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Old 08-27-2016, 02:28 PM   #43
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Greghoro, That was an interesting article with some unusual points & discussion about the differences between ½ & ¾ ton trucks. Thanks for posting.


Mach,

After research turns into large volumes or crazy miles towing A.S.s with what is commonly known as half ton series trucks. You find CVWR & axle ratings are the most useful. Naturally combined with the use of a scale & a no sway WDH.

Tongue weight & payload are somewhat useful before you purchase a trailer & TV to see if you are in the ballpark. As I am sure you know the tongue weight figure they list is going to be the best case scenario before options let alone wet.

So I just want to say don't take a payload rating as a hard number. I agree whole heartily in being careful to choose & optimize a halfer to tow a wet 28 or 30' AS. I have seen loaded up wet especially 34' triple axles get to 10,000 pounds and that is a lot for any even new and optimized halfer to safely tow & control well.


My own truck weights 5,700 with me, only has a CVWR of 14,500, max tow rating of 8,800 and a CAWR of 7,800. (Max Ram CVWR rating I've seen is 15,950) I can put up to about 2,100 on the truck and or a load & tow of around 8,800 between the TT & the TV. I have had loads and trips a little over 15,000 CVWR.

The truck handled, braked, climbed & descended grades safely & kept cool with my normal towing drive routine. My trucks weakest link is cooling. So I will drop a gear below 1-1 & keep it in the max torque range so as not to heat it up. I'm not flying at this point but still passing semis up the grades. The next young driver might go up the grade loaded as such at WOT until he finds a problem.

Still in order to do so I picked a truck with the lowest gear set, tow package/trailer brake controller, used a no sway WDH, upgraded load rating tires, added axle to frame air bags for more stability & weight transfer and used a tune with engine compression braking for coming down grades. In fact loaded as such the truck can comfortably control the speed coming down a grade with only the compression braking & trailer assist braking. Ie I wouldn't have to use the truck brakes except for emergency.

Could the truck have done much more?.. Not really not safely & reliably IMO. So per your point if someone had say a 30' loaded up & wet classic that weighed in at 10,000 it would be at bit much on the grades or across the gusty plains for any halfer IMO.

BTW I deliver new AS from the manufacturer to dealerships around the country. Last one happen to be a 30' Classic that I took to Anoka MN. It was optioned up even had the base board heating. It was 166 pounds short of 8,000 pounds dry.
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Old 08-27-2016, 08:52 PM   #44
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How Much Truck Do You Need?

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I swore I would never enter another one of these endless tow vehicle debates, but I cannot stop myself. None of these towing capacity numbers are any good unless your "standards" for performance are the same as the SAE J2807 standard upon which they are based.

Zero-to-60 in 30 seconds is nowhere near my standard for acceptable or safe acceleration. Try entering a freeway on an uphill ramp, or crossing a busy highway, with a 40'-50' long rig that accelerates slower than a 1950's VW bug.

J2807 is fairly well without meaning. Not a realistic standard as it ignores factors of importance. Might sell pickups, but doesn't help in determining a good toe vehicle. Same with "cargo capacity". It's an almost random number.

Look at tire and axle ratings. Go from there.

And I daily enter 70-mph Interstates several times and NEVER accelerate as fast as 0-60 in 30. Can't. Nor do several million other vehicles. Open your eyes.

A truck isn't "needed". There are those who want them for whatever irrational reasons. Some for business use. Some because they carry too much junk.

It's a step down, and not ever a step up.
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Old 08-28-2016, 08:21 AM   #45
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It's all relative - what is acceptable performance

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Zero-to-60 in 30 seconds is nowhere near my standard for acceptable or safe acceleration.
I'd like to say, "My 1954 Chrysler New Yorker coupe powered by 331 ci Hemi V8 required 30 seconds to accelerate from 0 to 60 mph."

Many turbo-diesel powered motor homes require 30 seconds 0-60.

A 2004 Dynaquest Grand Sport weighing 14 tons required 19 seconds 0-60 in a Motor Home magazine test, despite using a 13 liter turbo-diesel producing 450 hp & 1,550 ft.-lbs torque.

My Coach House based on Ford E250 HD running 325 hp 5.8 liter roller cam V8 pulls my trailers to 60 in about 30 seconds. The Excursion with 425 hp V10 is a bit swifter, but not much.

I think most drivers will move over or adjust his or her speed to help a driver burdened with a large RV safely enter the highway from an entry ramp. The main thing for the RV driver to do is be reasonable. Use the engine power even if it sounds scary at higher power settings, be steady so on-coming traffic can understand what one is doing, & go on but have an escape plan if things don't work out.

I've had a lot of undeserved courtesy directed toward me on the road & I appreciate it. Try to pay that forward when I can.

