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Old 05-22-2016, 04:53 PM   #15
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Going down into Death Valley from Towne Pass is a roughly 6,000 foot drop in elevation all at once on a 7% to 9% grade. I put the engine into the lowest gear possible. It revs 4,000 rpm plus but I keep the speed under 35 mph with engine braking and brakes. Even then I can tell the brakes are hot when we get to the bottom. Secret to safe driving downhill is keeping the speed down.
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Old 05-22-2016, 09:20 PM   #16
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as an aside..make sure that the connection between the AS and TV is secure. Mine disconnected on a long and steep downhill in western PA...trying to stop 5,000lbs pushing me on a steep incline was not fun for me or my truck. Couldn't have stopped if I had needed to. Needless to say I make sure the umbilical is safely connected. Safe travels. jon
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Old 05-23-2016, 09:53 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
I would only add, that you lock it in on the 4H all wheel drive mode. Makes all the difference down hill.
FF,
Excellent point as forgot to mention having the 4x4 and available AWD setting. Never used it except for test on a ski trip/mostly cleared road.

Anyone else out there using the AWD setting while towing and would it be good mechanical practice all the time or just anticipated downhills ? Also Shifting to it while freeway speeds or only stopped ?
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Old 05-23-2016, 10:07 AM   #18
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You want to be very careful when using 4 wheel drive on dry roadways. AWD is intended to be used on dry pavement but not all 4 wheel drives are.

My Dodge, which I used for plowing had a front axle with gears set 2% higher than the rear. Geart for steering on snow. Some Fords have problems in that the front end will jump off the pavement. So read manual or check on gravel before shifting into 4 wheel on the fly.
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Old 05-23-2016, 11:20 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
You want to be very careful when using 4 wheel drive on dry roadways. AWD is intended to be used on dry pavement but not all 4 wheel drives are.

My Dodge, which I used for plowing had a front axle with gears set 2% higher than the rear. Geart for steering on snow. Some Fords have problems in that the front end will jump off the pavement. So read manual or check on gravel before shifting into 4 wheel on the fly.
All "true" 4wd vehicles will "crow hop" on dry pavement, while in 4wd, while turning.
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Old 05-24-2016, 01:38 PM   #20
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All "true" 4wd vehicles will "crow hop" on dry pavement, while in 4wd, while turning.
That is very true.
You notice it while parking or such tight turning situation at slow speed. I normally disengage it as soon as I am of the highway. In regular highway driving I have not experienced it. The difference in descending on steep grades with it engaged is day and night.
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Old 05-24-2016, 01:42 PM   #21
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That is very true.
You notice it while parking or such tight turning situation at slow speed. I normally disengage it as soon as I am of the highway. In regular highway driving I have not experienced it. The difference in descending on steep grades with it engaged is day and night.

I wouldn't do it on dry pavement, ever. You won't experience crow hopping, except on hairpin curves, but the system is always in a bind, as even rolling tire diameters are never exactly the same, let alone any steering input causing a bind. It is very hard on the transfer case to drive on dry pavement....not as bad in rain, but I avoid it unless absolutely necessary.
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Old 05-25-2016, 02:52 PM   #22
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I wouldn't do it on dry pavement, ever. You won't experience crow hopping, except on hairpin curves, but the system is always in a bind, as even rolling tire diameters are never exactly the same, let alone any steering input causing a bind. It is very hard on the transfer case to drive on dry pavement....not as bad in rain, but I avoid it unless absolutely necessary.
I would classify descending on a steep grade using engine brake as a situation where safety would dictate it to be necessary.
I don't believe the transfer case is a fragile piece of equipment on a truck designed for heavy towing. Your suggestion is misguided and there are enough people having anxiety attacks about other things on these forums without adding another.
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Old 05-25-2016, 03:30 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
I would classify descending on a steep grade using engine brake as a situation where safety would dictate it to be necessary.
I don't believe the transfer case is a fragile piece of equipment on a truck designed for heavy towing. Your suggestion is misguided and there are enough people having anxiety attacks about other things on these forums without adding another.
Ok, if you say so. Guess my formal education, OTJ training and experience has taught me nothing. Here's what the manufacturer (my employer) has to say about it:

Drive Systems
Four-Wheel Drive
If equipped, four-wheel drive
engages the front axle for extra
traction. Read the appropriate
section for transfer case operation
before using.
{Caution
Driving on clean, dry pavement in
four-wheel drive for an extended
period of time may cause
premature wear on the system.
The damage would not be
covered by the vehicle warranty.
Driving on clean, dry pavement in
four-wheel drive may:
. Cause a vibration to be felt in
the steering system.
. Cause tires to wear faster.
. Make the transfer case harder to
shift, and cause it to run noisier.

