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Old 06-21-2008, 09:10 PM   #1
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Red face Help! Will a 2000 Honda Odyssey tow a '75 Sovereign?

I'm looking into purchasing a '75 Sovereign. Have a 2000 Honda Odessey. I've tried to figure it it out and I'm confused. The weights are:

Honda: GVWR-5656 lbs.
GAWR: 2840 lbs.
Sovereign: 5065 lbs.
-hitch wt. 650 lbs.
-ball ht. 19.5 inches
If someone could tell me it can be done, I'll go for it!
Thanks for the help.
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Old 06-21-2008, 10:40 PM   #2
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First, welcome to the forums.

Here is the bad new. The towing rating for that Odyssey was only 3500 pounds. The towing specifications are listed here:
2000 Honda Odyssey Engines and Performance - MSN Autos
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Old 06-22-2008, 06:55 AM   #3
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BTW, that weight for the Sovereign is a bit low. Our '74 Sovereign weighs closer to 7,000 fully loaded.
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Old 06-22-2008, 07:58 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aircreek View Post
I'm looking into purchasing a '75 Sovereign. Have a 2000 Honda Odessey. I've tried to figure it it out and I'm confused. The weights are:

Honda: GVWR-5656 lbs.
GAWR: 2840 lbs.
Sovereign: 5065 lbs.
-hitch wt. 650 lbs.
-ball ht. 19.5 inches
If someone could tell me it can be done, I'll go for it!
Thanks for the help.
I'd say you are looking at the dry weight of a '75 Sovereign which means no propane, no fresh water, no liquids in either tank and no cargo. Your Odessey will already be taxed with too heavy a weight even before you pack up for a trip.
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Old 06-22-2008, 02:33 PM   #5
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The Ody tow rating serves purposes other than helping folks determine what it will tow. OdyClub Forums has a number of discussions about towing with the Ody. Can Am RV in Ontario has helped a number of folks configure rigs that might not otherwise seem suitable to make comfortable (and safe) combinations.

The Ody has a 250 HP engine so it has the power. For the 2000's the weak spot may be the transmission but that can be handled with proper cooling.

i.e. towing with the Ody may make the weight police blanch but it can be done if the appropriate considerations are taken.
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Old 06-22-2008, 02:45 PM   #6
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That combination is not only a disaster waiting to happen for the driver and passengers, but for everyone else on the road. Glad you're far away if you do decide to try it - I'd hate to meet it on the road! Darol
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Old 06-22-2008, 03:14 PM   #7
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I don't know anything about a '75 Sovereign, but I'd consider using an Ody for my 25SS except I have heard early models had transmission issues. Can-Am RV > Home has a lot of experience with Ody's -- you may wish to contact them for a bit of advice.
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Old 06-22-2008, 03:26 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by aircreek View Post
... I've tried to figure it it out and I'm confused...
hi 'creek and welcome to the forums...

GOOD FOR YOU! trying to figure out the ratings and capacity.

this isn't about us 'policing' your endeavor, in the least.

the available numbers for curb weight are ~4200-4400 lbs for the minivan...

so the od' has a generous payload, relative to it's size...

that's not surprising BECAUSE it is a people hauler...

BUT the gcwr which is the KEY figure imo is only ~8,200-8,400 lbs...

and THAT IS WITH the tranny cooler package.

so the suggested towing capacity of 3,500 lbs is PRETTY CLOSE to a real estimate.

IF u managed to configure a receiver that would carry the tongue load...

AND used a hitch that COULD redistribute adequate load to the FRONT steering/drive axle for safe handling...

the combo would SITLL be OVER the axle rating, tire rating, towing capacity AND gcwr...

and also over the payload and gvwr..

in other words 6 parameters would be OVER specs with a EMPTY trailer...

but that 250 hp would sure get the mess rolling!

i think mswartz may have towed a bambi with that van, so u might pm him...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/memb...artz-4480.html

while VERY willing to work outside the box,

his insight on this issue would be first hand and is usually very pragmatic....

PLUS he lives on the same planet as you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mswartz View Post
....

I have towed my 2001 19ft Bambi with a 2000 Odyssey, putting over 30,000 miles with the combo over five years.

See the old picture on mswartz.com , which I have not yet updated.

Last year I purchased a Honda Ridgeline to replace the Odyssey for towing.

Based on this extensive experience,

I would urge you not to tow the Bambi with the Odyssey for many of the reasons listed on this thread.

