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Old 04-28-2004, 11:12 PM   #1
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Question Help for another newbie, Can I tow with an Infinity FX45

I am planning to purchase a AS CCD International 22' and the salesman from Woodland RV in Michigan assures me that my car can pull the trailer because he is deducting weight (20%) from the trailer for its aerodynamics and weight characteristics compared to other trailers.

Here are some particulars for the Infinity FX45:

- Tow hitch (no package) with 3500 lbs capacity
- Max tongue weight 350 lbs
- Curb weight 4,309 lbs
- V8, 315 Horses, with 329 ft lbs torque at 4000 RPM
- 5 speed automatic with manual shift mode
- Wheelbase 112.2 inches
- Width 75.8 inches
- Crossover design, 65 inches tall hence relatively low center of gravity
- 20' V rated all season tires
- Four wheel vented disc brakes with ABS
- Four wheel drive

I did my homework by reading many of the postings related to towing but no one else had ??? about Crossover SUV which is essentially a sports car in SUV disguise (concerned it might be impractical as a tow vehical??????). Additionally wanted to confirm the salesman's comments.

The FX45 is brand new with 75 miles on it. Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Nick
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Old 04-28-2004, 11:47 PM   #2
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Hi

Not an expert by any stretch - but I can tell you for a fact that our Kia although a V6 fairs better as a tow vehicle.

She's heavier, built on a ladder truck frame and has the available Gross Axle weight - about the same torque but longer wheel base.

It is all in the weight and how it is distributed. If you don't want to trade and into physics - then check out CanAms site and read all about the Hensley hitch. We don't have one - but like I said if you know physics then this is an alternative to changing your tow vehicle.

Also longevity of tow vehicle is a factor - yes a V6 will pouch before the V8 if driven hard - but if your rear axle can not take the weight in the first place then it does not matter how much power you have!

...and that is from a layman not a mechanic....here will follow the technical gear ratios and more intricate opinions of how your baby will handle your prospective CCD I-22....
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Old 04-28-2004, 11:53 PM   #3
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I don't know the trailer weight or hitch weight of the proposed 22' CCD. If you have those numbers, would help to publish. They are available on the airstream website if you don't have them.

Your salesman wants to sell a trailer. You don't discount anything on weight. You will get better gas mileage due to the airstream shape but,weight is weight.

You need to take airstream's weight and add to it for options, plus all the food, cooking gear, clothes, tools, tv, outdoor chairs, carpet,table, propane, water, hoses, elec cord, etc. The list is almost endless.

My 29' has a dry weight of 5300#; my loaded trailer weight on the scales was just a little over 6700# and I try to stay low on water. I'm retired and probably carry more than most people.
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Old 04-29-2004, 06:49 AM   #4
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According to the Infinit website, the SUV has some meat under the hood. That's great as the engine has more than enough power to tow even a 25' (maybe), so a 22' or less would be no problem for the engine.

But I still don't think it a good tow vehicle....why......well.........

It's a unibody frame. Infinit clearly states in the specs that it has a 350lb hitch weight and a 3500 tow rating. Even with the tow rating being a factory numbers game, you'd be exceeding that number by approx 1,100 lbs if you towed even a 19' Bambi and would exceed that hitch weight (without weight distribution) by 110lbs. Now as for the 22' CCD, per the 2004 specs, empty, the coach weight 4,043. It has a GVWR of 5600 lbs and has a hitch weight of 590lbs.

Given that the FX has a 112" wheelbase, that too adds to my concern, not alarm, concern.

By no means do I suggest you go out and get a 1 ton truck, but although your engine is up to the task, other components on the FX might not to be up to the task of a 5600lb RV. If I go by the specs, the largest you could tow would be a 16', maybe a 19' IMHO. See there are other things like cooling, gearing, transmission, axle ratings, tire ratings and a whole bunch of things to consider. I think the dealer would sell you a 34' if you let him/her.
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Old 04-29-2004, 10:09 AM   #5
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Hi

It is all in the weight and how it is distributed. If you don't want to trade and into physics - then check out CanAms site and read all about the Hensley hitch. We don't have one - but like I said if you know physics then this is an alternative to changing your tow vehicle.

"knowing" physics ...a hensley will not magically make weight disappear from a trailer. weight distribution is weight distribution; not weight evaporation. The hensley will eliminate sway...not weight.

nor will aerodynamics affect anything, either. sure, it'll be easier to pull an aerodynamic trailer on flat, level surfaces. but on a hill, weight is weight.
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Old 04-29-2004, 10:31 AM   #6
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wieght

I agree with the previous posters. Aerodynamics is important but does not impact GVWR or Hitch Weight. If the salesman is taking 20% off the weight for aerodynamics I'd be interested in his calculation for hot days with thinner air vs cold days, rainy days etc. He's talking apples to oranges. If you're borderline on the weight limits I suppose the hitch becomes even more important to control sway so it doesn't start moving the tow vehicle, also if you're primarily in flat country you can probably pull anything, mountains & grades would be a different story. I have the Reese Dual cam and am happy. If you're pushing the limits I'd suggest the Hensely if you can afford it. Good luck!
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Old 04-29-2004, 10:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
"knowing" physics ...a hensley will not magically make weight disappear from a trailer. weight distribution is weight distribution; not weight evaporation. The hensley will eliminate sway...not weight.

nor will aerodynamics affect anything, either. sure, it'll be easier to pull an aerodynamic trailer on flat, level surfaces. but on a hill, weight is weight.
Now did I imply that "magically weight will disappear???" I don't think so - I said check them out as it may be an alternative.

I totally agree weight is weight! any &%^%$$*&& knows that - including a dumb brunette! But what women know is how to distribute weight!

