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Old 04-29-2004, 04:42 PM   #15
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Old 04-29-2004, 04:43 PM   #16
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Nick,

Thought I would jump in here too.

The previous posters have said what I would say regarding the abilities of the proposed tow vehicle. The only issue I have is the discussion of the trailer outweighing the tow vehicle. If a 4300 LB Pickup can tow a 25-28 footer based on manufacturers data, why not a 4300 pound crossover pulling a 22 footer? The Unibody is my only concern on the strength issue. Ladder frame is better.

The issue that I think all of them, and maybe you, are missing is the fact that this is a BRAND NEW 40+K vehicle with less than 100 miles on the clock.

If you were to get an Airstream and tow it behind your FX45 you will have to be quick on your feet when you take it in for ANY warranty service, and maybe any service. Infiniti will not stand behind any drive train issues, or possibly any warranty issues, if they find you are towing over the max weight rating. I own an Infinti, and I will tell you right now they are not cheap to fix should something major go wrong after the warranty period. Love the car, but cringe anytime I have to visit a dealer.

If you wish to do it anyway with all of the info posted, I would find a shop along the lines of a Can AM that will engineer a hitch that can handle the load. The factory one will not be up to the task either. leaving the hitch and the trailer at a stop light would ruin your whole trip

Based on the old vintage calculations you have enough horsepower, the wheelbase is a bit iffy, but if you stay short on the trailer you can do it.

Just remember, you will be towing with an underrated tow vehicle and need to be aware of the issues regarding liability should you have an accident, as well as possible warranty issues with the Tow vehicle. You may want to ask your insurance company if they will insure this setup.

I know it is not as sexy but have you considered upgrading to the QX56? It has a 9K towing capacity in a 2wd model. It is based on the Nissan Armada.
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Old 04-29-2004, 04:52 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewkid64
Just remember, you will be towing with an underrated tow vehicle and need to be aware of the issues regarding liability should you have an accident, as well as possible warranty issues with the Tow vehicle. You may want to ask your insurance company if they will insure this setup.
Well said, Brett. You managed, in a couple of brief sentences to say what I was mucking about trying to say. The insurance companies and their adjusters are the folks who determine who has liability, how much, and why. Even if it's a clear case of the other guy screwed up, you could still be assessed part of the liability based on your setup. It's really your insurance company's blessing that counts!

Roger
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Old 04-29-2004, 08:52 PM   #18
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I'mbbbackkk

I thought forum protocal was someone posted a question and anyone can offer an opinion - and not that each opinion is then debated taking the thread so far out in left field.....

Sorry Nick this is your thread...and I hope you are able to solve your weight issue..

All I really was trying to say - is dig a little deeper because sometimes the rating put out by the car companies marketing department is not exactly what the manufactured rating is - and rather than just looking at the GVWR - look at the GAWR - rear axle specifically.

Unless your vehicle came with a hitch (which I was not sure if it did by your post - thus I would not know the weight as class II and III hitches have different weight ratings as does the size of the Hitch Ball.

Originally the Kia was rated for 5000# then down to 3500# the following year - but when we had our dealer install the hitch option for the "Tow Package" they put on a class III (Max 5000# with 500# on the ball) so if the vehicle can not tow that weight then why are they installing it - they are asking for law suits. When we bought our Kia we specifically stated we needed a vehicle that could pull 5K# for our boat - never mind any trailer at that point and we were assured it can.

It was not until I put the question to this forum that I was sent on a wild goose chase - to ensure that this vehicle we just bought could pull 3300# - dry and about 4500# full. I found out quickly that there are varied opinions on this forum when it comes to the tow vehicle and the overall package as well as how some look at towing in general and it paid for us to do our own research.

However it was still great to read everyones opinions as all situations are different.

Not everything you read it "legit"...example the Volkswagon fiasco - and the Tourag. A similar situation happened with one of the Dodge Ram Trucks a few years back - the truck sat spinning it's wheels going nowhere with weights well under it's listed capacities - Rick I am no expert and just here to offer friendly opinons based on our own experiences.

We have not tackled the mountains yet, nor have we hit the prarie head winds and I suspect that we will not be going top speeds either - but then we will be on vacation!!!!.....and as long as our brakes are up to top notch mechanical order - MoonBeam will not be pushing "Kiacanto" around



Okay sorry I can not resist - Did I mention that I was the one they would ask to go tell the school yard bully to stop picking on the helpless......

