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Old 05-30-2013, 10:36 PM   #43
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In my short time here on the forum, the most often seen name for doing setups is Andy Thompson. I would say he has amassed a wealth of towing data in the years he, his brother and his father have been in the trailer related business. They would tend to remember images from the 50s when the family sedan did double duty as the tow vehicle.

In those days, we had the American muscle cars with big V8 engines and "steel" cars with a lot of weight. The smaller cars of today are designed to be light weight and very fuel efficient. Many foreign brands were never designed to tow.

Since Europe banned electric brakes and weight distribution hitches to keep American trailers and towing technology from invading the Continent years ago, those two common terms here are not in the vocabulary there. Thus we hear the words "not recommended" for towing or weight distribution hitches on some brands. That takes the legal burden off the manufacturer as well as saving considerable R&D funds to test tow every brand and model of trailer out there to be sure a specific vehicle can tow "any" trailer.

When I crossed the scales and found my front axle overloaded and my GVW exceeded with a partially loaded trailer and still did not have personal stuff in the car, I knew it was not the vehicle for this mission. Thus the need for a stouter TV. Now with plans to move to a 20% heavier trailer, the new TV is properly sized for the job.

I hope the OP contacts Andy Thompson because Andy will tell him whether his vehicle can be properly and legally setup for that load. He may find that the new palm sized camera he just bought will overload the vehicle when towing!
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:42 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by switz View Post
In my short time here on the forum, the most often seen name for doing setups is Andy Thompson. I would say he has amassed a wealth of towing data in the years he, his brother and his father have been in the trailer related business. They would tend to remember images from the 50s when the family sedan did double duty as the tow vehicle.

In those days, we had the American muscle cars with big V8 engines and "steel" cars with a lot of weight. The smaller cars of today are designed to be light weight and very fuel efficient. Many foreign brands were never designed to tow.

Since Europe banned electric brakes and weight distribution hitches to keep American trailers and towing technology from invading the Continent years ago, those two common terms here are not in the vocabulary there. Thus we hear the words "not recommended" for towing or weight distribution hitches on some brands. That takes the legal burden off the manufacturer as well as saving considerable R&D funds to test tow every brand and model of trailer out there to be sure a specific vehicle can tow "any" trailer.

When I crossed the scales and found my front axle overloaded and my GVW exceeded with a partially loaded trailer and still did not have personal stuff in the car, I knew it was not the vehicle for this mission. Thus the need for a stouter TV. Now with plans to move to a 20% heavier trailer, the new TV is properly sized for the job.

I hope the OP contacts Andy Thompson because Andy will tell him whether his vehicle can be properly and legally setup for that load. He may find that the new palm sized camera he just bought will overload the vehicle when towing!
A '59 Ford Country Squire V8 wagon weighed about 3900 lb. A 2013 Odyssey Touring weighs over 4500 lb. But that's OK, FUD beats facts right?

EDIT: Oh, and the Country Squire had drum brakes all around compared to the Odyssey's 4-wheel discs, and the best '59 wagons had crap handling compared to modern cars. The topic is an Odyssey as a possible tow vehicle for a '59 FC, not a Yaris as a tow vehicle for your heavy 2013 25-footer.
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:09 PM   #45
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Who can set my 2012 Oddysey up to tow?
CanAm airstream dealer in Canada.
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:15 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by DKB_SATX View Post
A '59 Ford Country Squire V8 wagon weighed about 3900 lb. A 2013 Odyssey Touring weighs over 4500 lb. But that's OK, FUD beats facts right?

EDIT: Oh, and the Country Squire had drum brakes all around compared to the Odyssey's 4-wheel discs, and the best '59 wagons had crap handling compared to modern cars. The topic is an Odyssey as a possible tow vehicle for a '59 FC, not a Yaris as a tow vehicle for your heavy 2013 25-footer.
I had to look up FUD - it all becomes clear now. I could write volumes on FUD and how it influences the buying public, but I won't do it here as I'm likely to turfed off the Forum for hijacking (yet another) thread.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:49 AM   #47
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Sigh. This is why I've set my preferences to ignore the tow vehicle thread. (Not sure why I ventured in - curious, I guess.)

I had CanAm set up my 2005 Honda Odyssey for towing my previous trailer, an single-axle Argosy Minuet that probably weighed about 3,200 pounds loaded (not much more than a 59 FC!) It handled very, very well and never was a problem. I didn't use a "fancy" hitch either - just a Eaz-Lift with friction sway control. The primary part of the modification was welding in a hitch reinforcement. When I bought a 2010 Odyssey, I had a local welder buddy swap in the hitch. Between the Odysseys and towing both a T@B and the Argosy, I towed over 15,000 miles with a minivan. Never an issue.

When I upgraded trailers, I originally planned to keep the van. I have no doubt it could have been set up to do it safely - Honda's rating be damned. But I was able to get my Durango for a great price, and the added torque of its Hemi, the all-wheel-drive, and its good handling all persuaded me to upgrade.

And honestly - even though I'm an engineer in the auto industry who has researched this a lot, I didn't have the spine/patience to listen to/argue with know-it-alls tell me I couldn't tow a trailer with the van. (I applaud MrUKToad for that.) I even have some truck folks tell me I can't tow my trailer with the 7,200-lb rated Durango "station wagon"...

The Durango is great. Nice and strong and quiet. But I still miss the van sometimes, which was easier to load kayaks on the roof/cargo in the back - and which was dialed in to a T for fabulous handling.

