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Old 03-11-2009, 04:17 PM   #15
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I suspect, and this is my personal, uninformed, and quite possibly wrong opinion, that diesel engines in passenger cars are kind of on the way out. ."
Actually gas burners are disappearing in Europe now that they have the super clean diesel technology.... invented there.... now here..... Can you say turbo diesel 700 series BMW rocketship. Enough torque to do a wheelie....

I am very attached to my Duramax, it's just different to drive...
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:23 PM   #16
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Actually gas burners are disappearing in Europe now that they have the super clean diesel technology.... invented there.... now here..... Can you say turbo diesel 700 series BMW rocketship. Enough torque to do a wheelie....

I am very attached to my Duramax, it's just different to drive...
Yes and no, I think. I understand that CO2 legislation in Europe has a short term positive effect on diesel sales. Longer term, say 2013-2015, it's less clear. At least to me.

Some of what happens here will depend on what we do with fuel taxes in the next several years. If we adopt the European approach and tax gasoline at a higher rate than diesel, that may also have an impact.

Crystal ball... getting murky ...
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:35 PM   #17
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Actually gas burners are disappearing in Europe now that they have the super clean diesel technology....
Europe is a different ball game, though. The decline in gasoline-powered cars isn't so much due to clean emissions technology as it is due to economics.

Fuel prices overall are much higher, making the higher consumption of gasoline engines painful. Also, taxation is often based on displacement. A turbodiesel lets you keep displacement low while offering locomotive-like torque.

Diesel popularity also depends on the segment. It's nearly universal in larger cars and SUVs there, but there are many petrol small-displacement small cars. Case in point: my British father-in-law has an Audi A4 TDI. It's a very nice car. But he's going back to gasoline with a new Golf, and my m-in-law has a Honda Jazz (Fit here.) Those cars are small enough to still have enough performance and fuel economy with small displacement.

I think you're right - if you want a diesel passenger car in the short term, it will probably be German. They're proud enough and stubborn enough to sell them here, even though they probably make very little money on a Jetta TDI. (BMW probably does OK, given the premium a 335d costs over the gasoline 3-Series.) Subaru is rumored to bring a diesel over with the next generation Legacy - we'll see....

As for GM postponing the small diesel: they need to survive the short-term to even get to the long-term. They killed off their performance vehicles division (makers of the CTS-V and Cobalt SS), basically to save head count and redistribute engineering staff. They delayed introducing the Cruze small car here, despite desperately needing a better small car. (Ford has also delayed nice-but-not-necessary programs, including bringing the Transit van here from Europe.) So delaying the diesel is no surprise, especially with the fall off in truck sales.

Tom
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:42 PM   #18
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If we adopt the European approach and tax gasoline at a higher rate than diesel, that may also have an impact.
Crystal ball... getting murky ...
Could it be that the European approach to taxing is intended to reduce the demand for the less efficient fuel, gas, and promote the use of the more efficient fuel, diesel.

Than again Europe is way ahead of us in many areas. Solar, wind, and tidal electrical generation and auto emissions. Why shouldn't they lead us in Governmental leadership. We are content to keep tell ourselves we are the world leader while the world leaves us behind. We now have 3G phones. The rest of the world has had them for years.
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:53 PM   #19
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In 2007, the GDP of the U.S. was about $13.8 trillion. I think 2008 we hit around $14.2 trillion. This is less than the entire European Union, but not by much.
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Old 03-11-2009, 05:10 PM   #20
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In 2007, the GDP of the U.S. was about $13.8 trillion. I think 2008 we hit around $14.2 trillion. This is less than the entire European Union, but not by much.
Let's be fair here. If we lumped all of North America, it would be the same as lumping the EU. It may be the EU, but it is several different countries. Comparing the EU to the US or any other single nation, regardless of size, IMHO, isn't an apples to apples comparison. I mean it's like saying, Mercedes, VW, Volvo, Bently, Jaguar, etc, sell more cars total than Ford (which may be true, but you get my drift).
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:20 PM   #21
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Angry

Kind'a been look'n at this for awhile now, our Store would be closed if it wasn't for the Service Dept.
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Old 03-11-2009, 09:09 PM   #22
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Bob
I have a friend in Illinois that also say's "if it wasn't for Parts and Service" the upfront gang would be on the outside lookin in.
Lord,I hope Dura- Max stays in business,I have a friend that works there and they are down to basics,only one shift and Minimal Maintenance crew . If Dura-Max closes here we will have a ghost town Because all GM and Delphi plants and those related business are now CLOSED.
Although I'm a Ford person I like that Dura-Max engine.
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Old 03-13-2009, 06:32 PM   #23
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Bob
I have a friend in Illinois that also say's "if it wasn't for Parts and Service" the upfront gang would be on the outside lookin in.
Lord,I hope Dura- Max stays in business,I have a friend that works there and they are down to basics,only one shift and Minimal Maintenance crew . If Dura-Max closes here we will have a ghost town Because all GM and Delphi plants and those related business are now CLOSED.
Although I'm a Ford person I like that Dura-Max engine.
After retiring 2yrs ago I went back p/t at Chevy store, laid off New Years, claaed back last week. Service is busy!!

A small step
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Old 03-13-2009, 06:45 PM   #24
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Seems to me, GM needs to do something to recapture their market share. I don't need a Duramax 6.6 which can haul 16,000 lbs, but I sure could use a 4.5 Duramax/Sierra. That's about the only engine/truck combo which would ever get me to not buy a Toyota Tundra again when the time presents itself. I'm thinking the people in charge don't realize how many of us would make the switch!
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:00 PM   #25
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Was look'n forward to the Dura-Burb
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Old 03-15-2009, 09:22 PM   #26
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Was look'n forward to the Dura-Burb
Sometimes wanting is better than having I suppose, yet I too still want a Dura-Burb and a factory built one at that.

Of course Burgess Meredith said it best in one of those grumpy old men movies.....

"You can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets filled first."
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Old 03-16-2009, 07:02 AM   #27
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Was look'n forward to the Dura-Burb
Yes that will be awesome...WHEN it happens...
I still say the Burb is the best all around Family vehicle available. A deezul will make them all that much better.

Bill
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