Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-17-2014, 11:15 PM   #29
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Msmoto View Post
Re: Cayenne as TV. If this is not a currently owned vehicle, IMO it is not a great TV. The torque curve is such that it will downshift at 60 mph on the Interstate, uses gas at 10-12 mpg, and has limited range as a result of low fuel mileage. One could drive in fifth gear, fuel mileage may be even worse. And, premium fuel is required if I am not mistaken.

I sold my Cayenne Turbo (450 hp, 460 ft lb) and bought a Dodge Cummins.
Ms Tommie,

I assume that was towing with your Cayenne Turbo S, which gets 1-2 mph lower unhitched than the non-turbo S V8 - so that tracks with our friends getting 12-14 in the non-turbo S & towing non-AS/streamlined trailers, but still lower than I'd have expected.

Which trailer were you towing then & what weight?
.... I see 3 25, 27 & 30' AS's in your info box at left.

I only got 7-10 mpg on the last 2014 Dodge 2500 6.3L V8 gas we rented, but that was more city - the vintage rally only being 20 mins away with a short fwy hop. I've not rented a diesel truck yet, so no idea there, but the prior `14 5.7L 2500 was 10-13 on 450 mi RT SoCal to the Pismo Rally in May.

So the Cayenne S sounds maybe at a slightly better mpg than those gas trucks. However, we still have the driveway space & clearance issue - so we need a smaller than big truck TV.

I'll have to ask more about the downshifting issue you mentioned.

Thanx for the input!
__________________

__________________
Tom T (janabanana48's other half )
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-14 Cayenne S
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner)
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 11:28 PM   #30
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
Great. My reply was lost. Yes you want correct TW percentage as well as best weight distribution afterwards. Same for electronic sway control. Mech is nice but electronic is lightning fast.

St tires are Problem. One day all is good but next week you've a $7000 repair bill. Need TpMS as well


Etc. More when I'm back on laptop


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
Yeah, even my laptop has lost whole posts or emails when I thought they went!

TpMS ?? Is that: Tire Pressure Monitoring System for the trailer tires?

My understanding was that ST tires have stiffer sidewalls & lower rolling resistance for better pulling. I'd also heard horror stories about the run of the mill ST tires sold at CW etc., but that the Maxxis were pretty impregnable if not overstressed, well maintained & not over 5 years or so old from date of mfgr.

Which is why I paid 1.5x - 2x the other ST tires' price for them - to avoid that $7000 damage cost!

I await your other feedback when you get online again.

Also - how much of this list of "costly in aggregate" upgrades needed for pretty much 3-6 local & 400-500 mi trips a year.

I would've thought that a great WD/AS hitch like Hensley, a great brake controller like Tekonsha's top one (in RF form), & top trailer tires would have us covered for safe travel!

Oh & I do plan to do the CAT Scale thing soon, now that I have the how to info you posted here!
__________________

__________________
Tom T (janabanana48's other half )
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-14 Cayenne S
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner)
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 10:37 AM   #31
3 Rivet Member
 
timhortons's Avatar
 
2015 16' Sport
Oakville , Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 234
Images: 29
what about the Cayenne Diesel ? 240HP/405lbs 1000lbs less curb weight than the Q7/Toureg if I recall
__________________
timhortons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 10:54 AM   #32
Rivet Master
 
ALANSD's Avatar

 
1966 26' Overlander
Woodstock , Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
Alan - cool blog you've got there & saw your post about camping in Asheville NC! Our daughter & son-in-law actually moved to the Asheville area in 2011 & bought a house in Candler last year, plus my wife has 2 brothers in Kennesaw GA, so we get back to your neck at least once a year now. Maybe in the Avion at some point post-retirement & then we could do Falluminum or some vintage rallies back in the Smokies.

That is cool...hope to see you at one of our Fall or Spring events. They are a whole lot of fun. You obviously know what you are getting into. Best of luck with whatever direction you go.
__________________
1966 Overlander
AIR #005
Please visit our blogs and web pages:
OUR AIRSTREAM PASSION! BLOG
RESTORING AN AIRSTREAM
Our AIRSTREAM and TIN CAN TOURIST Rallys
ALANSD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 01:28 PM   #33
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by timhortons View Post
what about the Cayenne Diesel ? 240HP/405lbs 1000lbs less curb weight than the Q7/Toureg if I recall
Tim,

Our friends have a `13 diesel & love it over the 2 Cayenne S's they've had before, but it's one of their primary daily drivers + towing. But.....

... the Cayenne Diesel came out in 2013 & used are now selling used at $50-60K+.

