How Much Truck Do You Need?

[fwjumper]

Seems to me when you are thinking about which truck to buy to pull a trailer, towing capacity should be foremost. Not payload capacity. With that said, most full-sized trucks will do fine with a 30 footer. The diesel engines may cut payload but they increase towing capacity considerably. Basically, the op was consider the wrong data, from a secondary source. But even bad info sometimes helps. Many other ? Come into play. Towing how often, where, etc.

[cazual6]

OP, not sure where you want to go with this, especially in this forum where it is like debating about religion. The subject is to subjective to narrow down to anything that can be agreed on.

My personal favorite that I can not wrap my head is the towing of a three axel AS with a Chrysler 300. Unless heavy mods to the vehicle itself, I can not see how a stock C300 could ever pull a three axel AS up a hill. Then again, I will get ridiculed by others because of my lack of understanding, which I have already confessed to.

Others here are stuck on their mind set, they are bond to specs and numbers.

Others are field tested, battle proven setups and swears by this manufacture/model/setup that it works.

So, what exactly are you looking for? What kind of validation are you looking for?

[m.hony]

It's not necessarily easier even...
I have a million miles towing with 3/4 ton Chevys under my belt.
I honestly can't tell a nickel's worth of difference except that my 1/2 ton Toyota rides better, has better acceleration and braking, is more responsive, and steers easier with lees bucking and clattering of front end components.
1/2 ton Toyota- better in my opinion and easier- like the trailer isn't even there- have to check rearview to make sure it is still trailing behind ever so politely and mannerly.
The biggest improvement in towing better and easier was switching from a big white box camper to a sleek shiny silver Airstream- so much smoother, less bucking, quieter...

[Starlight Mike]

I've had four AS's and five TV's. Nothing compares to a 2500 diesel, everything else is a compromise as far as towing is concerned. 4x4 also important unless you never go near soft ground.

[m.hony]

I wonder how many naysayers have actually even ridden in a Tundra, much less driven one or towed with one.

[Kent M]

Okay, get your razors and sledghammers out, and I'll put my head opn the chopping block.

First, one of the commenters above came really close to real wisdom when he (she? I didn't take note.....) mentioned standards, and that's really key to at least a major part of this whole subject.

Second, I've seen a number of comments in the past on these forums stating something like "Don't overthink this". There's another batcha wisdom there, as well.

Third, there's NOTHING wrong with being educated in a subject at hand; the key is that the conclusions to be reached require (see note 1 above) that there has to be a realization that viewpoints change, and there are for MANY reasons.

All of this is to say that, while I've had a total of four AS TVs (that's four Towed Vehicles of the Airstream type), my viewpoint stems from my first Other Brand trailer, a '77 20' single axle Coachmen, with all the amenities, but just the bare minimum of everything except beds -- it would sleep 8 in a pinch. Not a big load (probably 4500 pounds tops), but it had all the items for adventure for my wife and kids. I towed it with a Reese Dual-Cam hitch arrangement, which was no big deal. But the salient point was the TV.

It was a new '74 Ford Econoline Window Van, with a 260 cc gasoline engine, and a non-rememberable axle ratio, and the same for the horsepower. I had been blessed with a highly capable father who set me up with an additional 35 gallon fuel tank in additional to the 18 gallon Ford tank (53 gallons gave me a nice driving range, especially at 8 mpg in a 10 mph headwind). No tranny cooler, no extra radiator cooler, standard tires, and a basic hydraulic brake controller.

So what?

Well, the first long trip was from Houston to N.E. New Mexico, over Raton Pass, and across southern Colorado to the Four Corners area, via the "southern route" to Mesa Verde, back through Durango, to Silverton, to Ouray, to Montrose, and on to Gunnison, up to Almont, back to Gunnison, and so forth on to South Fork and the SE corner of Colorado, then back to Raton, and back to Houston.

Many of you will be able to name the +/- 10,000 foot passes on that route. That rig over the next two summers made similar circuits that took us over a number of other fairly well known passes, and others that aren't so well known.

In fact, on the second year's trip, I totally lost my trailer brakes, with one major pass, traffic (light) in both directions, no idiot drivers and about 50 miles of up-and-down to go. By carefully watching for curves, and judicious use of the transmission, there wasn't a single moment of uh-oh. Would I do that again? Almost for sure not. Wouldn't have done it then, without the extenuating circumstances (mostly no place to pull over).



Now, the downsides:

1. TOP speed was (on level ground) about 40-55 mph, depending on the wind direction. The setup was within optimum parameters, and the sway control worked well enough that wind eddies on the downside of grain silos in the Texas panhandle weren't any surprise, even in 50 mph crosswinds. The big rigs would come around at 70-75 mph (even though the Texas top speed was 60 in those days), and there was almost no response from the TV or trailer.