Quote:
Ever notice how it's always the Candadians that tow with the FWD V6s with the CanAms?
That's because our gas prices are higher and we don't have a fetish of pulling our toys at 70+ miles an hour up and down hills

Quote:
an alternative to an under-rated tow vehicle?
If I did not know the weight of Nicks intended purchase or the details of the Infiniti - how would I know it was under rated???? - Just indicated if he thought he was going to be close to check out the Hensley WD&S system.

Quote:
.....wrong.
but I was not implying right or wrong....


Humdedumdedum......can't wait to meet you guys one day - we'd have some pretty good debates I think
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Old 04-29-2004, 09:38 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by GT6921
All I really was trying to say - is dig a little deeper because sometimes the rating put out by the car companies marketing department is not exactly what the manufactured rating is - and rather than just looking at the GVWR - look at the GAWR - rear axle specifically.
A very good, and often overlooked point. In theory, my Chevy K2500 is rated to pull something like a 15,000 lb. fifth wheel - but oh! That 2,200 lb. load on the rear axle!! Not a chance.

And don't forget the front axle. Weight distribing bars shift weight onto the front axle. Many vehicles are precious close to their rated front axle loads with only passengers on board. This factor alone often explains seeming under rating of tow capacity. Excess loading on the front wheels will not only lead to expensive repairs, but will seriously affect handling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT6921
Originally the Kia was rated for 5000# then down to 3500# the following year - but when we had our dealer install the hitch option for the "Tow Package" they put on a class III (Max 5000# with 500# on the ball) so if the vehicle can not tow that weight then why are they installing it - they are asking for law suits. When we bought our Kia we specifically stated we needed a vehicle that could pull 5K# for our boat - never mind any trailer at that point and we were assured it can.
Maybe Kia changed something critical to tow capacity. Or maybe they realized they had made a mistake. Either way, the "5000 lbs" rating on the dealer installed hitch means nothing, nothing at all in relation to your tow vehicle. To suggest that somehow puts a dealer stamp of approval on a 5,000 lb. limit is simply not true. And as for being "assured" it is good for your "5K boat", they did this by showing you the ratings in the manual, or dealer service manuals, or something authoritative from the manufacturer, right? You didn't just take a verbal "ok" from the salesman?

Note to Canadians: In the U.S., there have been recorded instances of salesmen LYING about tow capacity to make a sale or to keep a customer from being mad at them. These are rare instances, and are always rigourously punished, but it has been known to happen.

Here is how it works in the U.S. - You lose control of your vehicle while towing and there is an accident. It is discovered that you are have a load that exceeds ANY ONE of the various limiting capacities: axle ratings, gross vehicle weight rating, combined gross vehicle weight rating, gross weight rating of trailer, or tongue weight. Someone darted into your lane? Doesn't matter. Sudden strong gust of wind? Doesn't matter. Tire blew? Doesn't matter. YOU will be the one with a very good chance of being found liable for your and any other parties' damage. Not some lying salesman. Not somebody somewhere else who "is doing it".

And your insurance company will appear in court AGAINST you, not for you.

But, maybe you can beat it. Maybe.

Canadian law is almost certainly different.

Mark
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Old 04-29-2004, 09:39 PM   #20
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I'm not sure quite how to respond to that last post other than I wouldn't do what you are doing GT. Nor do I tow at 70 mph up hills. That might be a bit stereotypical. At any rate, my vote is still a no joy on the Nick's tow vehicle. I think folks here have given him some good feedback and now the decsion is up to him.

Bottom line, sales folks would place their mothers on the back to hold on to the trailer to make a sale...makes it neither right, nor safe.

To answer the question of:

"If I did not know the weight of Nicks intended purchase or the details of the Infiniti - how would I know it was under rated????"

Look it up before speaking. It's all on the web. Nick gave all the info on the truck and then said he wanted a 22' CCD. A few keystrokes and mouse clicks and you'd have your info. That's what I did at least.

Eric
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Old 04-30-2004, 09:37 AM   #21
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A tow vehicle has to do two things trailering. It has to PULL the trailer while still propelling its own weight, and it has to CARRY the trailer tongue weight while still carrying its own weight. Although you may have plenty of power to pull more than 3500 lbs of trailer and carry more than 350 lbs of load, the structure of the vehicle is not designed to pull loads greater than 3500 lbs or carry more than 350 lbs way back behind the rear bumper.