Whereas, the`03-06 Cayenne S sells in the $10-20K+/- range, &
`08-`10 Cayenne S sells in the $20-30K+ range

One can buy a heck of a lot of Premium gas in the difference of 14-15/16-18/18-22 mpg gas, to 18-24/24-29/29-34 mpg for the diesel (city/mixed/hwy) for a $20-50K+ difference in purchase price alone - aside from higher maintenance costs with the diesel.

And diesel around here in Sunny SoCal is running $0.10-0.20+/- MORE than Premium.

So the math doesn't make sense to us for a 3rd car/TV.
__________________
Tom T (janabanana48's other half )
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-14 Cayenne S
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner)
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 01:37 PM   #34
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALANSD View Post
That is cool...hope to see you at one of our Fall or Spring events. They are a whole lot of fun. You obviously know what you are getting into. Best of luck with whatever direction you go.
Alan, I just noticed from your sig that you ended up with a Chevy Trailblazer, after reading your posts looking at Touregs & others elsewhere on here!

How has your Trailblazer worked out for you?
... Is it the V8 or V6?
... What year?
... or is it not yet enough time with it?

I looked at the Trailblazer/GMC-twin, Ford Explorer & Dodge Durango/Chrysler-twin with V8's - but was concerned about Consumer Reports, JD Powers & other bad reports on quality & reliability of all Big 3 mid-sized SUVs.

I also thought that they're far more likely to be thrashed by prior owners in 5-10 year old cars, than say a Porsche Cay-S, BMW X5, MBZ M, Audi Q7, VW Treg, etc. premium SUV owner would be - the latter group tending to take better care of them - at least the 1st & 2nd owners.

Tom
///////
__________________
Tom T (janabanana48's other half )
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-14 Cayenne S
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner)
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 01:40 PM   #35
3 Rivet Member
 
timhortons's Avatar
 
2015 16' Sport
Oakville , Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 234
Images: 29
Point Taken. I saw Porsche, and sort of assumed money was no object. Up here in the frozen taxed north diesel is ~same as mid-grade in price.

Forgot also that the deprecation on the early cayennes has been high, which pays for a lot if you can maintain and reliability is decent.

Best Tow Vehicle value is the Grand Caravan Minivan, but it comes with somewhat less cachet than the 928 or porsches.
__________________
timhortons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 02:05 PM   #36
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 553
We have our final vintage camp-out outing for the year this weekend, with a Ford F250 rental lined up, so I'll take some pix of why physically the full size truck/SUV route will NOT work for us - aside from the fact that my wife won't drive one, which sorta defeats the purpose of it the other 250+/- days of the year as our "3rd car."

In the last 2-3 years I've come to know that there are 2 camps out there vehemently holding their own position - big truck folks & smaller TV folks - both sides absolutely convinced they're side is right - kinda like red & blue politics! ...not that I hadn't known it before we got our Avion.

Those above noted pix to come should very clearly show that a full sized truck/suv is just a NO GO for us, and so we're looking in the mid-sized SUV/CUV/SW arena.

In the meantime just for the Halibut, here are some Porsche 928 towing pix I re-found ....

... FYI - 1st 3 are in EU/UK by the plates, 928x2 & boat are USA; ...

... 3rd from last is the factory 928 hitch & 4th & 5th from last are guys in the USA using it for smaller trailers, while 2nd from last is the guy with a Curt 2" receiver by the Lic plate custom modified to fit the 928 & tows his +/- 25' whaler boat/trailer 2-axle with it in AL or down there somewhere; ....

... & the last one is a current 2010> Panamera S V8, which has an electrically operated version of the Euro style hitch like in the 928 below & it's rated on that one for +/- 4800# by TUV & the EU/UK markets.

Heck - if Andy T can tow with Chrysler 300's & Ford Taurus SHO V8's - why not 928 & Panameras!!??
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	post-10181-1358016395.jpg
Views:	407
Size:	93.9 KB
ID:	226922   Click image for larger version

Name:	post-8018-1331161999.jpg
Views:	66
Size:	109.5 KB
ID:	226923  

Click image for larger version

Name:	post-8018-1331161990.jpg
Views:	71
Size:	64.1 KB
ID:	226924   Click image for larger version

Name:	02.jpg
Views:	65
Size:	150.3 KB
ID:	226925  

Click image for larger version

Name:	1980-porsche-928s-5-sp.jpg
Views:	72
Size:	24.3 KB
ID:	226926   Click image for larger version

Name:	Trailer[1].jpg
Views:	122
Size:	122.6 KB
ID:	226927  

Click image for larger version

Name:	928 and trials bike.JPG
Views:	72
Size:	189.4 KB
ID:	226928   Click image for larger version

Name:	928 Factory Towbar.jpg
Views:	78
Size:	21.5 KB
ID:	226929  

Click image for larger version

Name:	post-8920-1330773688_thumb.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	96.8 KB
ID:	226930   Click image for larger version

Name:	spotted_porsche_panamera_towing_a_trailer.jpg
Views:	102
Size:	20.7 KB
ID:	226931  

__________________
Tom T (janabanana48's other half )
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-14 Cayenne S
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner)
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 02:16 PM   #37
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by timhortons View Post
Point Taken. I saw Porsche, and sort of assumed money was no object. Up here in the frozen taxed north diesel is ~same as mid-grade in price.

