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04-26-2018, 01:08 AM
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#1
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Rivet Master
2007 27' International CCD FB
San Diego
, California
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,115
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Gas vs. Diesel - New 2018 F150
We've had a lot of gas vs diesels discussions. A new case study to this, is the introduction of the diesel F150 in the 2018 model.
It'll be another interesting comparison as specs and performance impressions make their way into the media. Both variants also use the same 10-speed tranny. How appropriate, they have an Airstream in tow
Power numbers:
F150 Diesel - 3.0L Powerstroke V6: 250hp @3250rpm, 440tq @1750.
F150 Gas - 3.5L Ecoboost V6: 375hp @5000rpm, 470tq @3500.
MPG 4x4 ratings:
Diesel - 20 / 25 / 22 combined. 26 gallon tank
Gas - 17 / 22 / 19 combined. Option 36 gallon tank
Capacities:
Diesel max tow - 11,400lbs
Gas max tow - 13,200lbs
Diesel XL max payload: 2020 lbs
Diesel King Ranch 4x4 max payload: 1378 lbs
Gas V8 XL max payload: 3270 lbs
Gas Ecoboost Platinum 4x4: 2030 lbs
No driving impressions yet from the media as that'll come out in a few days.
At a glance, it's obvious the gassers outclass the diesel in sheer capacities and power. Both power and torque in case of the ecoboost.
The diesel is postured as the efficiency option. If power and capacities are priorities, the gasser varients are going to be the ticket. Hopefully the diesel delivers on the towing experience for those that want it, because yet again, the diesel is not the one that will be winning races to the top of the hill. No mention of a diesel brake option yet.
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04-26-2018, 02:09 AM
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#2
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Moderator
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Alamo Heights
, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,493
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I'm going to have to see the door-pillar tag at 2030 lb for an Ecoboost Platinum before I believe 2030 lb payload. I don't think they make SuperCab+Platinum do they? On my '17 SuperCrew 4WD Lariat with no sunroof or heavy massaging seats (but with box-side steps) my placard payload is 1636 lb.
__________________
— David
Zero Gravitas — 2017 Flying Cloud 26U | WBCCI# 15566
He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. — Sir Winston Churchill
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04-26-2018, 02:34 AM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2018 27' International
Southeastern MI
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteck
We've had a lot of gas vs diesels discussions. A new case study to this, is the introduction of the diesel F150 in the 2018 model.
It'll be another interesting comparison as specs and performance impressions make their way into the media. Both variants also use the same 10-speed tranny. How appropriate, they have an Airstream in tow
Attachment 309537
Power numbers:
F150 Diesel - 3.0L Powerstroke V6: 250hp @3250rpm, 440tq @1750.
F150 Gas - 3.5L Ecoboost V6: 375hp @5000rpm, 470tq @3500.
MPG 4x4 ratings:
Diesel - 20 / 25 / 22 combined. 26 gallon tank
Gas - 17 / 22 / 19 combined. Option 36 gallon tank
Capacities:
Diesel max tow - 11,400lbs
Gas max tow - 13,200lbs
Diesel XL max payload: 2020 lbs
Diesel King Ranch 4x4 max payload: 1378 lbs
Gas V8 XL max payload: 3270 lbs
Gas Ecoboost Platinum 4x4: 2030 lbs
No driving impressions yet from the media as that'll come out in a few days.
At a glance, it's obvious the gassers outclass the diesel in sheer capacities and power. Both power and torque in case of the ecoboost.
The diesel is postured as the efficiency option. If power and capacities are priorities, the gasser varients are going to be the ticket. Hopefully the diesel delivers on the towing experience for those that want it, because yet again, the diesel is not the one that will be winning races to the top of the hill. No mention of a diesel brake option yet.
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It will sell well anyway, to people who want a Diesel engine.
__________________
2018 International Serenity 27' FB
Michelin 16” tires
Hensley Arrow hitch
Tow Vehicle: 2020 F-350 6.7L Diesel
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04-26-2018, 04:20 AM
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#4
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3 Rivet Member
2017 30' Flying Cloud
Pleasant City
, Ohio
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 133
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I would have expected better fuel mileage from the diesel.
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04-26-2018, 05:01 AM
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#5
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4 Rivet Member
Byron Center
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 275
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Ford has clearly taken the economy route with the F150 diesel. It’ll be interesting to see if Chevy’s 1500 takes the same route. Their 3-liter in-line six hasn’t reported HP/torque figures yet (unless someone else has seen them).
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04-26-2018, 06:12 AM
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#6
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Rivet Master
2014 27' FB Eddie Bauer
Chelsea
, Michigan
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,792
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Given the origin of the engine (a European delivery van) I would be surprised if it did have an available engine brake. Without this feature, and given the other drawbacks (up front cost premium and reduced capabilities as a tow vehicle) I would suspect that the diesel F-150 would be a poor choice over the 3.5 litre Ecoboost version as a tow vehicle for most Airstream owners.
