Got a Brand New 2017 F-150 Lariat SuperCrew Today

[jcl]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

To me the bottom line, I cannot tell why Ford gave this truck a payload rating of 1,660 lbs. It seems it could take a payload closer to 2,000 lbs if carefully loaded. I know this gray area is an issue of debate, but as long as the total combined weight rating is not exceeded, which is highly unlikely with an Airstream trailer, I just don't get it.

Not everyone loads carefully, so they have to go with the lowest common denominator. Also, axle ratings primarily consider vertical loads. GVWR considers horizontal loads, including accelerating and braking.

[kscherzi]

Originally Posted by AVS

Not sure if this is out of place or not to ask, but I'll ask anyway...

Is there any chance you could post a picture of the window sticker with the exact package and options you got? It would be really nice to know what exact combination got you to your payload number.

It's so difficult to try and predict the payload and there are way too many varied weights that are posted for different options.

A real world actual set up would be refreshing.

Looking to get a 2017 FB International Serenity in the coming months, and your truck set up is looking very attractive

Here you go! See the link. Payload is 1,660 lbs. I also plan to use this to tow a 27FB international serenity.
http://www.airforums.com/photos/show...mageuser=73350

[Troutboy]

Nice dog also!!

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by jcl

Not everyone loads carefully, so they have to go with the lowest common denominator. Also, axle ratings primarily consider vertical loads. GVWR considers horizontal loads, including accelerating and braking.

Good discussion guys, it's reasonable to question the payload number/GVWR. Towing a properly hitched Airstream, it make little sense.

We know the payload/GVWR is much lower than axle ratings. I doubt it is because of horizontal loads to the axles including accelerating and braking because our loaded Airstream adds 7,300 lbs horizontal load to the axles when we accelerate and brake. Our GCWR of 14,750 lbs does indicate our truck can handle it.

I think most people do not load carefully, or properly set up a w.d. hitch. We certainly didn't understand it when we started. Based on what I have seen and read, I now realize the importance of w.d. hitches.

When using a capable and properly set up w.d. hitch, we realize it is the axle ratings we need to watch and verify with a truck scale. When we tow a trailer and haul a load without a w.d. hitch, we realize the payload/GVWR may help us from overloading the rear axle.

The manufacturers give is one number for both conditions, but the number is of little consequence when hitching up with proper w.d.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by dkottum

We know the payload/GVWR is much lower than axle ratings. I doubt it is because of horizontal loads to the axles including accelerating and braking because our loaded Airstream adds 7,300 lbs horizontal load to the axles when we accelerate and brake. Our GCWR of 14,750 lbs does indicate our truck can handle it.

Actually, it is because of the horizontal loads to the vehicle, not the axles. The truck is designed for a certain maximum weight, given assumed operating conditions. Then, the axles are sized to carry more than they need to, because the load may not be located in one spot. The GVWR considers dynamic loads. The GVWR discussion comes before the towing considerations. Many owners will never tow.

I understand that you are within the GCWR. That suggests you are within reasonable margins. Other potential ways to achieve the same level of safety margin are to drive slower, or carry the load lower, or ascend a hill slower, or keep an eye on operating temperatures in high ambients, etc. It is impossible to design a vehicle and know all the use cases and maximums exactly, then design to just meet them all at the same time. It is illogical. One trades off one limit against another, in many cases. That is what the design engineers did.

This gets back to the singular focus many have on payload, while happily driving faster, not focusing sufficiently on setup, or any of a number of things that create more real risk than exceeding payload slightly. Particularly concerning when some purchase more payload than they need, which would be just fine, if they didn't then consider that additional payload as a trump card so that they didn't need to worry about the rest of it as much. That is where the risk is, IMO.

[Troutboy]

This might be a dumb question, but how is wheel weight a factor on the axle. I would think that since the wheels are on the ground, they do not impact the payload.

So, why do 20 inch wheels reduce payload versus 18?

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Troutboy

This might be a dumb question, but how is wheel weight a factor on the axle. I would think that since the wheels are on the ground, they do not impact the payload.

So, why do 20 inch wheels reduce payload versus 18?

Because payload is design maximum weight (GVWR) less curb weight. They are part of curb weight. They don't impact what the axles carry, but they impact acceleration, braking, etc. They have to be hauled up a steep hill in a high ambient, for example, and that may be a limit to the GVWR in the design process, hypothetically.

[Troutboy]

Thx jcl, that makes sense.....

[kscherzi]

What helped me was the discussion on the F150 forum regarding 20" vs 18" wheels. The overriding concensus was in favor of the 18" wheels for (1) comfort and (2) 4 wheel drive performance. The 20" wheels are thought to be more vulnerable to puncture to rocks and debris with their short sidewalls. Plus the 20's are heavier overall leading to more unsprung weight which is better avoided. I think my 18" wheels look just fine (of course I'm biased).

[kscherzi]

Don't forget, the outside diameter of the 20" and 18" wheels are the same. Just the 20" wheels has more metal in the middle.

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by jcl

Actually, it is because of the horizontal loads to the vehicle, not the axles. The truck is designed for a certain maximum weight, given assumed operating conditions. Then, the axles are sized to carry more than they need to, because the load may not be located in one spot. The GVWR considers dynamic loads.

Does payload/GVWR really consider dynamic loads well when we place 1,000 lbs of hitch weight on the receiver of a truck with 1,000 lbs payload? Many do and they have not exceeded payload, but the front axle of the truck will be too light for decent handling and braking.