One more note - payload on my Odyssey was about 1,500 pounds, more than quite a few SUVs and 1/2-ton trucks.

Go to CanAm. I doubt you'll get much more out of this thread beyond a replay of an argument that has been rehashed time and time again.

Tom
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Old 05-31-2013, 08:14 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mutcth View Post
Sigh. This is why I've set my preferences to ignore the tow vehicle thread. (Not sure why I ventured in - curious, I guess.)

I had CanAm set up my 2005 Honda Odyssey for towing my previous trailer, an single-axle Argosy Minuet that probably weighed about 3,200 pounds loaded (not much more than a 59 FC!) It handled very, very well and never was a problem. I didn't use a "fancy" hitch either - just a Eaz-Lift with friction sway control. The primary part of the modification was welding in a hitch reinforcement. When I bought a 2010 Odyssey, I had a local welder buddy swap in the hitch. Between the Odysseys and towing both a T@B and the Argosy, I towed over 15,000 miles with a minivan. Never an issue.

When I upgraded trailers, I originally planned to keep the van. I have no doubt it could have been set up to do it safely - Honda's rating be damned. But I was able to get my Durango for a great price, and the added torque of its Hemi, the all-wheel-drive, and its good handling all persuaded me to upgrade.

And honestly - even though I'm an engineer in the auto industry who has researched this a lot, I didn't have the spine/patience to listen to/argue with know-it-alls tell me I couldn't tow a trailer with the van. (I applaud MrUKToad for that.) I even have some truck folks tell me I can't tow my trailer with the 7,200-lb rated Durango "station wagon"...

The Durango is great. Nice and strong and quiet. But I still miss the van sometimes, which was easier to load kayaks on the roof/cargo in the back - and which was dialed in to a T for fabulous handling.

One more note - payload on my Odyssey was about 1,500 pounds, more than quite a few SUVs and 1/2-ton trucks.

Go to CanAm. I doubt you'll get much more out of this thread beyond a replay of an argument that has been rehashed time and time again.

Tom
Thanks, Tom.
To all the adversaries, thanks for all the info. It's always good to hear both sides, but no need to share any more info on this particular thread, or I'll come hijack your threads

Rowdy
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:23 PM   #49
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Engineering the tow vehicle

>CanAm airstream dealer in Canada.

This is the perennial answer, and I'm open to it. But why is Andy T in Ontario the only guy recommended? If this is such a sensible, successful alternative (and my mind is open to believing it is), why aren't there more mechanics across the US providing this service, or if there are, why aren't they mentioned?

I am sincere in my questions.
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:44 PM   #50
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>CanAm airstream dealer in Canada.

This is the perennial answer, and I'm open to it. But why is Andy T in Ontario the only guy recommended? If this is such a sensible, successful alternative (and my mind is open to believing it is), why aren't there more mechanics across the US providing this service, or if there are, why aren't they mentioned?

I am sincere in my questions.
Legal issues is the simple answer.
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:27 PM   #51
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Legal issues is the simple answer.
Where's your proof of this oft used canard?
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:31 PM   #52
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Where's your proof of this oft used canard?
Personal interviews with state hwy police and local dealers on modified vehicles with warranties. But your free to do what you feel is right for you. But the uniformed should be told the truth so they can decide for themselves. Enjoy and safe travels.
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:51 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by perri View Post
>CanAm airstream dealer in Canada.

This is the perennial answer, and I'm open to it. But why is Andy T in Ontario the only guy recommended? If this is such a sensible, successful alternative (and my mind is open to believing it is), why aren't there more mechanics across the US providing this service, or if there are, why aren't they mentioned?

I am sincere in my questions.
I'd guess that it's a fairly small market and there's not too much money to be made from it, hence the single source. It's nothing to do with legality, that's for sure, but more to do with the TV buying public's willingness to do something other than just throw the biggest truck they can afford at the problem. The vast majority of TT users do not look beyond what the auto industry tells them in terms of tow ratings so they won't even begin to explore things like the service that Can Am offers. I'd guess that Can Am makes most of its profit from selling trailers and that towing, a personal specialism of Andy and Kirk Thompson, is very much secondary.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:00 PM   #54
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Personal interviews with state hwy police and local dealers on modified vehicles with warranties.
And how many vehicle/trailer combinations have these people, who supplied your anecdotal information, set up and tested? For that matter, how many have you? Your posts in these threads imply that you have a greater knowledge/experience that the good folks at CanAm. You go ahead and tow with what makes you comfortable, but your persistent need to call those with different opinions 'uninformed' is getting old. Show us real, documented and peer reviewed proof that liability is an issue, or put that canard to rest.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:12 PM   #55
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And how many vehicle/trailer combinations have these people, who supplied your anecdotal information, set up and tested? For that matter, how many have you? Your posts in these threads imply that you have a greater knowledge/experience that the good folks at CanAm. You go ahead and tow with what makes you comfortable, but your persistent need to call those with different opinions 'uninformed' is getting old. Show us real, documented and peer reviewed proof that liability is an issue, or put that canard to rest.
Maybe rules of the road differ from country to country. I'm sure you know best.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:33 PM   #56
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Maybe rules of the road differ from country to country. I'm sure you know best.
Hardly. But I'll side with a company that has been setting up Airstream/TV combinations for 40 years over someone who comes here and makes statements of legality and safety without sufficiently supporting his statements. All I see is fear mongering. Again, show us the proof to back up your claims. That's all I ask.
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