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Old 08-26-2016, 03:44 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by m rafferty View Post
I've had four AS's and five TV's. Nothing compares to a 2500 diesel, everything else is a compromise as far as towing is concerned. 4x4 also important unless you never go near soft ground.
Maybe, if towing up and down the highways is all you use your truck for. We travel six months a year, our half-ton diesel is our daily driver. Anything larger is all about compromises, for OUR use. But then we've only had three TV's and two Airstreams.

I'm still looking for the compromises of our half-ton diesel when towing OUR Airstream. I know that ride, handling, maneuverability, stability, and economy are not among them. I know that 400 ft lbs of torque at low rpm will take us anywhere we want to go as fast as we want to get there, and 2,000 lbs less truck to stop in a hurry are not compromises either.

The significant difference is load-carrying capacity, if you need it and if you are careful about model selection.

The late model half-ton trucks are great tow vehicles for many Airstreamers.
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Old 08-26-2016, 03:48 PM   #30
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I've had one tow vehicle and one Airstream...
If you see me in a campground 5, 10, or 20 years from now I will either have the same rig or have purchased a new rig just like it.
I really don't foresee ever replacing the truck or trailer.
This trailer is a lifetime commitment.
Maybe I will renovate the trailer's interior in about 15 or 20 years from now with new fabric and removing the mouse fur and headliner in favor of more wood and aluminum.
With 55,000 miles on the truck and looking for 400,000-1,000,000 miles...
Besides, I ain't got no money.
"I ain't got no" is the story of my life.
It's cheaper to keep her.
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Old 08-26-2016, 04:08 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
I don't know why you say we are rated to tow 3,000 lbs more trailer. Our truck and trailer ready for travel right now weighs about 13,000 lbs and the GCWR is just under 14,000 lbs.

Like I said I wouldn't mind fudging a few hundred pounds with some trailer brake upgrades and selected routes and driving, but the 3,000 lbs extra trailer weight you suggest are way over the GCWR of our truck.

I am very comfortable towing near the limits of our truck tow rating, based on experience.

Doug -- Let me start by repeating that I am not debating whether or not you have the right TV for you -- that is your call -- and I have even said that it might be OK for me too. I think you, me, or Dodge is confusing GCWR with the manufacturer's rated towing capacity.

The manufacturer's website says the 1500 with the 3.0L EcoDiesel engine is rated for towing 9,210 pounds. Estimating the weight of your 25' FC, I guessed that left about a 3,000 difference and asked the semi-rhetorical question if you thought you would be happy towing the 9,210 pounds that meets the industry's standard.

Repeating my basic point: the tow rating standards published by the industry fall far short of my personal standards. 0-60 in 30 seconds fails my test miserably, and others may wish to think twice about whether or not the industry standard is good enough for them.
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Old 08-26-2016, 05:26 PM   #32
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A 1500 suburban will pull anything Airstream makes safely

A 1500 suburban will pull anything Airstream makes safely. Get a Reese equalizing hitch and you're set.
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Old 08-26-2016, 06:42 PM   #33
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Ram tests there trucks to SAE J2807 standards which is a lot more then a 0-60 test. In fact all manufacturers are switching to that for there tow ratings now. When looking at payload capacity they already account for 300 lbs of passengers and full fluids etc. So they payload capacity is more accurate.
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Old 08-26-2016, 07:38 PM   #34
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Toyota was the first to adopt J2807.
Maybe they all have by now.


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Old 08-26-2016, 10:15 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by field & stream View Post
Doug -- Let me start by repeating that I am not debating whether or not you have the right TV for you -- that is your call -- and I have even said that it might be OK for me too. I think you, me, or Dodge is confusing GCWR with the manufacturer's rated towing capacity.

The manufacturer's website says the 1500 with the 3.0L EcoDiesel engine is rated for towing 9,210 pounds. Estimating the weight of your 25' FC, I guessed that left about a 3,000 difference and asked the semi-rhetorical question if you thought you would be happy towing the 9,210 pounds that meets the industry's standard.

Repeating my basic point: the tow rating standards published by the industry fall far short of my personal standards. 0-60 in 30 seconds fails my test miserably, and others may wish to think twice about whether or not the industry standard is good enough for them.
Your estimate of our Airstream weight is wrong, and your info of our truck weight is wrong. So asking me if I would be happy towing 3,000 lbs more Airstream is meaningless.

Apparently you want to know if we are happy towing near the limit of our weight rating and the answer is yes.
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Old 08-26-2016, 10:29 PM   #36
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Towing

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Maybe, if towing up and down the highways is all you use your truck for. We travel six months a year, our half-ton diesel is our daily driver. Anything larger is all about compromises, for OUR use. But then we've only had three TV's and two Airstreams.