If we did the same thing, then distributed the load among our truck and trailer axles with our w.d. hitch we would have a truck that handled and braked very nicely. And the load on the truck would decrease by the 200 lbs we distributed to our trailer axles.

I certainly see your point, but in actual use towing our Airstreams it appears much safer to use axle load ratings rather than payload/GVWR when we use the w.d. hitch properly, and confirm the combo setup with a CAT scale. Perhaps it's best to say payload/GVWR is of little consequence if we (actually) know what we are doing.

[Troutboy]

How do you find the gross axel weight rating for a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee summit? I have looked everywhere, and can't find it. In manuals, on door stickers, on Jeep forums, and was at dealer today and they couldn't even find it. Any ideas ?

[rbaldwin]

Sir, for your Platinum, what is your payload (not to exceed) weight on your door?

[jcl]

Originally Posted by dkottum

Does payload/GVWR really consider dynamic loads well when we place 1,000 lbs of hitch weight on the receiver of a truck with 1,000 lbs payload? Many do and they have not exceeded payload, but the front axle of the truck will be too light for decent handling and braking.

If we did the same thing, then distributed the load among our truck and trailer axles with our w.d. hitch we would have a truck that handled and braked very nicely. And the load on the truck would decrease by the 200 lbs we distributed to our trailer axles.

I certainly see your point, but in actual use towing our Airstreams it appears much safer to use axle load ratings rather than payload/GVWR when we use the w.d. hitch properly, and confirm the combo setup with a CAT scale. Perhaps it's best to say payload/GVWR is of little consequence if we (actually) know what we are doing.

If you put 1000 lbs of payload on the receiver, and are within the GVWR, that doesn't mean you are still within the axle ratings. Both matter. Anything one does to distribute the load (ie carry the payload towards the centre of the wheelbase) will help. And the payload rating is there partly because many won't ever check. It is that lowest common denominator thing. The manufacturer is putting a payload rating in place to protect the greatest number of their customers, the vast majority of whom won't weight axles.

If you put 200 lbs back to the trailer, then you have an 800 lb load in that example, not a 1000 lb load.

I think GVWR has some relevance. But I agree with your last sentence. And the problem with focusing on it so much is that it takes attention away from other things that need to be focused on.

Jeff

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Troutboy

How do you find the gross axel weight rating for a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee summit? I have looked everywhere, and can't find it. In manuals, on door stickers, on Jeep forums, and was at dealer today and they couldn't even find it. Any ideas ?

On the FMVSS sticker on the driver's door or door jamb. You are looking for GAWR (front) and GAWR (rear). If it isn't there, perhaps there was body repair done on the vehicle?

[jayseejay]

Originally Posted by rbaldwin

Sir, for your Platinum, what is your payload (not to exceed) weight on your door?

Hi. If this question is for me, the answer is 1515 pounds. Best, Joe

[phil1ben]

I have a 2007 white Lariat Supercrew that now has 142,000 miles. I also special ordered it because I wanted a bench seat (to seat three upfront) with the shifter on the column and no center console. I am told that there is only a handful ordered that way. Has been a great family truck and now I still plan on using it to tow a Int'l Sig 25FB we plan on buying new in May. Just put new LT tires and shocks on so I hope she has three more years left. Enjoy your new truck and I hope it is as trustworthy as ours has been.

[Troutboy]

JCL, thanks again. Next time, I'll look myself. 17 year old daughter went and took a picture of the jamb, and only took the one on the frame, not the door. Got it now, and thanks!

[rodsterinfl]

The problem with using axle weight ratings instead of payload rating is that it is very difficult to shift the weight to a specific axle even when using a weight distributing hitch. I have experienced this with both the Curt WD hitch and the ProPride. They do distribute weight but it is not as proportionate as expected between the trailer and truck axles. The payload/cargo figure is really what to go by and, hitches do have two ratings- dead weight and WD weight rating. Neither one changes the payload rating and I cannot choose to add a particular weight say, just to the front. Ford suspension specs require that the after-calibrated hitch weight maintains the front suspension original height or higher. When I played with the hitches' settings at the CAT scale I learned quickly that I can distribute weight but not proportionately/equally or specifically. The CURT setup guide is excellent for setting up any WD hitch to a truck. Measure the before hitched heights of all four wheels centered to top of wheel well. Hitch up dead weight and measure again. Then the adjustment from/to begins. The goal is to adjust the weight to as close as possible to the original well height of the unhitched truck, if at all possible.

Wheels and payload. Wheels have a weight rating too and PSI rating for the tires. HD wheels are designed for higher weights. That is why Ford has a specific rim they use on their Max Payload models. It is identified in the wheel selection. The trucks like mine with the 18" have 200# more payload and that is not the max payload.

@kscherzi, I was not disputing that Ford now included the 36 gallon tank in the max tow package in 2017, just that people were discussing different model years like 2016 and I did not know offhand if they included it that year. I knew that in late 2015, they did not. They change the packages for sure. The added gas capacity probably does have something to do with your payload.

[rodsterinfl]

Once the sun started to come out is when the White Platinum Metallic paint came into its own. It has a very slight creamier color and, due to the triple coat, a deeper depth. Though it cost a little extra adds a nice touch.

Yes, and it also sometimes looks a different color. One time a sales guy at the wash station looked out and saw my truck parked and put silver. I said no it is white and he said, "that truck?" When I looked out the window it actually did look silver with the particular light angle.