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Old 06-27-2008, 05:39 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
REPOST!!!!

and sorry terry,

<snip>as an off topic STICKY...

cheers
2air'
My wife thinks your avatar is super cute, and she wants to know if it's a rabbit or a guinea pig.

Oh, and what does "hijack" mean? It is an exterior finish term?
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Old 06-27-2008, 05:47 PM   #58
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... she wants to know if it's a rabbit or a guinea pig.
YES it is !

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Oh, and what does "hijack" mean? It is an exterior finish term?...
actually in finnish hi jack is...

hi nostaa väkivivulla

i think that applies to both interior and exterior applications....

cheers
2air'
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Old 06-27-2008, 06:00 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by AlbertF View Post
The biggest potential issue with the Odyssey is the transnmission. ... I'm starting to believe that as long as the fluid temperature is kept within a normal range and the driver is smooth and controlled with the accelerator, towing in and of itself doesn't harm transmissions,
This is perhaps true of any rig that is pushing things a bit, I think. The driver accommodations for his rig can go a long way towards obtaining a satisfactory experience.
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Old 06-27-2008, 06:29 PM   #60
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My wife thinks your avatar is super cute, and she wants to know if it's a rabbit or a guinea pig.
...or an oryx?

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Old 06-27-2008, 10:02 PM   #61
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ok, so NOW everyone knows...

what is under the hat!

that'd be carrots bob, organic CARROTS!

not HORNS or pick axes...

just a little r'chow 4 later.

another way 2 think about it is...

the uncanny ability to balance many things topside,

before diving DOWN the rabbit hole!

r.i.p. mr. bunny....

cheers
2air'
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Old 06-27-2008, 10:40 PM   #62
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So, Mr. Bunny, he is called "2HareisHuman?

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Old 06-28-2008, 07:00 AM   #63
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Now we're back on track..

Anyone see poster #1

Sure hope all the questions have been answered

Keep up the good work gang
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Old 06-28-2008, 09:20 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Now we're back on track..

Anyone see poster #1

Sure hope all the questions have been answered

Keep up the good work gang
With the new software, I'm not sure if this is classified info, but the thread starter hasn't been back since June 22...
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Old 06-28-2008, 10:04 AM   #65
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Probably got scared away. It's a fascinating topic and it's a shame that it always has to deteriorate into something where peoples feelings get hurt. I appreciate that a few kept cool heads and tried to present the facts as the know them from their own experience. Hopefully the OP will find some useful information that will help to answer his questions.
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Old 06-28-2008, 10:05 AM   #66
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With the new software, I'm not sure if this is classified info, but the thread starter hasn't been back since June 22...
I can look at any members profile and see when they were last active. That's a common feature to many forums.
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Old 06-28-2008, 11:20 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by aircreek View Post
I'm looking into purchasing a '75 Sovereign. Have a 2000 Honda Odessey. I've tried to figure it it out and I'm confused. The weights are:

Honda: GVWR-5656 lbs.
GAWR: 2840 lbs.
Sovereign: 5065 lbs.
-hitch wt. 650 lbs.
-ball ht. 19.5 inches
If someone could tell me it can be done, I'll go for it!
Thanks for the help.
================================================== ===

You have seen much advice on here, some qualified, some not so, some with experience, some with little, The key here is read all that has been said take names & notes and those that you feel has contributed to answering your question both with standard opinion and those that push the envelope, get back in contact with them either through email or PM and ask more questions.
Once you have gathered enough information then do a little investigation of your own and then you can form your own opinion and decision from there. In your investigation talk to Insurance companies, State Motor vehicle enforcement, Vehicle manufacturer, trailer manufacturer, you might even query some attorneys into any cases they have had involving vehicle crashes.
One thing that should always be your #1 thought is SAFETY, of you, your familiy & passengers, and those around you.
I do not want to start an arguement on this site, but if you wish to email me I would be glad to try and assist you in your endeavers.
My Experience; Been in the camping scene since I was 8, I am now fifty, Experience with many different types of towing vehicles small and large, 22 Years Truck driver/Owner operator with 2 million miles experience and have hauled everything except for moble homes using vehicles from pickups to 5 axle semis and 10 axle trailers. This is one issue that I have alot of experience in.
I currently have a 1975 Soverien pulling it with a GMC 1/2 ton and would not pull this trailer with anything smaller because of the push issue that was breifly mentioned in here.

Mark "Sarge" Hutchens
SargeAF@Hotmail.com
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Old 06-28-2008, 12:49 PM   #68
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In your investigation talk to Insurance companies, State Motor vehicle enforcement, Vehicle manufacturer, trailer manufacturer, you might even query some attorneys into any cases they have had involving vehicle crashes.
Have you ever tried doing this?

The opinions you get will be more varied and more poorly founded than those you find here in my experience. That is why any opinion needs to be backed up by appropriate measure or citation, even when from supposedly authoritative sources. Most of these 'authoritative sources" are very very far from direct contact with the issue at hand.

I also suggest we take dire warnings about safety off the table and place that issue in the basic assumption category. No one seeks to be unsafe. Safety is a primary reason for asking the question of the thread in the first place. The issue is not "safe" versus "unsafe" but rather what is the risk, how do we measure it, how do we know the measure, and how do we know when we are talking comfort rather than safety.

I know that you can tow a large trailer safely with an Ody because there are people doing it as we see here. I also know, from direct experience, what accommodations need to be made to do it. IMHO we need to help people looking at decisions understand what is needed to implement various options and not try to frighten them with prognostications or our own projections or vague references. We need to help uncover and understand the actual cost to benefit measures and implications.
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Old 06-29-2008, 06:04 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Leipper View Post
Have you ever tried doing this?