But I am not sure what the big deal is anyway, I have NEVER had the rear tires want to slide on dry pavement while using lower gears on severe hills in all my years of towing...and yes, many times on 7 - 8% grades.
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Old 05-25-2016, 08:59 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
I would classify descending on a steep grade using engine brake as a situation where safety would dictate it to be necessary.
I don't believe the transfer case is a fragile piece of equipment on a truck designed for heavy towing. Your suggestion is misguided and there are enough people having anxiety attacks about other things on these forums without adding another.
several have given reason why engaging 4 wheel drive on dry pavement is not a good idea. If you have not accepted the reasoning to date look at it this way. Those that have done it have commented there is an additional retarding effect. Where can that additional retard come from? It comes from the scrapping of the mismatched tires rotation. That can be from different diameter tires due to different ware patterns and the fact that is not a differential between the front and rear axle.

I had a tire company put a mismatched tire on the rear of one of the school buses I managed. It wore the other tire out in less than a week. You decide how often you want to buy tires.
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Old 05-26-2016, 12:44 AM   #25
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4WD vs. AWD?

I think there may be some confusion between four wheel drive (4WD) and all wheel drive (AWD). All wheel drive vehicles like Subarus, Acuras, Hondas, BMWs, etc. are designed to operate on dry pavement. Traditional four wheel drive trucks are not designed to operate in four wheel drive on dry pavement.

I am not sure if all late model four wheel drive trucks that also have an AWD mode should operate on dry pavement and I have one (F-150 Lariat). I think it is possible as most AWD systems only kick in when wheel slippage is detected.

Maybe some of our truck techs here can answer this question.
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Old 05-26-2016, 10:07 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidrrand View Post
I think there may be some confusion between four wheel drive (4WD) and all wheel drive (AWD). All wheel drive vehicles like Subarus, Acuras, Hondas, BMWs, etc. are designed to operate on dry pavement. Traditional four wheel drive trucks are not designed to operate in four wheel drive on dry pavement.

I am not sure if all late model four wheel drive trucks that also have an AWD mode should operate on dry pavement and I have one (F-150 Lariat). I think it is possible as most AWD systems only kick in when wheel slippage is detected.

Maybe some of our truck techs here can answer this question.
Yes, you are correct...but there is no confusion. The discussion surrounds "true" or conventional 4WD. And yes many trucks ans suvs, including the OPs description have a 4WD setting and an Auto setting. But AWD, as defined in the industry, is engaged all the time and provides for a "clutch" mechanism in the transfer case. "Auto" provides 2WD until the system detects slip and then engages the transfer case, but the front axle is always engaged in "auto" setting.
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Old 05-26-2016, 10:32 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Ok, if you say so. Guess my formal education, OTJ training and experience has taught me nothing. Here's what the manufacturer (my employer) has to say about it:

Drive Systems
Four-Wheel Drive
If equipped, four-wheel drive
engages the front axle for extra
traction. Read the appropriate
section for transfer case operation
before using.
{Caution
Driving on clean, dry pavement in
four-wheel drive for an extended
period of time may cause
premature wear on the system.
The damage would not be
covered by the vehicle warranty.
Driving on clean, dry pavement in
four-wheel drive may:
. Cause a vibration to be felt in
the steering system.
. Cause tires to wear faster.
. Make the transfer case harder to
shift, and cause it to run noisier.

But I am not sure what the big deal is anyway, I have NEVER had the rear tires want to slide on dry pavement while using lower gears on severe hills in all my years of towing...and yes, many times on 7 - 8% grades.
The big deal is that while descending, with all for wheels engaged in full time four wheel high, all four TV tires are aiding in holding the TV back without having to hit the brakes as often. It is simply safer. I use it whenever I am on up or down mountainous and curve terrain otherwise it is in 2 wheel at all times.
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Old 05-26-2016, 11:12 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
And yes many trucks ans suvs, including the OPs description have a 4WD setting and an Auto setting.
To be clear on my vehicle, I do not have 4WD, but 2WD. I did have AWD, but that was on my Subaru Outback and that couldn't tow my last trailer, or the Airstream.
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