Help choosing new 3/4 ton truck

[4RXLA]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi



Ahhhh, but do you want to buy one the first year they are out?



Not a knock, but indeed a question I've been thinking over.



Bob

No. I’m going to wait until 2021-22 to see how the new engine performs. My 2010 V10 has 85,000 miles and can give me a couple more years. The new truck will be my retirement gift and will travel the country on long trips.

[mkcurtiss]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Haven't had a wear problem with my Michelins on my diesel. I got 55K on my first set in 2 years of towing the AS 22K miles...they still had good tread, but I wanted to get the sale price discount at Costco ($130) on new Michelins before my trip to MT, so I upgraded a bit early. (I am now at 65K miles on this trip with the new Michelines; 10K miles and no signs of wear; rotated twice so far.)

I still get 16-17MPG with my 6.7L and 13.2 pulling our 28...but I have no experience with the 6.2L to compare the difference in HP or torque. I did not drive the new 6.2L when I was looking few years back, going up from the F150EB to the F250 diesel...wife was sold on the King Ranch 6.7L diesel and I didn't want to argue!

Understand the $$ savings in fuel costs and maintenance over the 6.2L gas model, but not sure about longevity of that engine vs the 6.7L diesel... Would be interested in that data?

Think about it.....it really does not matter....
1) Even if that diesel motor would last for 65 million miles, the rest of the truck is not going to last beyond 300,000, and that is a push at that

2) None of us are going to strike out on a vacation, into the middle of nowhere, in a vehicle with more than 150,000 miles on it.....at least I am not, because if that thing breaks down, its my neck in a sling.

3)if that diesel breaks down in that same middle of nowhere, when your lady realizes how long it will take to find a mechanic to fix it, she will be very very unhappy and you just became responsible for destroying a vacation....not good......diesels in consumer line vehicles are just not a good idea......it just does not work out numerically, no matter how you slice it..........

[out of sight]

I towed with a 3 liter diesel SUV for 30,000 tow miles and at that point I recovered the $3000 for the diesel option in fuel economy. I now tow with a Cummins 6.7 and my calculations show I will recover the $9000 option at around 90,000 tow miles. Aside from that a diesel is a great joy to tow with. Nothing is cooler than chugging along at highway speeds at 1000 to 1500 RPM.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by out of sight

Aside from that a diesel is a great joy to tow with. Nothing is cooler than chugging along at highway speeds at 1000 to 1500 RPM.

I think you meant that a turbocharged engine is a great joy to tow with. With that I agree.

My factory stock 3.0 gasoline inline six (twin turbo) reached peak torque at 1200 or so rpm. It was perfectly capable of cruising at highway speeds at that rpm. Good fuel economy, if a little boring. But when I wanted to, I could take it to redline (7000 rpm). Now that was cool. Can't do that with your diesel

[wimpy]

Originally Posted by superChop

Our 2WD has 18 inch Continental Tires, which is the size we wanted, but not the brand. The dealer could not change to Michelin’s for us.

FWIW, I've used Continental tires on my limo sedan fleet for years & have no issues. They typically have superior wet traction compared to ANY other brand, however, that might not be a guarantee on the truck tires.

[Starlight Mike]

Originally Posted by mkcurtiss

Think about it.....it really does not matter....
1) Even if that diesel motor would last for 65 million miles, the rest of the truck is not going to last beyond 300,000, and that is a push at that

2) None of us are going to strike out on a vacation, into the middle of nowhere, in a vehicle with more than 150,000 miles on it.....at least I am not, because if that thing breaks down, its my neck in a sling.

3)if that diesel breaks down in that same middle of nowhere, when your lady realizes how long it will take to find a mechanic to fix it, she will be very very unhappy and you just became responsible for destroying a vacation....not good......diesels in consumer line vehicles are just not a good idea......it just does not work out numerically, no matter how you slice it..........

