretty good now that some of the real issues are solved. I would certainly caution anyone about purchasing an older used model....for any price. You can spend a lot of money on repairs and have so much into it one could have bought much newer.
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Old 11-27-2014, 04:27 PM   #67
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I am probably too late to the table on this discussion ( an appropriate analogy, it being Thanksgiving and all) but would like to chime in on the question as it relates to the abilities of the Porsche Cayenne S.

We own a 2006 S with 80k miles, bought it when two years old with about 22k on it. I consistently say that one should not be so enamored by a hunk of metal, but I truly love this vehicle, it has flair, agility, speed and in my estimation, great towing capabilities. We bought it to tow some sort of trailer long before we ever took the plunge this past March and purchased a 2014 27ft FB International Onyx edition. We have replaced all the problem items discussed, e.g. cooling issue, drive line etc., but in my opinion the upkeep has not been that much more than on a domestic vehicle, and if there is a marginal difference the aforementioned flash is well worth it.

I will say that I was a bit hesitant with the size of the trailer, but my oh so lovely wife insisted on a walk-around bed- and there you have it. The Cayenne has handled the trailer better than I could have imagined- it really is amazing! We've pulled some pretty intimidating hills with what we call the "Radio Flyer", "Flyer" for short (its what Porsche calls Pure Red), and it handled them with "ease" 45 to 50 mph, in third gear @ 4,000 rpms. ( it aint a diesel, but much more sexy and a darn-sire faster when not towing) . Recently we took our longest trip, Avila Beach CA (home) 1200 miles round trip to the Oregon border, up Highway 1, which is notorious for twisties and grades along with drops to the ocean that could make a seasoned tower's palms sweat...again the Cayenne did incredibly well. Actually had many drive by craning their necks and giving us two thumbs up! As for fuel "economy", we get about 17mpg around town and when towing average 12 mpg ( we have added an after-market FabSpeed exhaust system which helps all aspects of towing, including making the Flyer sound, close your ears Mom, "really bitchin".

I could go on and on, but won't, turkey is about to be put on the table, but one of the things I really enjoy is each time we take the "Dream" out behind the "Flyer" we have at least 5 people ask " can that really pull that?, proudly I say, "with ease, piece of cake".

Finally, and I won't claim to have read all the responses in the string, and it may have already been addressed, but someone posted Airstream's performance video wherein the person opined that the tow vehicle was a Cayenne 6-cylinder...just as an FYI, it is not, it is actually a Cayenne Turbo, one can tell from the large grill configuration on the left and right of the center grill.

Hope this helps...

Happy Thanksgiving to all who read this.

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Old 11-28-2014, 05:58 PM   #68
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Hope you had a FULL-filling Turkey Day Logrider & All!

Great post & info Logrider, & no - not too late! We're still looking around.

Plus, this topic was intended to live on for any others in the future considering the Cayenne as a TV (or a 928 ), so they can search topics & find a topic specific to the Cayenne as a TV. If we actually end up with one, then I plan to post some follow-ups for folks too.

What year is your "S"?

And, what!? ... No Pix of it in tow!!??
.... Same for Ms. Moto/Tommie - pic/pix please

I noticed the post about the Cayenne towing As was actually a Turbo with the wide-mouth grill also, but figured anyone watching it would hear the dialogue that it's a Turbo S (V8).

In HS my 1st car was red - a lowly 1.1L I4 Opel Kadett that had little power - & I still got a ticket every time I turned around! It turned out when we asked a neighbor who was a San Diego PD Lt. in the 1960's that cops look for red #1, orange #2, yellow #3, any other bright color after that - sports cars, muscle cars & convertibles in those are top targets of all! So I repainted my 73 Porsche 914-2.0 in the `75 MY Copper Metallic color - which looked like metallic orange in the sunlight - & had double the problem as with the red Opel 6 years before!

So you're brave to get a screaming RED Porsche Cayenne S & run it around!

Don't know what year your TT is, but we'll be at the Pismo Vintage Trailer Rally come the weekend in mid-May (15-71 I think) at the Pismo Coast Village RV park just a bit down the road from you.

So please do stop by & visit with us & you can either tell my wife how much you like it, or we'll trade stories if we have one by then!

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 11-29-2014, 07:23 PM   #69
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TomT,

Love to post a picture if some nice person will talk me through the process...for the life of me I can't figure it out, and I work with computers every day.
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Old 11-29-2014, 09:02 PM   #70
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Posting a photo is easy if it is first posted on a Flickr account, the BB Code is copied and then pasted into your post on Air-forums.
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