2. Going up one side of Raton Pass (the gentler slope of maybe 4%) was even slower, maybe 30 mph, and I didn't desire to even know the engine RPM. Going up the steep side of Raton was done at may 20-25 MPH, in first gear. There were two helpful facts. First, it was at least 4 lane (before the Interstate, even) so other cars had a route past me. Second. the steep side was at least shorter.

3. I had to carry a 5 gallon plastic jerry can of water for the radiator the first two years. No problem with low on gas issues (see above for gas tank size) or oil consumption. I found out before the 3rd year that the viscous coupling on the radiator fan was faulty; a new coupling let me leave the water can at home.

4. As noted above, gas mileage was low. Even at that, some days it averaged about 4 mpg.

Now for the upsides:

Fantastic scenery, some of the finest friendly people on Earth, and the joy of my family as "next year's trip" got closer each Spring.

Things like this are wonderful for making you focus on what's happening, and what the limits are, yours and the equipment.

These are the things you don't get from a book. Instruction manuals give you a look at facets; experience gives you understanding.

And all these things that have been stated can be used when you make your (hopefully) more considered choice on your next rig, or trip, or weekend.

Asking for input is wise, and much/most of what you've been allowed to read is good/excellent. Just remember that story of the farmer, his son, and the donkey, and their trip to town.

And wisdom is cheap, if you don't mind gettin' it second hand.

Happy traveling.....


Kent
Houston

[cazual6]

Kent M: >bow< to you

[ROBERT CROSS]

I'm not smart enough to 'overthink' anything.

Bob

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by m rafferty

I've had four AS's and five TV's. Nothing compares to a 2500 diesel, everything else is a compromise as far as towing is concerned. 4x4 also important unless you never go near soft ground.

Maybe, if towing up and down the highways is all you use your truck for. We travel six months a year, our half-ton diesel is our daily driver. Anything larger is all about compromises, for OUR use. But then we've only had three TV's and two Airstreams.

I'm still looking for the compromises of our half-ton diesel when towing OUR Airstream. I know that ride, handling, maneuverability, stability, and economy are not among them. I know that 400 ft lbs of torque at low rpm will take us anywhere we want to go as fast as we want to get there, and 2,000 lbs less truck to stop in a hurry are not compromises either.

The significant difference is load-carrying capacity, if you need it and if you are careful about model selection.

The late model half-ton trucks are great tow vehicles for many Airstreamers.

[m.hony]

I've had one tow vehicle and one Airstream...
If you see me in a campground 5, 10, or 20 years from now I will either have the same rig or have purchased a new rig just like it.
I really don't foresee ever replacing the truck or trailer.
This trailer is a lifetime commitment.
Maybe I will renovate the trailer's interior in about 15 or 20 years from now with new fabric and removing the mouse fur and headliner in favor of more wood and aluminum.
With 55,000 miles on the truck and looking for 400,000-1,000,000 miles...
Besides, I ain't got no money.
"I ain't got no" is the story of my life.
It's cheaper to keep her.

[field & stream]

Originally Posted by dkottum

I don't know why you say we are rated to tow 3,000 lbs more trailer. Our truck and trailer ready for travel right now weighs about 13,000 lbs and the GCWR is just under 14,000 lbs.

Like I said I wouldn't mind fudging a few hundred pounds with some trailer brake upgrades and selected routes and driving, but the 3,000 lbs extra trailer weight you suggest are way over the GCWR of our truck.

I am very comfortable towing near the limits of our truck tow rating, based on experience.

Doug -- Let me start by repeating that I am not debating whether or not you have the right TV for you -- that is your call -- and I have even said that it might be OK for me too. I think you, me, or Dodge is confusing GCWR with the manufacturer's rated towing capacity.

The manufacturer's website says the 1500 with the 3.0L EcoDiesel engine is rated for towing 9,210 pounds. Estimating the weight of your 25' FC, I guessed that left about a 3,000 difference and asked the semi-rhetorical question if you thought you would be happy towing the 9,210 pounds that meets the industry's standard.

Repeating my basic point: the tow rating standards published by the industry fall far short of my personal standards. 0-60 in 30 seconds fails my test miserably, and others may wish to think twice about whether or not the industry standard is good enough for them.

[IAMGLG]

A 1500 suburban will pull anything Airstream makes safely. Get a Reese equalizing hitch and you're set.

[SpletKay06]

Ram tests there trucks to SAE J2807 standards which is a lot more then a 0-60 test. In fact all manufacturers are switching to that for there tow ratings now. When looking at payload capacity they already account for 300 lbs of passengers and full fluids etc. So they payload capacity is more accurate.

[m.hony]

Toyota was the first to adopt J2807.
Maybe they all have by now.