Marshall
here is a thread for ya with issues from us specs-freaked folks who try to rely on SOME of the numbers...

and another happy od' owner towing a TINY 'stream...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f368...cle-27011.html

if you are thinking about moving to another planet... SURE go for it!!!

cheers
2air'
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Old 06-22-2008, 03:38 PM   #9
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That combination is not only a disaster waiting to happen
like I said ... there's the FUD mongering 'weight police' and then there's the 'been there, done that' bunch.

I really wonder what the RV industry would have been like 50 or more years ago if the "disaster waiting to happen" ethos was as prevalent then.

As I noted, with a 250 hp engine and a fairly long wheelbase, the Ody has several attributes that can make it an excellent tow vehicle given appropriate preparation and considerations.
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Old 06-22-2008, 03:54 PM   #10
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I have never towed an Airstream with a 250HP Honda Oddy so I do not know how it would perform or handle so it's not fair to comment on that apsect.

However I have towed our's with the smaller 150HP Nissan Mini Van for many years. It worked very well with "0" issues.

Many folks just can't get passed the idea of a TT like an Airstream being such a superior tow.

If someone jumped on the forum and said they had a perfect 1955 Mercury sedan with a 188HP engine and wanted to tow a 30' Airstream 99% of the members would be crying the blues about the idea.
Comments like "please don't drive in my State" or "I don't want to share the road with you!" will be posted immediately.

If you look at this link Road test 55 Merc and 30' Airstream
you will see from 1955 how well a 55 Mercury was at handling a 30' Airstream. Acceleration, braking, high speed of 91MPH etc are very respectable numbers.

Now in the interest of science lets compare the Oddy to the old Merc.


The uni-body used in the Oddy is stiffer with far less flex.
The brakes are so much better.
The engine is much more refined and has much more power.
The Oddy with stability control is far superior for handling.
And so many other advantages including modern technological advancements with hitch platforms, hitches, brake controllers etc.

Now if one was to do an on road towing review how would they perform? Based on the vehicles advanced technical merits many would suggest the Oddy would easily out perform the old Merc in every way????
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Old 06-22-2008, 04:27 PM   #11
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I compared it to towing a 31' '77 Excella 500 empty, just a few hundred pounds heavier- as well as loaded, with a '92 Z71 1500 4X4. I could get up to speed and stop OK but it was not a comfortable feeling compared to my '01 2500hd extended cab.

It will be interesting once he loads the trailer up and fills the seats of that Odessey. Good luck in his towing experience.
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Old 06-22-2008, 11:25 PM   #12
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You know, I'd REALLY like to see some performance numbers of this hitched up and moving. Part of me says... NOWAY! The other part of me thinks it might just work.

I say call CanAm, contact some ACTUAL owners, and make a decision from there.

IF you do it, can you let us know how it works?
Best!
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Old 06-23-2008, 05:35 AM   #13
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There is no doubt that it couldn't be hitched up and be rolling down the highway but I'm wondering about the ability to have a controlled stop should you be placed in an emergency maneuver such as someone pulling out in front of you.
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Old 06-23-2008, 05:48 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by davidz71
There is no doubt that it couldn't be hitched up and be rolling down the highway but I'm wondering about the ability to have a controlled stop should you be placed in an emergency maneuver such as someone pulling out in front of you.
I am not sure about other states, but ours requires the tow vehicle to be able to safely stop the trailer without the trailer brakes. I can envision a Geo Metro pulling out in front of the Oddysey/Sovereign, and the Sovereign's brakes stop working. Not a good scenario.
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Old 06-23-2008, 05:52 AM   #15
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I'm certainly no expert when it comes to towing, and there are those on the Forum with much more experience. It is very confusing trying to even understand what some of these weight, tow capacity posts are trying to tell you. I pull a 1976, 31ft Sovereign with a 5.4L Triton V8 Ford and you can hardly tell it's back there. I try to pull the 24ft Argosy with the same set up and it seems like too much truck, too stiff a suspension for the Argosy. The 4.7L Tundra, is a much smoother pull for the Argosy and it does not struggle even with the Argosy "over fully" loaded. This week-end I saw a 15ft, SOB on its side on the highway, being pulled by a F-250. Don't know what happened; however, it was laid across the road and the Ford was upright. I'm thinking it was not a WD hitch with the sway bar and the wind just caught the trailer. Maybe too much truck and an over-confident driver? Good for you trying to get it right the first time. Take your time and take it slow. Just a note, pulled the 24ft Argosy home 800+ miles from El Paso, not knowing that it had no working brakes. Not one problem with the old F-150, with over 200K miles on it.
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Old 06-23-2008, 05:54 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidz71 View Post
There is no doubt that it couldn't be hitched up and be rolling down the highway but I'm wondering about the ability to have a controlled stop should you be placed in an emergency maneuver such as someone pulling out in front of you.
Good question. Many of us subscribe to an RV mag where so much towing information is talked about in detail. In this issue track testing revealed the unique towing characteristics of different types of vehicles and TT's.