I'm still looking for the compromises of our half-ton diesel when towing OUR Airstream. I know that ride, handling, maneuverability, stability, and economy are not among them. I know that 400 ft lbs of torque at low rpm will take us anywhere we want to go as fast as we want to get there, and 2,000 lbs less truck to stop in a hurry are not compromises either.

The significant difference is load-carrying capacity, if you need it and if you are careful about model selection.

The late model half-ton trucks are great tow vehicles for many Airstreamers.
I just bought a 2016 Nissan Titan XD SL Model with a Cummins diesel. I use to have a Dodge 2500 with a Cummins, a Dodge Dakota, and a Toyota Tacoma. I decided I wanted something to tow a Trailer, I've got the itch to go to Alaska. I saw this Nissan and noticed the Cummins Logo, I love Cummins. It has like 360 HP, 550 Torque, 4 Door, it can tow 11900 pounds, 1290 tongue weight, 19,??? Combined weight trailer & truck. It will tow any trailer I would ever want. With all that said this is the sweetest truck ride I have ever had. I have back problems, I can't put up with the tractor ride the Dodge 2500 gave, the Dakota & the Tacoma could pull a micro-lite trailer but they road fair. I got in the Nissan and I was impressed, one of the best truck rides I have ever experienced. Now all I need is a 28 to 30 foot Airstream.
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Old 08-26-2016, 11:55 PM   #37
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Seems to me when you are thinking about which truck to buy to pull a trailer, towing capacity should be foremost. Not payload capacity. With that said, most full-sized trucks will do fine with a 30 footer.
I originally thought so as well, but in researching 1/2 ton pickups for pulling the 25FB Flying Cloud I am planning on purchasing, I quickly determined that trailer tongue weight (12.5% of max trailer weight of 7300 lbs is ~ 900 lbs) takes a bigger bite out of the payload (GVWR) than the total trailer weight does of the max tow rating (GCWR).

Max towing numbers are practical and informative if you are looking at pulling something with a low center of gravity and long wheel base like a boat, where conventional wisdom calls for less that 10% of trailer weight on the ball.

But if you pull a larger Airstream and are not careful in choosing the right 1/2 ton pickup, you may end up exceeding your max payload well before the max combined weight.
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Old 08-27-2016, 05:41 AM   #38
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I would have to disagree with that statement. I know several pipeline contractors who have jumped back into big gas engines due to the duty cycle of the vehicle they use. Many do a lot of short distances, lots of idling, workers who beat the snot out of the vehicle and they were bitten by the expensive diesel emissions bug. Modern diesels don't perform well under this duty cycle without expensive maintenance to the emission systems.

I believe the original poster stated that he was trying to compare specs on gas engine vehicles.
What expensive maintenance? I have 130,000 miles on a 2012 f250 power stroke and haven't spent 1 dollar on emission maintenance. Am I missing something?
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Old 08-27-2016, 06:07 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Your estimate of our Airstream weight is wrong, and your info of our truck weight is wrong. So asking me if I would be happy towing 3,000 lbs more Airstream is meaningless.

Apparently you want to know if we are happy towing near the limit of our weight rating and the answer is yes.

No, this is not even close to what I wrote, and I am sorry I inadvertantly made you and others feel defensive about their tow vehicles. I sincerely and explicitly tried not to.

My only point has been that the acceptable performance under the industry's J2807 towing standard may not meet the performance standards of individuals. It does not come close to meeting mine.

I am reminded why I told myself never to enter these tow vehicle debates.
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Old 08-27-2016, 06:16 AM   #40
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There is a simple answer to this question. It is the size that you feel safe towing your AS.
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Old 08-27-2016, 08:18 AM   #41
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Andy Thomson of CanAm RV writes a monthly column in a Canadian RV Magazine, RV Lifestyle, on the subject of towing and hitching and is an acknowledged expert in this field.

In the May 2016 edition, he writes a column starting out with "Today we debate the merits of half-ton and three-quarter-ton trucks…".

You can read the article in the magazine's Back Issues section here: http://rvlifemag.dgtlpub.com/?i=3914

Note, this is an on-line magazine, so you will have to figure out the navigation controls and will need to scroll over to page 6 to see the quoted article.


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Old 08-27-2016, 12:44 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by greghoro View Post
Andy Thomson of CanAm RV writes a monthly column in a Canadian RV Magazine, RV Lifestyle, on the subject of towing and hitching and is an acknowledged expert in this field.

In the May 2016 edition, he writes a column starting out with "Today we debate the merits of half-ton and three-quarter-ton trucks…".

You can read the article in the magazine's Back Issues section here: http://rvlifemag.dgtlpub.com/?i=3914

Note, this is an on-line magazine, so you will have to figure out the navigation controls and will need to scroll over to page 6 to see the quoted article.


Greg
Another good article by Andrew Thomson that details why we are absolutely comfortable towing with our modern half-ton tow vehicles even though a payload rating number says we would not be. As well as some other important advantages.
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