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Old 06-23-2008, 06:52 AM   #15
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I'm certainly no expert when it comes to towing, and there are those on the Forum with much more experience. It is very confusing trying to even understand what some of these weight, tow capacity posts are trying to tell you. I pull a 1976, 31ft Sovereign with a 5.4L Triton V8 Ford and you can hardly tell it's back there. I try to pull the 24ft Argosy with the same set up and it seems like too much truck, too stiff a suspension for the Argosy. The 4.7L Tundra, is a much smoother pull for the Argosy and it does not struggle even with the Argosy "over fully" loaded. This week-end I saw a 15ft, SOB on its side on the highway, being pulled by a F-250. Don't know what happened; however, it was laid across the road and the Ford was upright. I'm thinking it was not a WD hitch with the sway bar and the wind just caught the trailer. Maybe too much truck and an over-confident driver? Good for you trying to get it right the first time. Take your time and take it slow. Just a note, pulled the 24ft Argosy home 800+ miles from El Paso, not knowing that it had no working brakes. Not one problem with the old F-150, with over 200K miles on it.
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Old 06-23-2008, 06:54 AM   #16
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There is no doubt that it couldn't be hitched up and be rolling down the highway but I'm wondering about the ability to have a controlled stop should you be placed in an emergency maneuver such as someone pulling out in front of you.
Good question. Many of us subscribe to an RV mag where so much towing information is talked about in detail. In this issue track testing revealed the unique towing characteristics of different types of vehicles and TT's.

RV Lifestyle - Hitch Hints
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:10 AM   #17
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the ability to have a controlled stop should you be placed in an emergency maneuver
This is why the law requires trailers to have brakes! Nearly any vehicle will have enough braking power to stop a trailer (what it does to the brakes is the issue!) but the fact is that stopping the trailer by tow vehicle alone is a recipe for disaster (i.e. jackknife). See the advice Ricky gets in the Long Long Trailer on this.

Also, you should never, ever engage in 'emergency maneuvers' with a trailer rig. The folks that think their RV will handle like a sports car are always disappointed, even with Airstreams. Trying to avoid something in the road is probably one of the major causes of loss of control crashes with RV's.

But it is interesting, isn't it, how this discussion has evolved? Power, then weight, then loading to silly extremes, now stopping power? Why are people looking so hard to find an excuse, a rationale, for why not? What is the real emotional investment?

As for track testing - that is a forte of Can Am RV and look what this forum did to Andy of that dealership on the topic.

I'd agree that a Sovereign is probably a bit big for an Ody. But I wouldn't dismiss it as not safe or totally impossible as some here seem to. The Ody is not as small a vehicle as some here seem to imply.
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:24 PM   #18
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All I can say is that if I hadn't steered slightly to the right as I braked then I would have torn the rear end out of a stupid idiot driving an Excursion who pulled out in front of me from a side street. He was moving out slowly so as to make my truck and a truck coming from the other direction have to both hit our brakes. While justice would have been for both of us to hit him at the same time and send him to the hospital, I didn't want to have to get my truck fixed. I sell one in a heartbeat if it is ever involved in a wreck.
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:19 AM   #19
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All I can say is that if I hadn't steered slightly to the right
ya' know, it gets really interesting the degree to which folks go to try to refute some things (or individuals). Knee jerk responses are just as dangerous in these discussions as they are on the road IMHO.

Do you really advocate sudden maneuvers with an RV as a general means to avoid disaster? Really?

Do you really think it a good idea to tell a newbie that he should swing the steering wheel to avoid things with his RV? Really?

What would happen if your "slightly" was 'slightly too much' ?? Perhaps you have the experience to know how much steering at what speed you can get away with but do you think it good advice to suggest others work that line as a general thing? Really?

And just what is an "emergency maneuver" anyway? Is it a slight change in steering or is it an effort to make a sudden large change in direction?

What you can get away with or what you may have survived is one thing. Those incidents may even provide material for examples and be useful if they can provide insight into general rules or concepts. Otherwise, it pays to consider just what you might be suggesting as driving advice and to whom you suggest it.
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:29 AM   #20
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I would like to add to the don't do it side of the arguement ,primarily because you WILL have situations that will test your combo ,your brakes ,your response time
and your patience .like climbing a steep grade with all that weight behind you .firtst of all ,the manafacturer says 3500 pounds ,thats it .anyone deciding how rediculouse that is and goes right ahead and does what some here are advicating to do is doing it
at your own risk and the risk of others .Nothing to do with emotions ,just have some common sense .veteren users on this forum have their own ideas ,mine is safety first
no matter what ,and you better dang well hope that honda can stop the trailer
if the brakes fail (no one chime in either as to how the brakes don't fail because they do) a tire blowout or two on the side of the road and the brake wires are ripped out
the brake controller may not function without continuity thru out the brake magnets.
I work on trailers all the time and have recently repaired torn wires ,the guys brakes didn't work after the blowout .you guys that keep climing its worth trying and why not
and so on re not helping in this persons decision . the brakes and wheel bearings and tires on the van are not designed for the kind of loading on them ,let alone the transmission ,is it rated for 7000 pounds of towing ? This same arguement over and over again so someone with a small undersized tow vehical feels like its ok to tow somthing a full size vehical should be towing .My advice to the honda owner ,LISTEN to the folks here that tow this size trailer with full size vehicals like davidsz71 ,thay know cause they have done it and I have too ,had to swerve around someone who cut out in the traffic lane ,i have full size rig pulling a 24ft tradewind ,no problem ,but
it was stressful ,yet knew i was able to control the trailer . I don't care what can-am does and respectfully ,they do go to extreme measures to make under sized and underpowered tow vehicals go down the road ,but that does not make it the right way to do it .