The 900 ft lbs of torque in my diesel will always get my vote

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by mkcurtiss

Think about it.....it really does not matter....
1) Even if that diesel motor would last for 65 million miles, the rest of the truck is not going to last beyond 300,000, and that is a push at that

2) None of us are going to strike out on a vacation, into the middle of nowhere, in a vehicle with more than 150,000 miles on it.....at least I am not, because if that thing breaks down, its my neck in a sling.

3)if that diesel breaks down in that same middle of nowhere, when your lady realizes how long it will take to find a mechanic to fix it, she will be very very unhappy and you just became responsible for destroying a vacation....not good......diesels in consumer line vehicles are just not a good idea......it just does not work out numerically, no matter how you slice it..........

Not sure your realistic with your comment; 65million miles? (but, then again, perhaps you are??)

I am not concerned about this diesel "breaking down" in the middle of nowhere; nowhere in North America typically has diesel
mechanics when needed, (wifes idea to get the diesel anyway)....and I am not concerned about taking a long trip with 150K miles on this engine. To date, I have 68K miles as of last night arriving in Austin, in just over 2 years since new, with no issues. Still, I did purchase the 100K warranty at dealers pricing ($2400) as insurance, and likely will extend when I get close to 100K in couple years. Like many of us who are driving newer 3/4-1T diesel powered TV's, what I can tell you is the difference in towing at 60-65mph with a larger AS (25' or larger) is night and day where we travel...up down the Rockies, at 1500rpm...no white knuckle driving, no brake worries, no power/torque issues...no payload issues...my friend's V10 powered MH can't get past 50mph pulling his little Jeep up grades...guess in the end, we all have our concerns about something.

[mefly2]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Not sure your realistic with your comment; 65million miles? (but, then again, perhaps you are??)

I am not concerned about this diesel "breaking down" in the middle of nowhere; nowhere in North America typically has diesel
mechanics when needed, (wifes idea to get the diesel anyway)....and I am not concerned about taking a long trip with 150K miles on this engine. To date, I have 68K miles as of last night arriving in Austin, in just over 2 years since new, with no issues. Still, I did purchase the 100K warranty at dealers pricing ($2400) as insurance, and likely will extend when I get close to 100K in couple years. Like many of us who are driving newer 3/4-1T diesel powered TV's, what I can tell you is the difference in towing at 60-65mph with a larger AS (25' or larger) is night and day where we travel...up down the Rockies, at 1500rpm...no white knuckle driving, no brake worries, no power/torque issues...no payload issues...my friend's V10 powered MH can't get past 50mph pulling his little Jeep up grades...guess in the end, we all have our concerns about something.

Diesel mechanic and parts in Lincoln, MT ??

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by mefly2

Diesel mechanic and parts in Lincoln, MT ??

Actually, yes there are a few folks up there I know who can help out if I had a problem; everyone seems to own a diesel truck in MT!...Helena is only 45 miles away also for parts and we have great delivery service via FedEx and UPS. Also, I have AAA if needed..not to worry! Now that Kazinski is gone, the whole Lincoln area is bustling!

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by mefly2

Diesel mechanic and parts in Lincoln, MT ??

Hi

I'm a couple miles down the road from there right now. I think it's a pretty good bet that you can get your diesel serviced there. Parts wise, I can't get parts for my gas F250 without waiting a bit in a lot of places (depends a lot on what part).... I have data on this ....

Bob

[mkcurtiss]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Not sure your realistic with your comment; 65million miles? (but, then again, perhaps you are??)

I am not concerned about this diesel "breaking down" in the middle of nowhere; nowhere in North America typically has diesel
mechanics when needed, (wifes idea to get the diesel anyway)....and I am not concerned about taking a long trip with 150K miles on this engine. To date, I have 68K miles as of last night arriving in Austin, in just over 2 years since new, with no issues. Still, I did purchase the 100K warranty at dealers pricing ($2400) as insurance, and likely will extend when I get close to 100K in couple years. Like many of us who are driving newer 3/4-1T diesel powered TV's, what I can tell you is the difference in towing at 60-65mph with a larger AS (25' or larger) is night and day where we travel...up down the Rockies, at 1500rpm...no white knuckle driving, no brake worries, no power/torque issues...no payload issues...my friend's V10 powered MH can't get past 50mph pulling his little Jeep up grades...guess in the end, we all have our concerns about something.