The opinions you get will be more varied and more poorly founded than those you find here in my experience. That is why any opinion needs to be backed up by appropriate measure or citation, even when from supposedly authoritative sources. Most of these 'authoritative sources" are very very far from direct contact with the issue at hand.

I also suggest we take dire warnings about safety off the table and place that issue in the basic assumption category. No one seeks to be unsafe. Safety is a primary reason for asking the question of the thread in the first place. The issue is not "safe" versus "unsafe" but rather what is the risk, how do we measure it, how do we know the measure, and how do we know when we are talking comfort rather than safety.

I know that you can tow a large trailer safely with an Ody because there are people doing it as we see here. I also know, from direct experience, what accommodations need to be made to do it. IMHO we need to help people looking at decisions understand what is needed to implement various options and not try to frighten them with prognostications or our own projections or vague references. We need to help uncover and understand the actual cost to benefit measures and implications.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

"Have you ever tried doing this?" Yes I have, in the training I have had as well as the classes I have taught this information is a must, Truck drivers are tested on this subject and held accountable as well as face continual legal problems because of this issue, in addition as a part time PI I have used my experience for many attorneys both defense and prosicute and testified as to such.
As far as your comment that safety is not issue in a tow vehicle except for a reason to confuse or terrify someone, only shows your lack of experience and concern for family, and the public. Just because one or two does it does not make it right or safe, what you say could also be applied to someone jumping off a bridge or going over Niagra Falls, because one or two did it and did not have a problem no one will, well I hate to inform you but there are several who have tried and had deathly consiquences, same here with towing with a underrated vehicle, just because that person has not had a problem so far does not mean its ok, its not, it is just a matter of time before something that has been said in this post will happen and that person(s) will see their mistake and change, but there is also that possibility they may never have a problem because they dont travel that far or often, but it only takes one time. One last thing and I testified to this in a court case; if you are towing with a vehicle not rated for what you are towing, you are and will automatically be held accountable if you are involved in an accident. The civil suit against this person was won on the fact that this person was towing with a vehicle that was not made to tow what he was towing. This person is now paying dearly for his mistake.
I could sit here and debate this subject, quote actual findings, proof, ETC, for the rest of my life and it is not going to teach you anything nor are you going to listen anyways, so this will be a closed subject as far as you are concerned, One day you and any person who follows your beliefs will learn a lesson and I just hope that I am not there when y'all do.
END OF SUBJECT!!!
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Old 06-29-2008, 09:43 AM   #70
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As far as your comment that safety is not issue in a tow vehicle except for a reason to confuse or terrify someone, only shows your lack of experience and concern for family, and the public.
I am very sorry you feel this way and suggest you step back, examine your feelings, and look at where they lead you. IMHO, this kind of personal assault disqualifies the argument. Using 3rd and 4th party anecdotes and bringing in commercial requirements only add to this opinion. It should also be noted that the immediate issue was the argument technique called 'an appeal to authority' which is not considered a good means to support any viewpoint.

Let us consider what we are talking about: the supposition that traveling while exceeding the GCWR is a cause of traffic crashes resulting in injury which then creates liability.

A first consideration is crash statistics. I referred to one source for these earlier in this discussion. What can be learned from them is that the odds of 'exceeding the GCWR' as a causative factor in traffic crashes is about nil. We can support these data with anecdotal personal record as cited in this discussion. The negligible odds can also be inferred by the absence of any reputable mechanism that relates 'exceeding the GCWR' to crashes and also the nebulous definition or method for determining GCWR.

Now we can take a look at the "automatically held accountable" assertion for this extremely rare event. I have seen that idea beat to a pulp in other discussions and the only citations of any credit that surfaced were related to commercial activity and based on legalities. These discussions also attempted to create the idea that driving while 'exceeding the GCWR' was illegal for RV's but that did not get very far either (except for the creativity part).

If one does want to examine this issue, take a look at DUI for comparison and contrast. That is illegal and is well established as a clear causitive factor in traffic crashes causing severe injury to others. What does the insurance company do if you are blamed for a crash while DUI? Are our courts plagued with civil suits based on implicit assumptions of liability? What is the basis for lawsuits and the rationale used to support judgments?

As for the reference of a civil suit - in our litigeous society I can believe those occur but without knowing what suit, the outcome of the suit, and its particulars, I cannot see its applicability in this discussion. Again, look at what happens with DUI as a comparison and contrast to see how absurd the FUD mongering about civil liability due to 'exceeding the GCWR' may be. I'd also suggest considering taking a look at recent weight rating calculations methods changes in the RV industry and the history of RV's delivered from the manufacturer that have weight ratings such that any road ready configuration exceeds ratings.

Quote:
I could sit here and debate this subject, quote actual findings, proof, ETC, for the rest of my life and it is not going to teach you anything nor are you going to listen anyways
The problem is that there have been absolutely no "actual findings, proof, ETC" offered and I would be extremely gullible to go along with an assertion that has no rational basis and no such evidence. This, perhaps, is one of the more important points to be emphasized for anyone trying to make good decisions. Do you make decisions based solely on someone's say so or do you look for reasons why, supporting evidence, good rationale explaining conclusions, and a proper consideration of facets and unknowns and limitations of existing knowledge?

One of the ideas that should come out of a discussion like this is that you should read your insurance policy. See what it covers and review the list of limitations and exemptions. You might have an insurance agent or qualified lawyer help you understand the terms and meaning of the policy clauses. Contrast this approach to that suggested above and you might learn how to get the most from your money when seeking professional advice as well.

Understand why - don't just take somebody's word for it! (and be properly skeptical of your own conclusions, too)
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