Scott of scottanlily
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:37 AM   #21
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Ill respond to lieppers posts real quickly .It sounds like you have not had the experience of having someone pull right infront of you or your trailer brakes failing down a grade .Possibly the experience of rich luhres tail of his wheels rolling down the hill from broken wheel studs ,his brakes overheating and so on .it absolutly does
happen and the crashes weve seen on the highway and experiences of other forum members like thecatsandi come to mind ,crash of her airstream and pickup on a snowy road ,not the freeway either ,all excellent reasons to be prepared ,so why argue the point or dimiss peolpe who are thinking out the towing scenario and erring
on good judgment .Im at a loss to understand ,i think its just to argue the point .

Scott
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Old 06-24-2008, 09:18 AM   #22
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It is indeed really amazing! now we have the gang up on unpleasant ideas phenomena!

Yes, *it happens; there is a surfeit of idiots out on the road; all drivers needs to be prepared. But take a look at the reaction here. Take a look at the assumptions being made, what assertions are being made, the scenarios being cited and their applicability to the issue at hand.

One thing to note is the selectivity being suggested in who you listen to. I see a 'listen to forum folks who agree with me and not to a dealer who does extensive testing and has a business on the line who does not' - listening to only what you want to hear is not, IMHO, a good way to learn. Then there is the denigration of others' (e.g. mine) experience when what is being said is disagreeable - don't you think it would be better to deal with the substance of the issue rather than to try to denigrate the person raising it?

Also note the value judgments such as about the "right way" to do things that is unconditional and absolute - but not qualified or supported in a rational way.

The FUD mongering about brakes is just that. Yes mechanical systems can fail. Mechanical failure is definitely something to warrant concern. That doesn't mean confusing going down hill in the wrong gear with the entirely different situation of a panic stop is pertinent.

Also note that questions raised were ignored, points bypassed, qualified opinions ignored, and issues diverted.

I don't think using an Ody to tow a Sovereign is anywhere near as far out of the distribution as some of the arguments being made here to rationalize it being a bad idea. That doesn't mean that the Ody would be a 'normal' tow vehicle but rather that some folks are reaching very very far into the fringes to explain their opinions about why it shouldn't be.
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Old 06-24-2008, 10:29 AM   #23
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There's at least one Honda/Airstream combo running the road. Last November I spotted the same unit twice in Natchez but never caught up with them to talk. They were towing a new 25' size, possibly heavier than a vintage 31'
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:36 AM   #24
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There's at least one Honda/Airstream combo running the road.
There are a lot more than just one. Check out posts #8 and #10....

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...lot-40240.html
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Old 06-24-2008, 02:32 PM   #25
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The Ody tow rating serves purposes other than helping folks determine what it will tow. OdyClub Forums has a number of discussions about towing with the Ody. Can Am RV in Ontario has helped a number of folks configure rigs that might not otherwise seem suitable to make comfortable (and safe) combinations.

The Ody has a 250 HP engine so it has the power. For the 2000's the weak spot may be the transmission but that can be handled with proper cooling.

i.e. towing with the Ody may make the weight police blanch but it can be done if the appropriate considerations are taken.

The 2000 model did not have the 250 hp motor. I'll elaborate, it had a 210 hp motor until 2004 when it got a 240 hp motor and then in 2005 up to 250hp.
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Old 06-24-2008, 02:49 PM   #26
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It is indeed really amazing! now we have the gang up on unpleasant ideas phenomena!
Happens on here all the time dude, if you don't listen to them and do as they do then you're a friggen idiot, even if you have had different personal experiences.

I like the way you think, appreciative sentiments previoulsy known here as Karma are coming your way.
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Old 06-24-2008, 05:38 PM   #27
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The 2000 model did not have the 250 hp motor. I'll elaborate, it had a 210 hp motor
Thanks for the clarification. Personally, I don't think it makes much difference as normal use doesn't really need that much power (Consider that 80,000 lb semis often only have 300 - 500 hp) It is the tranny and gearing that is more of a concern, especially on the pre 2005 Ody's.

I think that the increases in power and efficiency of modern vehicle engines and transmissions are an amazing advance that often seems taken for granted. It used to be that slogging up highway grades was accepted as a fact of life but now it seems expected that even an 8% grade shouldn't slow you down no matter the load or elevation.

Quote:
Happens on here all the time dude
yeah, I know. One of my pet causes is for better civility in these discussions so that some of the more interesting voices are less inhibited about offering their insights. I figure exposure is probably a good first step.

At the Western Pacific Ralroad Museum rally this past weekend I couldn't help but look at those locomotives (600,000 hp! ?) and think about the tow vehicles some folks seem to think appropriate. ;-) I guess Don has a bit more practical approach (see GOAL: Get Out And Look! on Zephyrs). Jerry says they used to have a smaller locomotive (only 6,000 hp?) in a parade in Hawthorne - that could look interesting towing an Airstream.
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Old 06-24-2008, 08:18 PM   #28
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A couple years ago I looked at the then new Pilot. It too had a 3500 lb towing capacity, but it had the added restriction of 25 square feet of frontal area.

My recollection is that this was to keep the transmission from leaking out the magic juice that makes it run, but I could be mistaken.
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