I have an e-350...I know all about towing with big vehicles and how nice it is....

And you are right, there is nothing to worry about, diesels never break, and there are mechanics at every mom and pop garage , until yours breaks, and even the dealer nearest you, does not have a mechanic, and your truck has to be towed 200 miles to a shop that has the means to fix it.......none of that matters, until it matters.......plenty of horror stories on here about it.....but its all good.....some people have good luck with them....
my brother has a Dodge with the Cummins, and its great, until it breaks down, which has happened 5 times while he was out of town......but when it is running its great !

[slowmover]

“. . can’t get past 50-mph on grade ascent”.

Someone explain why this matters. Ever.


Only the downslope matters. One MUST:

1). Maintain adequate space to accelerate at wide open throttle.

2). Using TRAILER BRAKES ONLY against that.

— How will the TT brakes do with its own weight AND a 9,000-lb accelerating pickup versus a 5,000-lb car?

— Is the suitable upgrade a yet heavier TV, or antilock travel trailer disc brakes?

Hmm, this might take awhile to figure out . . . .

Is a pickup needed in the first place? What’s the weight/size/type of gear which CANNOT go in the TV passenger compartment or TT?

Given the unlikelihood that is met:

When loaded, solo, (max fuel and passengers included) does the TV show an approximate 50/50 weight bias from front to rear?

Why not?

The claim that a pickup is “better” rides on this assertion.


Gasoline versus diesel hasn’t mattered in a dozen years for this trailer type. The price of diesel is now high enough to capture the 1/3 higher energetic content per gallon, AND overly restrictive emissions controls have made the engine un-economic as IT WILL NOT significantly outlast the gas engine choice. Any repairs at all due to mis-use will kill that approach (like, 30% or more total miles driven solo, empty).

900 LBS/FT. You guys crack me up. The truck computer DOESN'T allow that type of number unless criteria is met. What’s the quarter-mile time? Just a WHOLE lot faster than it’s 2009 predecessor, or about the same? Power you can’t use doesn’t exist.

Go buy a 19,000-lb lumbering whale 5th wheel. Then you can “justify” the choice with numbers.

That’s called, analysis. Sorely lacking in most of these threads.

You got the trailer right if road-going stability means anything. But killed it with a poor TV choice.

Let’s go back to the grade descent: To maintain hundreds of feet of open space out ahead means your speed relative to others will require what?

Now, the grade ascent similarity: in the event of disabled vehicle or an accident out ahead, panic WILL set in among all the usual idiots who will change lanes directly in front of you and even come to a stop. You WON’T have adequate stopping distance if your travel speed is significantly higher than the SLOWEST vehicle on the ascent. Why?

Of course, you’ve TESTED the handicap in braking distance you’ve given yourself by using a pickup. What is that distance at 60-mph?. As PROPER hitch rigging is a requirement (optional according to pickup owners, ha!) the combined rig SHOULD stop faster than the TV when solo. If you screwed up adequate TW distribution to the TT, this ain’t be so. And you screwed it up if the TT rides anything OTHER THAN dead level. The typical one ton type has the TT bouncing along on the front trailer axle. Means you have two, not four, trailer brakes when it counts.

A loaded pickup (50/50) will, with trailer properly-hitched will still need in excess of 350’. Call it 400’ with reaction time. Dry asphalt and no grade involved. Trailers with drum brakes can push that farther out on a difficult stop (they rapidly fade in effectiveness).

What did your tests show?

Get a clue. The immaturity is blinding. Get serious, and get help where needed. Watching Utube NEW TRUCK REPORTS ain’t it.