Let's Roll !
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Old 08-28-2016, 08:38 AM   #46
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Better to have more truck than you need than to not have it and need it.
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Old 08-28-2016, 08:49 AM   #47
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slowmover -- Regarding your comment to me to "Open my eyes":

As much as anyone in these discussions on TV's I respect everyone's right to make their own decisions for themselves. My points in this thread have been to not blindly accept the industry standard, but to also apply your own standards.

Just because my standards for my TV may be different from yours does not justify personal insults.
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Old 08-29-2016, 04:26 AM   #48
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Were "safe" really at issue, you'd be a good bit more concerned over braking distances than something as minor as acceleration speed. Loss of control accidents aren't the result of 0-60 times. Not for RVs, commercial trucks or other. It's a result -- nearly every time -- of too fast for conditions. And the RV problem is lousy braking compounded by lousy steering. Trailer brakes, lash-up and the handling/steering/braking qualities of the TV.

The pickup crowd tends to believe that the vehicle type makes a good default choice. It doesn't.

Going solely by what I see on the road (a few thousand miles/week), it's a whole crowd of blind men.
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Old 08-29-2016, 06:13 AM   #49
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[QUOTE=slowmover;1842671

The pickup crowd tends to believe that the vehicle type makes a good default choice. It doesn't.

Going solely by what I see on the road (a few thousand miles/week), it's a whole crowd of blind men.[/QUOTE]

Slowmover, maybe you should be the first one to step up to the plate to sell your dangerous pickup truck........
What you are probably seeing on the highway is folks with poor driving skills. I will happily keep my safe pickup truck which was designed from the ground up to do this towing job as intended.
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Old 08-29-2016, 07:42 AM   #50
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Slowmover, maybe you should be the first one to step up to the plate to sell your dangerous pickup truck........
Agreed 100%. It would be great if folks could lead by example and practice what they preach (not the opposite of it).
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Old 08-29-2016, 08:38 AM   #51
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How much truck do I need?
I need as much truck as is paid for and sitting in my carport with 55,000 miles on it...
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Old 08-29-2016, 09:12 AM   #52
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How Much Truck Do You Need?

The thing about interpreting numbers and applying hypothetical value to them is that they can be argued all day without reaching a consensus.

What works for me, is my 08 4x4 Chevy 1/2 ton in conjunction with my Hensley hitch and my 7,500 pound (loaded to go) trailer combination drives like a slot car. Super stable, even when I put a thousand pounds of toolbox in the bed.

My combination as outfitted is as stable and true as any combination I have ever pulled, and I have pulled a lot of trailers a lot of miles.

The fact is, it pulls and drives so sweet that I don't need anyones blessing or confirmation to feel good about my setup, I just drive and feel good about it...

I will be upgrading my trailer brakes from electric to hyd, but likely drum not disk. Not because the electrics are really bad, but hyd brakes are better. (This is about the biggest chassis improvement that I intend to make)

As for me, I don't need any more truck than I have. I will never feel the need to buy a truck bigger than 1/2 ton for the purpose of towing my Airstream.

Gradiens super tenui glacie.
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Old 08-29-2016, 11:00 AM   #53
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Better to have more truck than you need than to not have it and need it.
Or....

“Its better to have what you don't need when you need it, than not to have it when you don’t.”


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Old 08-29-2016, 11:59 AM   #54
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The thing about interpreting numbers and applying hypothetical value to them is that they can be argued all day without reaching a consensus.
And yet that is exactly what a jury would be asked to do in a civil suit following a vehicle accident involving a death where the investigation discovered that the tow vehicle was loaded beyond the manufacturers displayed maximum payload rating.

Not saying that this applies to your situation; sounds like you have your rig dialed in and within applicable safety limits.

I just know enough about jury trials involving personal liability to be concerned about my own actions and decisions.
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Old 08-29-2016, 12:10 PM   #55
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Were "safe" really at issue, you'd be a good bit more concerned over braking distances than something as minor as acceleration speed. Loss of control accidents aren't the result of 0-60 times. Not for RVs, commercial trucks or other. It's a result -- nearly every time -- of too fast for conditions. And the RV problem is lousy braking compounded by lousy steering. Trailer brakes, lash-up and the handling/steering/braking qualities of the TV.

The pickup crowd tends to believe that the vehicle type makes a good default choice. It doesn't.

Going solely by what I see on the road (a few thousand miles/week), it's a whole crowd of blind men.
Never had a problem towing with any pickup I owned. But my current Grand Cherokee V6 tows just fine, and is also a great luxury car without the AS attached.
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Old 08-29-2016, 12:35 PM   #56
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A person can do everything "right" and still get his ass handed to him in a civil suit.

My goal is not to wreck, no matter who is at fault.

The odds of me getting into a bad accident are about the same no matter the size of my tow vehicle.


Gradiens super tenui glacie.
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