__________________
Bob Martel
WBCCI# 5766
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04-26-2018, 08:02 AM
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#7
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Moderator
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Alamo Heights
, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCCO
I would have expected better fuel mileage from the diesel.
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The diesel numbers quoted here are apparently for the 4WD version. If you buy 4WD it's not available with the 3.31 differential ratio that the 2WD has by default, which returns 30 MPG on the EPA Highway cycle.
__________________
— David
Zero Gravitas — 2017 Flying Cloud 26U | WBCCI# 15566
He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. — Sir Winston Churchill
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04-26-2018, 08:10 AM
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#8
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Moderator
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Alamo Heights
, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnArborBob
Given the origin of the engine (a European delivery van) I would be surprised if it did have an available engine brake. Without this feature, and given the other drawbacks (up front cost premium and reduced capabilities as a tow vehicle) I would suspect that the diesel F-150 would be a poor choice over the 3.5 litre Ecoboost version as a tow vehicle for most Airstream owners.
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The 3.0 Powerstroke V6 was developed for Land Rover, actually. The "delivery van" Transit's diesel is a 3.2-liter 5-cylinder that's lower output. Neither of them has an exhaust brake that I know of.
__________________
— David
Zero Gravitas — 2017 Flying Cloud 26U | WBCCI# 15566
He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. — Sir Winston Churchill
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04-26-2018, 09:16 AM
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#9
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3 Rivet Member
2017 30' Classic
Lexington
, Kentucky
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 105
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Note that the diesel makes max torque at 1750 RPM. I like the fact that my engine is not screaming while climbing a hill.
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04-26-2018, 09:22 AM
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#10
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Rivet Master
2013 31' Classic
billings
, Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,570
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A light duty, one step above a car....
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04-26-2018, 09:38 AM
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#11
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Stay CazuaL
2018 25' Flying Cloud
2014 19' Flying Cloud
Reseda
, California
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 958
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Getting the gas in three weeks or less.
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04-26-2018, 10:02 AM
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#12
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Rivet Master
1986 25' Sovereign
2008 F350, 6.4L diesel
, Oak Harbor, WA
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 605
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There is also a term called duty cycle. Which is how long an power system can deliver rated power. They may not be the same. The power plants and transmissions have always had this reality as a factor when towing.
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04-26-2018, 10:06 AM
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#13
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1 Rivet Member
2016 25' Flying Cloud
Richmond Hill
, Georgia
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlanford
Note that the diesel makes max torque at 1750 RPM. I like the fact that my engine is not screaming while climbing a hill.
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I have a 2016 FC 25 which I tow with my 2016 Ford 150XL eco boost 3.5. In the past twenty months I have pulled my Airstream up the Kenosha Pass 2 x westbound, Monarch Pass 2 x west bound and 2 x eastbound, Wolf Creek Pass 1 x westbound and the infamous Durango to Ouray US Route 550 1 x north bound. The eco boost engine has never screamed while climbing any of these Colorado passes. And by the way, descending was no problem either.
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04-26-2018, 10:06 AM
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#14
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Rivet Master
2007 27' International CCD FB
San Diego
, California
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,115
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Somewhat premature, but I gather this will be another diesel power plant that's not the game changer everyone wants it to be.
This has played out similar for the Nissan Titan XD, Dodge Ecodiesel vs. Hemi, Chevy Colorado, etc., and now Ford.
Diesel is the choice for a specific niche of use cases, but in general is more romantic in one’s mind. That being economy, range, and high load drivability. For a jobber or one that really piles on the miles toting loads, it does play to its strengths and adds up to real savings. But it comes at cost, literal cost up front, likely more maintenance costs, and most importantly, significant tradeoff of other qualities. Namely performance, agility, and capacity. In this case, also range as the gas version has a larger tank option? We’ll see if Ford allows for an extended tank option for the diesel. It would be odd that it doesn’t, as one of diesels primary advantages is usually range.
Diesels fundamentally has some achilles heels that make it play out this way: weight and emissions. On a ½ ton platform, diesel engines (and hence their output) are bound by these two realities. ¾ and 1 ton platforms take the reins off and make these Achilles heels much less an issue, which is why diesels shine there. But gas has come a long way and is also formidable in that space for many users.
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04-26-2018, 10:20 AM
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#15
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3 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
belen
, New Mexico
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 191
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FORD is notorious for experimenting on the public at large IE 6.0 disaster when the 7.3 was PERFECT! that 6.7 is sweet and I would NEVER buy anything new without a real time track record. I traded my cummins for a ford V-10 and I'm totally in love
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04-26-2018, 11:19 AM
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#16
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1 Rivet Member
Flower
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 11
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Gas v. Diesel
I just picked up my fully loaded F-150 King Ranch last night and love it. 3.5 eco boost 12,700 tow rating with max tow package. Per door sticker max payload 1,578. Lariat loaded was 1458 limited 1158. All super crew short bed 4x4.