.

[21Airstream]

Originally Posted by mkcurtiss

... if that diesel breaks down in that same middle of nowhere, when your lady realizes how long it will take to find a mechanic to fix it, she will be very very unhappy and you just became responsible for destroying a vacation....not good......diesels in consumer line vehicles are just not a good idea......it just does not work out numerically, no matter how you slice it..........

I’m not trying to start anything (or hijack this thread) but that’s not the way my lady thinks...

[Bill M.]

"2) None of us are going to strike out on a vacation, into the middle of nowhere, in a vehicle with more than 150,000 miles on it.....at least I am not, because if that thing breaks down, its my neck in a sling.

3)if that diesel breaks down in that same middle of nowhere, when your lady realizes how long it will take to find a mechanic to fix it, she will be very very unhappy and you just became responsible for destroying a vacation....not good......diesels in consumer line vehicles are just not a good idea......it just does not work out numerically, no matter how you slice it.........."

Well, I guess I am just lucky. 240000 miles so far. Spent the summer in Montana. Saw diesel pickups everywhere. I expect the wreckers are used to long runs there. Did have to have a main bearing oil seal put in while in Colorado. It did take 3 days. Rented a nice little jeep to get around in. The math has worked well for us. Plus I like driving the diesel. 15 mpg towing beats the 10 mpg I got with my F150. 18-20 not towing is not great, but it is livable. But I am too old to buy another diesel, I think. Will keep this one until it quits, lock it up on the side of the road, catch a ride to town and buy a new F150. If I thought I had 10 more years to pull then I would go with a 2500 diesel.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by slowmover

“. . can’t get past 50-mph on grade ascent”.

Someone explain why this matters. Ever.


Only the downslope matters. One MUST:

1). Maintain adequate space to accelerate at wide open throttle.

2). Using TRAILER BRAKES ONLY against that.

— How will the TT brakes do with its own weight AND a 9,000-lb accelerating pickup versus a 5,000-lb car?

— Is the suitable upgrade a yet heavier TV, or antilock travel trailer disc brakes?

Hmm, this might take awhile to figure out . . . .

Is a pickup needed in the first place? What’s the weight/size/type of gear which CANNOT go in the TV passenger compartment or TT?

Given the unlikelihood that is met:

When loaded, solo, (max fuel and passengers included) does the TV show an approximate 50/50 weight bias from front to rear?

Why not?

The claim that a pickup is “better” rides on this assertion.


Gasoline versus diesel hasn’t mattered in a dozen years for this trailer type. The price of diesel is now high enough to capture the 1/3 higher energetic content per gallon, AND overly restrictive emissions controls have made the engine un-economic as IT WILL NOT significantly outlast the gas engine choice. Any repairs at all due to mis-use will kill that approach (like, 30% or more total miles driven solo, empty).

900 LBS/FT. You guys crack me up. The truck computer DOESN'T allow that type of number unless criteria is met. What’s the quarter-mile time? Just a WHOLE lot faster than it’s 2009 predecessor, or about the same? Power you can’t use doesn’t exist.

Go buy a 19,000-lb lumbering whale 5th wheel. Then you can “justify” the choice with numbers.

That’s called, analysis. Sorely lacking in most of these threads.

You got the trailer right if road-going stability means anything. But killed it with a poor TV choice.

Let’s go back to the grade descent: To maintain hundreds of feet of open space out ahead means your speed relative to others will require what?

Now, the grade ascent similarity: in the event of disabled vehicle or an accident out ahead, panic WILL set in among all the usual idiots who will change lanes directly in front of you and even come to a stop. You WON’T have adequate stopping distance if your travel speed is significantly higher than the SLOWEST vehicle on the ascent. Why?