Forgot also that the deprecation on the early cayennes has been high, which pays for a lot if you can maintain and reliability is decent.

Best Tow Vehicle value is the Grand Caravan Minivan, but it comes with somewhat less cachet than the 928 or porsches.
Tim,

The Grand Caravan V6 - or even its VW Routan twin - would be heavily taxed on the Southwest grades in the hot desert out here. I know Andy T makes them work, but I'd prefer the cushion of V8 power for the loss of 1-3 mpg when towing & not that I'm seeing in the older 5-10 year old cars/suvs, & the city/mixed/hwy mpg of a Cayenne S & similar is about the same as our `88 VW Westfalia, & we have the `85 BMW 325e for 18-22/22-28/30-35+ mpg efficiency.

Any car loses 20-25% first driven off the lot, then proceeds from there & Porsche is no different for any model - Cayenne maybe more so due to it's teething problems when first introduced.

BTW - until this past Sept our son was posted at Ft Drum/Watertown NY just across the river from you (he's in Colo now), & I grew up as a kid until 1963 age 10 in Pittsburgh PA & still have family in the frozen northern tier whom we visit - so I get the frozen bit all too well!

70's here now .... but we desperately need rain!

Oh & not all Porsche owners are rich shmucks! That's why Porsche keeps cancelling the sub-Boxter 718 runabout - so they can keep selling the used Porsches & keep the new cars flowing!! If they only supported classic P-cars with parts that theory would stand!
__________________
Tom T (janabanana48's other half )
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-14 Cayenne S
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner)
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 02:21 PM   #38
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 553
How to contact Franswa??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franswa View Post
I'm a porsche gold meister technician, I'd be happy to answer a few of your questions. Sad to say early the early cayenne is an area of expertise for me.
So Franswa, how to get a hold of you for those questions??

I'd PM'ed to you with my contact info earlier, but no reply.

I appreciate the offer.

PS - I just sent you an email on here with my cell # & email addy to chat about this, in case you don't see your PMs right away.
__________________
Tom T (janabanana48's other half )
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-14 Cayenne S
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner)
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 04:00 PM   #39
4 Rivet Member
 
cory_can's Avatar
 
2015 30' Classic
Calgary , Alberta
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 359
What is your concern specific to towing? The Cayenne chassis would be great as a tow vehicle, health, maintenance and fuel economy are separate topics.

If you feel you need a V8, that's your prerogative. All I know is that the Cayenne V8 has horrible fuel economy, much worse 'real world' compared to EPA ratings and especially the earlier ones with 6 speed transmissions. This is from owners experience in my family. I haven't looked at gear ratios on where you would be at towing speed, but you might want to look at that.

FWIW, I tow a a '15 28' comfortably with the Cayenne's smaller cousin, a Q5 3.0T Petrol which has been setup by Andy at CanAM. The performance of the Q5 with the supercharger is similar to the newer 4.8L in a Cayenne when you take weight etc. into consideration.....I'm sure I get much better fuel economy towing and normal driving. I've found the Q5 is underrated from the factory and the 8 speed ZF is a wonder. You would be wise to consider a slightly newer Cayenne with the 8 speed Aisin.

...and yes, we do have hills in Canada and the temperature does get into the mid 30's (C) in the summer towing months
__________________
'15 Classic
'16 Ram 2500HD CTD 4x4 Limited w/ Air and Ramboxes
Instagram: cory_can
cory_can is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 05:11 PM   #40
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by cory_can View Post
What is your concern specific to towing? The Cayenne chassis would be great as a tow vehicle, health, maintenance and fuel economy are separate topics.

If you feel you need a V8, that's your prerogative. All I know is that the Cayenne V8 has horrible fuel economy, much worse 'real world' compared to EPA ratings and especially the earlier ones with 6 speed transmissions. This is from owners experience in my family. I haven't looked at gear ratios on where you would be at towing speed, but you might want to look at that.

FWIW, I tow a a '15 28' comfortably with the Cayenne's smaller cousin, a Q5 3.0T Petrol which has been setup by Andy at CanAM. The performance of the Q5 with the supercharger is similar to the newer 4.8L in a Cayenne when you take weight etc. into consideration.....I'm sure I get much better fuel economy towing and normal driving. I've found the Q5 is underrated from the factory and the 8 speed ZF is a wonder. You would be wise to consider a slightly newer Cayenne with the 8 speed Aisin.