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by field & stream

Doug -- Let me start by repeating that I am not debating whether or not you have the right TV for you -- that is your call -- and I have even said that it might be OK for me too. I think you, me, or Dodge is confusing GCWR with the manufacturer's rated towing capacity.

The manufacturer's website says the 1500 with the 3.0L EcoDiesel engine is rated for towing 9,210 pounds. Estimating the weight of your 25' FC, I guessed that left about a 3,000 difference and asked the semi-rhetorical question if you thought you would be happy towing the 9,210 pounds that meets the industry's standard.

Repeating my basic point: the tow rating standards published by the industry fall far short of my personal standards. 0-60 in 30 seconds fails my test miserably, and others may wish to think twice about whether or not the industry standard is good enough for them.

Your estimate of our Airstream weight is wrong, and your info of our truck weight is wrong. So asking me if I would be happy towing 3,000 lbs more Airstream is meaningless.

Apparently you want to know if we are happy towing near the limit of our weight rating and the answer is yes.

[Paul Zmann]

Originally Posted by dkottum

Maybe, if towing up and down the highways is all you use your truck for. We travel six months a year, our half-ton diesel is our daily driver. Anything larger is all about compromises, for OUR use. But then we've only had three TV's and two Airstreams.

I'm still looking for the compromises of our half-ton diesel when towing OUR Airstream. I know that ride, handling, maneuverability, stability, and economy are not among them. I know that 400 ft lbs of torque at low rpm will take us anywhere we want to go as fast as we want to get there, and 2,000 lbs less truck to stop in a hurry are not compromises either.

The significant difference is load-carrying capacity, if you need it and if you are careful about model selection.

The late model half-ton trucks are great tow vehicles for many Airstreamers.

I just bought a 2016 Nissan Titan XD SL Model with a Cummins diesel. I use to have a Dodge 2500 with a Cummins, a Dodge Dakota, and a Toyota Tacoma. I decided I wanted something to tow a Trailer, I've got the itch to go to Alaska. I saw this Nissan and noticed the Cummins Logo, I love Cummins. It has like 360 HP, 550 Torque, 4 Door, it can tow 11900 pounds, 1290 tongue weight, 19,??? Combined weight trailer & truck. It will tow any trailer I would ever want. With all that said this is the sweetest truck ride I have ever had. I have back problems, I can't put up with the tractor ride the Dodge 2500 gave, the Dakota & the Tacoma could pull a micro-lite trailer but they road fair. I got in the Nissan and I was impressed, one of the best truck rides I have ever experienced. Now all I need is a 28 to 30 foot Airstream.

[Mach5]

Originally Posted by fwjumper

Seems to me when you are thinking about which truck to buy to pull a trailer, towing capacity should be foremost. Not payload capacity. With that said, most full-sized trucks will do fine with a 30 footer.

I originally thought so as well, but in researching 1/2 ton pickups for pulling the 25FB Flying Cloud I am planning on purchasing, I quickly determined that trailer tongue weight (12.5% of max trailer weight of 7300 lbs is ~ 900 lbs) takes a bigger bite out of the payload (GVWR) than the total trailer weight does of the max tow rating (GCWR).

Max towing numbers are practical and informative if you are looking at pulling something with a low center of gravity and long wheel base like a boat, where conventional wisdom calls for less that 10% of trailer weight on the ball.

But if you pull a larger Airstream and are not careful in choosing the right 1/2 ton pickup, you may end up exceeding your max payload well before the max combined weight.

[Naper]

Originally Posted by crispyboy

I would have to disagree with that statement. I know several pipeline contractors who have jumped back into big gas engines due to the duty cycle of the vehicle they use. Many do a lot of short distances, lots of idling, workers who beat the snot out of the vehicle and they were bitten by the expensive diesel emissions bug. Modern diesels don't perform well under this duty cycle without expensive maintenance to the emission systems.

I believe the original poster stated that he was trying to compare specs on gas engine vehicles.

What expensive maintenance? I have 130,000 miles on a 2012 f250 power stroke and haven't spent 1 dollar on emission maintenance. Am I missing something?

[field & stream]

Originally Posted by dkottum

Your estimate of our Airstream weight is wrong, and your info of our truck weight is wrong. So asking me if I would be happy towing 3,000 lbs more Airstream is meaningless.

Apparently you want to know if we are happy towing near the limit of our weight rating and the answer is yes.

No, this is not even close to what I wrote, and I am sorry I inadvertantly made you and others feel defensive about their tow vehicles. I sincerely and explicitly tried not to.

My only point has been that the acceptable performance under the industry's J2807 towing standard may not meet the performance standards of individuals. It does not come close to meeting mine.

I am reminded why I told myself never to enter these tow vehicle debates.

[urnmor]

There is a simple answer to this question. It is the size that you feel safe towing your AS.