Of course, you’ve TESTED the handicap in braking distance you’ve given yourself by using a pickup. What is that distance at 60-mph?. As PROPER hitch rigging is a requirement (optional according to pickup owners, ha!) the combined rig SHOULD stop faster than the TV when solo. If you screwed up adequate TW distribution to the TT, this ain’t be so. And you screwed it up if the TT rides anything OTHER THAN dead level. The typical one ton type has the TT bouncing along on the front trailer axle. Means you have two, not four, trailer brakes when it counts.

A loaded pickup (50/50) will, with trailer properly-hitched will still need in excess of 350’. Call it 400’ with reaction time. Dry asphalt and no grade involved. Trailers with drum brakes can push that farther out on a difficult stop (they rapidly fade in effectiveness).

What did your tests show?

Get a clue. The immaturity is blinding. Get serious, and get help where needed. Watching Utube NEW TRUCK REPORTS ain’t it.

.

You never cease to put a smile on our faces, Slowmover...not sure what your smoking or drinking, but it sure does bring out the very best in your comments and your experienced support about pulling an AS! Guess we are blessed to have such an expert helping us try to understand the challenges of life when pulling our AS's...

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by mkcurtiss

I have an e-350...I know all about towing with big vehicles and how nice it is....

And you are right, there is nothing to worry about, diesels never break, and there are mechanics at every mom and pop garage , until yours breaks, and even the dealer nearest you, does not have a mechanic, and your truck has to be towed 200 miles to a shop that has the means to fix it.......none of that matters, until it matters.......plenty of horror stories on here about it.....but its all good.....some people have good luck with them....
my brother has a Dodge with the Cummins, and its great, until it breaks down, which has happened 5 times while he was out of town......but when it is running its great !

I had an E350 also...(MBZ)...loved it! Only had it towed once after an accident I was involved with...I was in town, but it still took several hours to get hooked up and towed...not fun situation no matter what your driving...but it can/does happen I admit. Still, I am not concerned; why should you be? There are many stories in the Naked city....we are all playing the odds when on the road..no matter where we are, right?

[rhensley]

I much prefer sitting up in the bleachers and watching what's going on in the mud pits, but as we sold our 25' Serenity and ordered a new 27' Globetrotter, this thread and the one on what's necessary to tow a 27' AS are of interest to me now. Our 2017 Expedition with HD trailering is not goiing to cut it for payload, even though it was fine on our 25'.

First, I personally don't want a diesel for a number of reasons. Both GM and Ford have announced new gas engines for the HD pickups. I have been researching and have looked at a 2020 GMC Denaili with the 6.6l gas engine (BIG truck compared to the 2019 model). I have settled on a new 2020 F250 Super Duty with the new 7.3L gas engine and 10 speed automatic. 430HP @ 5,500 RPM and 475 lb-ft of torque at 4,000 RPM. I think it is going to do just fine with the 27' no matter where I want to go with it. I think it will even do a reasonable job going downhill with engine braking.

TFLTRUCK website has good information on both the GM and Ford engines.

Regards,
Ron

[mkcurtiss]

Originally Posted by 21Airstream

I’m not trying to start anything (or hijack this thread) but that’s not the way my lady thinks...

Mine either, but I have a super cool super hot lady who rolls with it...most guys do not....[ATTACH][/ATTACH]

[CRH]

I spent all day out in one of my trucks that has 220k on it. Bought it new. Would drive it anywhere, anytime.

[mefly2]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

I'm a couple miles down the road from there right now. I think it's a pretty good bet that you can get your diesel serviced there. Parts wise, I can't get parts for my gas F250 without waiting a bit in a lot of places (depends a lot on what part).... I have data on this ....

Bob

Even in Missoula there is often a wait for correct diesel parts ...even at a dealer!
Don't ask how I know ... but we have returned to gas for now.
As a native here in MT for 70+ years - my comment is that not everyone owns a diesel truck in Montana ... mostly young men of HS age, those who want to drive a big 3/4 or 1 T truck, are farmers, or posers! Few drive down the road in a diesel pick up out of need or capacity.

60 mph is 88 feet per second... to factor in to the above discussion.