I don't know all the gross weight on nicks intended set up but CanAm would certainly be able to give them an accurate yeh/ney.

I think my point was perfectly clear - that weight distribution and the amount on the rear axles (including hitch weight which I thought is pretty much common sense) are probably the most important aspect of towing. So I'm sure Nick can read and determine for himself. - I have no idea what the new ones weigh and what options Nick would be looking at. So I trust he would add up the weight totals and then go do his research like all the rest of us newbies.

We were in the same shoes as he is not 3 months ago - just bought a brand new Kia before even thinking about a VAS - and were being told by a few on this site and many others that it only pulls 3500# when in fact it pulls the top end of 6K# (yes even with a pewny little V6).

We found out the hard way that weight ratings by the manufacturer are based on no set standards - so in Kia's case they changed their ratings from 5K# on the same vehicle down to 3500# from year to the next - purely because they did not have a "so-called" factory tow pacakge lined up yet" Nothing changed physically on the vehicle weight, engine, tires, suspension or anything.

So it pays to do your homework/research and sometimes getting by with a smaller tow vehicle until you can manage to get a bigger one for the long hauls is what you have to do.

Chuck I also did say that the Kia was a ladder truck frame - (this is the opposite of a unibody) - the very least for towing is a framed vehicle rather than a unibody - unless of course you want to leave your body behind one day.

So you are telling me that if I am close to my hitch weight that a "weight distribution system" (anymake don't really care) would not even out and maybe keep me under my max I don't think so....

Sounds like you have a little bit of a pee on regarding the Hensley - your perogative. Like I said we don't have one - but what I saw on how our reese hitch load levelers did to distribute our weight on our set up was amazing - and our little sway bar worked great too...and when I see the Hensley set up and how it works (not just with the sway!!!!) but with the distribution as well - no wonder they work!

Just my two cents - and try not to put words in my mouth Chuck - I have enough in there as it is
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Old 04-29-2004, 11:07 AM   #8
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Old 04-29-2004, 11:53 AM   #9
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CanAm....be afraid....be very afraid. Ever notice how it's always the Candadians that tow with the FWD V6s with the CanAms?
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Old 04-29-2004, 12:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT6921
Now did I imply that "magically weight will disappear???" I don't think so - I said check them out as it may be an alternative.
an alternative to an under-rated tow vehicle? no, it isn't. unless you can find away to "distribute" the weight to someone else's tow vehicle, and even the Hensley can't do that.

Quote:

I don't know all the gross weight on nicks intended set up but CanAm would certainly be able to give them an accurate yeh/ney.
Can Am will tell him that he can tow a 34 footer with a vw bug. doesn't mean its safe.

Quote:

I think my point was perfectly clear - that weight distribution and the amount on the rear axles (including hitch weight which I thought is pretty much common sense) are probably the most important aspect of towing.
Yes, I believe you were perfectly clear....and also, wrong. The most important aspect of towing is that the towed item's total weight does not exceed the tow vehicles capabilities. the Hensley has no affect on this whatsoever. ANY wd hitch will evenly distribute the weight evenly to the tow vehicles axles. If you take a 10k lbs and distribute it evenly between the 2 axles on my truck....it'll only mean that they'll snap at exactly the same time. What the Hensley does do, is alleviate sway, and it is somewhat magical in the way that it does this. If I had a big enough trailer, I'd love to have one. I don't have any beef with it. I'm sure its a fine product, and I can honestly say that I've never seen anyone say here, or anywhere else, that they bought one and weren't satisfied. But it does not spin gold from straw.


Quote:
So you are telling me that if I am close to my hitch weight that a "weight distribution system" (anymake don't really care) would not even out and maybe keep me under my max I don't think so....
No, not at all. that's exactly what a WD hitch is for. Hitch weight, or "tounge" weight. It does not change the vehicle's gross weight capacity, or the gross weight of the trailer.

for example: my trucks tow rating is >7000lbs. my trailer only weighs 5500lbs. No problem, right? wrong. the hitch weight on the trailer is 590lbs, and the trucks hitch is only rated for 500lbs....BUT, its rated for 1000 with a WD hitch. The rear axle could support the 600lbs...but hanging way back there by the bumper, the rear end sags so low that the front axle becomes unloaded, which is a dangerous condition, affecting steering and braking. "distributing" 300lbs of that load to the front axle alleviates that problem. It does not, however, make the truck as a unit, able to pull more weight.
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Old 04-29-2004, 12:07 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by smartworker
I am planning to purchase a AS CCD International 22' and the salesman from Woodland RV in Michigan assures me that my car can pull the trailer because he is deducting weight (20%) from the trailer for its aerodynamics and weight characteristics compared to other trailers.

Cheers,

Nick
Nick, this is probably THE most exciting concept in Airstream sales I've heard in a long time: Selling Airstreams by the pound! Wow! So ask him if he'll deduct 20% off the price since you're obviously buying 20% less weight on your tow vehicle!

The other posts are right on. Your car "may be able" to tow it, but that's significantly different from "ought to tow it". Remember, you're going to have a 5600lb trailer pushing your 4300lb SUV. Check the rated numbers very carefully. If you have to ask whether "overrated" numbers will work, you're probably pushing it. That means it will work just fine, until some lunkhead pulls out in front of you and you have to panic stop, or weave around somebody's couch on the interstate... as was stated... physics is physics!

Good luck with your decision!

Roger
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Old 04-29-2004, 04:11 PM   #12
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You go guy!
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Old 04-29-2004, 04:27 PM   #13
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You go guy!
Hey, Tin Hut... did you do 12 ounce curls for lunch again????

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Old 04-29-2004, 04:35 PM   #14
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12 oz

I measure my weight lifting in liters and pints now, not oz.
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