...and yes, we do have hills in Canada and the temperature does get into the mid 30's (C) in the summer towing months
Thanx Cory - that's actually good input for me.

I really like the new Q5 & it's newer cousin - the Macan, but am trying to stay away from added complexity of a turbo petrol or diesel if possible, and a new anything isn't really in the cards for us at this time. Excellent styling on the Macan & about 4400# TW capacity.

From the SoCal Cayenne S owners I know - both 4.5L & 4.8L non-turbo - their experience with both tire wear & fuel economy is directly linked to right foot action!

When did the 8 spd come out? 2011 or 2015??

Cheers!
Tom
///////
__________________
Tom T (janabanana48's other half )
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-14 Cayenne S
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner)
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 05:25 PM   #41
4 Rivet Member
 
cory_can's Avatar
 
2015 30' Classic
Calgary , Alberta
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
Thanx Cory - that's actually good input for me.

I really like the new Q5 & it's newer cousin - the Macan, but am trying to stay away from added complexity of a turbo petrol or diesel if possible, and a new anything isn't really in the cards for us at this time. Excellent styling on the Macan & about 4400# TW capacity.

From the SoCal Cayenne S owners I know - both 4.5L & 4.8L non-turbo - their experience with both tire wear & fuel economy is directly linked to right foot action!

When did the 8 spd come out? 2011 or 2015??

Cheers!
Tom
///////
8 speed came in 2011 on the Cayenne.

Since you mentioned Macan, it uses a PDK which I wouldn't use for towing.

Q5 in NA is also rated at 4400lbs regardless of engine....2.0, 3.0T and 3.0 TDI....which is obviously bogus

Q5 in Germany is rated at 5500lbs...same suspension, tires etc.....with no weight distribution.

With WD (using CanAM re-enforcement) my 28' is a breeze with excellent stability.

The point is that if my Q5 tows well, a Cayenne will tow your trailer easily....probably even the NA V6.
__________________
'15 Classic
'16 Ram 2500HD CTD 4x4 Limited w/ Air and Ramboxes
Instagram: cory_can
cory_can is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 05:45 PM   #42
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 553
These are links to some of the AS related reviews with Cayenne TV which I'd read recently to formulate some idea that it or the Toureg V8 (V10TDI) would make good smaller TVs for our needs. Others considering a Cayenne & reading here might also find them helpful.

But those are one time or short term tests/tows, whereas I'm looking for more long term expereince with others towing TTs with Cayenne S V8 - or even from V6 & TDI ones too.

2005 Airstream Safari Review

London RV Show + New Showroom + Porsche

... here's a better direct link to Andy T.'s Cayenne TDI test full article:
RV Lifestyle - Vol. 41 No. 7 .... starting on page 6

... here's the CanAm website with his "Hitch Hint's" articles - the Cayenne one is in vol. 41-7 - Can-Am RV :: Hitch Hints

This also has an AS 25FB towed by `10 Treg TDI near the bottom for those folks - nice looking rig, posted there by jfsheck - a member here too.

Cayenne Tow Hitch - Questions - Rennlist Discussion Forums

I can't completely rule out the TDI Cayenne or Toureg, but cost vs V8 is an issue & the numbers don't work well on the cost side - although do well on the TQ & MPG side.

As for the V6 gasser - read post #50 by jsheck at this link on here, for my concerns with it - even though our vintage 20'er is less TT than his 25FB...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...y-53163-4.html

Many similar experiences & feedback from the other Treg & Cayenne owners with whom I've spoken or read about, including this guy from Sandy UT & his Cayenne S + 20'-ish boxy TT in the pic below....

PS _ just saw Cory's reply after submitting this, so that's why I'd go V8 vs V6 - not that folks don't tow well with the V6 Cayenne, & the gas V6 vs V8 mpgs are very close hitched or bare, so I don't see a huge deficit to the V8.

And both V6 & V8 eat up the soft-n-sticky tires which Porsche reccos for them, but that new Pirelli Scorpion one() is supposedly far better - or at least warranted pro-rata to go longer.

Any more real world long term Cayenne towing input?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net-10181-1358017071.1.jpg
Views:	72
Size:	58.7 KB
ID:	226965  
__________________

__________________
Tom T (janabanana48's other half )
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-14 Cayenne S
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner)
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Porsche Cayenne Diesel pman Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 20 02-03-2015 05:38 PM
Porsche Cayenne V6 or s socool69 Tow Vehicles 27 01-21-2015 06:28 AM
Porsche Cayenne with Airstream & SOB cameront120 Tow Vehicles 7 06-23-2008 01:29 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.