RV Lifestyle - Hitch Hints
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Old 06-23-2008, 08:10 AM   #17
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the ability to have a controlled stop should you be placed in an emergency maneuver
This is why the law requires trailers to have brakes! Nearly any vehicle will have enough braking power to stop a trailer (what it does to the brakes is the issue!) but the fact is that stopping the trailer by tow vehicle alone is a recipe for disaster (i.e. jackknife). See the advice Ricky gets in the Long Long Trailer on this.

Also, you should never, ever engage in 'emergency maneuvers' with a trailer rig. The folks that think their RV will handle like a sports car are always disappointed, even with Airstreams. Trying to avoid something in the road is probably one of the major causes of loss of control crashes with RV's.

But it is interesting, isn't it, how this discussion has evolved? Power, then weight, then loading to silly extremes, now stopping power? Why are people looking so hard to find an excuse, a rationale, for why not? What is the real emotional investment?

As for track testing - that is a forte of Can Am RV and look what this forum did to Andy of that dealership on the topic.

I'd agree that a Sovereign is probably a bit big for an Ody. But I wouldn't dismiss it as not safe or totally impossible as some here seem to. The Ody is not as small a vehicle as some here seem to imply.
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:24 PM   #18
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All I can say is that if I hadn't steered slightly to the right as I braked then I would have torn the rear end out of a stupid idiot driving an Excursion who pulled out in front of me from a side street. He was moving out slowly so as to make my truck and a truck coming from the other direction have to both hit our brakes. While justice would have been for both of us to hit him at the same time and send him to the hospital, I didn't want to have to get my truck fixed. I sell one in a heartbeat if it is ever involved in a wreck.
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:19 PM   #19
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All I can say is that if I hadn't steered slightly to the right
ya' know, it gets really interesting the degree to which folks go to try to refute some things (or individuals). Knee jerk responses are just as dangerous in these discussions as they are on the road IMHO.

Do you really advocate sudden maneuvers with an RV as a general means to avoid disaster? Really?

Do you really think it a good idea to tell a newbie that he should swing the steering wheel to avoid things with his RV? Really?

What would happen if your "slightly" was 'slightly too much' ?? Perhaps you have the experience to know how much steering at what speed you can get away with but do you think it good advice to suggest others work that line as a general thing? Really?

And just what is an "emergency maneuver" anyway? Is it a slight change in steering or is it an effort to make a sudden large change in direction?

What you can get away with or what you may have survived is one thing. Those incidents may even provide material for examples and be useful if they can provide insight into general rules or concepts. Otherwise, it pays to consider just what you might be suggesting as driving advice and to whom you suggest it.
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:29 PM   #20
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I would like to add to the don't do it side of the arguement ,primarily because you WILL have situations that will test your combo ,your brakes ,your response time
and your patience .like climbing a steep grade with all that weight behind you .firtst of all ,the manafacturer says 3500 pounds ,thats it .anyone deciding how rediculouse that is and goes right ahead and does what some here are advicating to do is doing it
at your own risk and the risk of others .Nothing to do with emotions ,just have some common sense .veteren users on this forum have their own ideas ,mine is safety first
no matter what ,and you better dang well hope that honda can stop the trailer
if the brakes fail (no one chime in either as to how the brakes don't fail because they do) a tire blowout or two on the side of the road and the brake wires are ripped out
the brake controller may not function without continuity thru out the brake magnets.
I work on trailers all the time and have recently repaired torn wires ,the guys brakes didn't work after the blowout .you guys that keep climing its worth trying and why not
and so on re not helping in this persons decision . the brakes and wheel bearings and tires on the van are not designed for the kind of loading on them ,let alone the transmission ,is it rated for 7000 pounds of towing ? This same arguement over and over again so someone with a small undersized tow vehical feels like its ok to tow somthing a full size vehical should be towing .My advice to the honda owner ,LISTEN to the folks here that tow this size trailer with full size vehicals like davidsz71 ,thay know cause they have done it and I have too ,had to swerve around someone who cut out in the traffic lane ,i have full size rig pulling a 24ft tradewind ,no problem ,but
it was stressful ,yet knew i was able to control the trailer . I don't care what can-am does and respectfully ,they do go to extreme measures to make under sized and underpowered tow vehicals go down the road ,but that does not make it the right way to do it .

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