A unibody vehicle is like a car made out of playing cards. The sheetmetal is arranged to give just adequate strength in certain directions in the areas needed. If the manufacturer rates the vehicle for handling 350 lbs of tongue weight and 3500 lbs, they've arranged sheetmetal to handle that much and no more.

They have clearly NOT designed the vehicle for a weight-distributing hitch! That's why they put a Class II hitch on it. Weight-distributing hitches will put forces on the sheetmetal in directions it was not designed to handle.

The salesman is blowing smoke. Airstream makes a trailer specifically designed for Class II vehicles, the 16' CCD.
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Old 04-30-2004, 10:01 AM   #22
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Seems like this is the second time lately that we've heard of an AS salesman pushing an unsafe combo just to make a trailer sale. That's bad business to me, because I've seen how many happy forum members have bought one new AS and then upgraded a year or so later. Selling a bad combo to someone is only going to make their life miserable and give AS a bad name.

I am amazed when I see the AS brochure that says things like a Safari can be 'easily towed by many of todays most popular sport/utility vehicles and minivans'. Find me a minivan that can pull 6300lbs! My full size E150 is only rated for 6000lbs! And that's not even accounting for the short wheelbase on most SUVs.

Picking out a tow vehicle is difficult, and it's expensive to get the wrong thing and change halfway through. AS should make a policy of helping their customers to do the correct, safe thing the first time, not saying whatever is necessary to make the sale.
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Old 04-30-2004, 10:11 AM   #23
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I used to own a 21' Hi-Lo travel trailer that I used to tow with a 1991 Chevy Astro EXT van. The van was rated to tow 6,500 lbs. and with the optional premium gassed V6, 4.10 rear axle and factory towing package, the Astro was a stump puller. I had a Reese dual cam sway control and overall with proper towing conditions, it handled the weight of that 21' trailer with ease and was a joy to tow with.

I decided to upgrade to a 28' aluminum framed SOB. Weight wise the 28' trailer was only 1,000 heavier than the Hi-Lo so I was well within the tow limits of the van. Add the element of strong wind, big trucks, and wheel base of the Astro, towing that 28' trailer became a chore. It wasn't an inability to control sway, it was more the fact that the van just didn't have the mass and wheel base to deal with the wind forces that came to bear. That trailer makes a pretty big sail and I worked hard to keep things stable. After 300 miles I'd arrive at a campground pretty whipped.

Technically everything was within specs and installed correctly. But was it a good towing vehicle for a 28' trailer? No. I traded for a full sized van after the first year.

That full sized van had the same towing capacity of the Astro but it was night and day difference. Same dual cam sway control but the mass of that large tow vehicle and big wheel base made towing a pleasure.

Those who choose to tow with marginal vehicles eventually understand what most of us are talking about. Hard to argue with the sales folks, both RV dealers and vehicle manufactures when they tell you that these marginal tow vehicles are ok. Problem is that most of them have never seriously towed anything of their own. They really don't know. The school of hard knocks is the ultimate teacher and the lessons will ultimately be learned.

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Old 04-30-2004, 11:14 AM   #24
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I think the Astro is almost a mid-size van, something between the true minis like the Windstar (I think it has a different name this year) and Caravans, which far outnumber it. However, when I was tow vehicle shopping I passed on the Astro as well because reports I heard indicated that the tranny just wasn't up to the challenge over time.

My full size van could probably pull even more with a more towing-friendly rear end ratio. Can't complain about it though, because the weight and wheelbase makes it stable as a rock. And when I'm on vacation that's what I want, no worries!

I think the AS company would do well to encourage their salesmen to live up to a higher standard when it comes to helping people pick out the right tow vehicle/trailer combo. I expect that of a top-of-the-line RV company.
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Old 05-03-2004, 09:24 AM   #25
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Talking Decided to buy a CCD 16'

Hey all,

Thanks for your many perspectives. I have decided to buy the 16' Bambi CCD. I like my FX too much to do otherwise.

Cheers,

Nick
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Old 05-03-2004, 08:09 PM   #26
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Nick,

Excellent choice on the 16' CCD. We've had ours almost a year now and pull it effortlessly with a 4L Ranger. The 16' is so easy to tow and maneuver. We were given a really sweet site right on the Icicle River in Leavenworth, WA that a bigger trailer couldn't get into. We've taken four 2 week trips and are heading out for #5 next week. Check out threads for the 16' for more info. And welcome to the little guys.
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