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04-26-2018, 01:07 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
2017 28' International
Jim Falls
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,294
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I really don't know why someone would by the F150 diesel and not the 3.5 ecoboost. If I were going to get a diesel I would get the F250. I have an F150 with the ecoboost and I pull my 28' easily. But F250 will be my next pickup since I won't use it as a daily driver as much when I'm retired and will need the payload. But I will get a used one. I can get a used 2 year old F250 XLT diesel for about 45,000 (50,000 miles) with a super crew cab. At 50,000 miles there's a lot left in that engine.
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04-26-2018, 04:44 PM
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#18
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4 Rivet Member
1972 31' Excella 500
2017 30' Classic
Grapeview
, Washington
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteck
Somewhat premature, but I gather this will be another diesel power plant that's not the game changer everyone wants it to be.
This has played out similar for the Nissan Titan XD, Dodge Ecodiesel vs. Hemi, Chevy Colorado, etc., and now Ford.
Diesel is the choice for a specific niche of use cases, but in general is more romantic in one’s mind. That being economy, range, and high load drivability. For a jobber or one that really piles on the miles toting loads, it does play to its strengths and adds up to real savings. But it comes at cost, literal cost up front, likely more maintenance costs, and most importantly, significant tradeoff of other qualities. Namely performance, agility, and capacity. In this case, also range as the gas version has a larger tank option? We’ll see if Ford allows for an extended tank option for the diesel. It would be odd that it doesn’t, as one of diesels primary advantages is usually range.
Diesels fundamentally has some achilles heels that make it play out this way: weight and emissions. On a ½ ton platform, diesel engines (and hence their output) are bound by these two realities. ¾ and 1 ton platforms take the reins off and make these Achilles heels much less an issue, which is why diesels shine there. But gas has come a long way and is also formidable in that space for many users.
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Not to offend, however your statements are w/o educated merit and are of a closed mind.
Light weight trucks using medium duty Diesel engines will play to a selective group. Same is true of gas engines. Are either a game changer? What change are you referring to?
From my perspective the game changer started w/the 2006 R10 Audi TDI running Le Mans. Kicked the crap out of ever gasser between 06 thru 14. Peugeot TDI won 09. Yes another Diesel.
People will continue to argue what engine type, MFG. type, and tonnage size. I say have it. However if you are not a person who has experienced both sides of the fence. Your opinion falls on deaf ears. You are talking to a group that likes their trucks. Have you ever own a truck, I mean a real truck?
I have been on both sides for 40+ years of towing. I can say I have never towed w/a SUV, oh wait I stand corrected, did have a 3/4 Suburban w/454 big block. When the kids grew up and moved out we sold it.
I understand your personal choice for your TV, I say good for you and enjoy. We enjoy ours ever day and w/the full comfort along w/the "Big" safety features in this made world of bone head drivers.
Best regards and safe travels..........
__________________
Scott & Liz
2017 Classic
2016 RAM 3500 6.7
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04-26-2018, 05:41 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
2007 27' International CCD FB
San Diego
, California
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,115
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No offense at all. If you want to peg me for uneducated and closed minded to justify your position, be my guest. Never mind that my professional world is all about executing analysis, design, and implementation through due diligence, modeling, trade studies, etc., to come up with the right choices to make things work. Billion dollar things. But maybe I should tell my customers that we have to drive it first?
What does your 40+ years of towing experience tell me? That you are taking your anecdotal historical experiences and applying it to your skewed perspective of the modern world. Your ¾ Suburban was awesome in its time. So was the 454. But its well under 300hp output doesn’t hold a candle to modern engines that have much higher and broader output curves.
You might not believe it, but OEMs spends millions doing analysis on what they bring to market. Many have diesel variants for foreign markets, that never come to the US. It’s generally the very reasons of power output and emissions that don’t hit the mark. They know Americans like power (HP) for our vast freeway systems. Range is not usually an issue with our extensive fueling infrastructure. And we have stringent emissions requirements that would further choke diesel output and performance (DEF cost and complexity).
Sure seems like a lot of F150 gas truck owners are here who are more than satisfied? But you’ll keep talking, without giving us a compelling objective attribute? That’s not “get the F250/350 diesel”, at how much more cost? BTW, cost was not the issue for me, as I choose my TV, despite it being more than any F250/350 diesel.
Diesel has been around for a long time, and is crutching along with band-aid solutions to its nature. The game changer is gas, with renewed efficiency, torque, and power, such that it is squeezing further, the niche that diesels once had. And we all know hybrids and electrics are on the horizon with clean sheet solutions to ICE powertrains.
Yeah, so I don’t own a diesel, but I sure do relish and enjoy torque. Do you own an EV?
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04-26-2018, 06:19 PM
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#20
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Rivet Master
2018 27' International
Southeastern MI
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlanford
Note that the diesel makes max torque at 1750 RPM. I like the fact that my engine is not screaming while climbing a hill.
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That’s good, because with 250 hp vs 375 for the gas engine there won’t be anyone in front of you. Nice truck for commuting though.
__________________
2018 International Serenity 27' FB
Michelin 16” tires
Hensley Arrow hitch
Tow Vehicle: 2020 F-350 6.7L Diesel
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