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Old 09-06-2006, 02:08 PM   #141
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Diesel All the way

I purchased a 2006 VW Jetta TDI (diesel) and get 40 MPH around town and 50+ on the highway. I then traded my 1/2 ton gas truck for 3/4 ton diesel with alison 6 speed and went from 14 mph around town (gas) to 19 mph (diesel) and 17.5 highway (gas) to 22.5 (diesel). For me, I may pay more for diesel at times, but it more than makes up for the difference in the long run. More torque and pulling power.
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Old 09-06-2006, 02:09 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
I feel no shame, "If you got it, flaunt it!" Besides, we're only talking 5 MPH over the speed limit.
Please put flashing light on your rig so I don't get you confused with someone speeding.

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Old 09-06-2006, 02:11 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by tsunami
I purchased a 2006 VW Jetta TDI (diesel) and get 40 MPH around town and 50+ on the highway. I then traded my 1/2 ton gas truck for 3/4 ton diesel with alison 6 speed and went from 14 mph around town (gas) to 19 mph (diesel) and 17.5 highway (gas) to 22.5 (diesel). For me, I may pay more for diesel at times, but it more than makes up for the difference in the long run. More torque and pulling power.
Which truck did you purchase ?

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Old 09-06-2006, 09:27 PM   #144
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Hi, Bill Tex. That was some responce and I don't disagree with any of that. But I didn't see the part about a Diesel haveing less moving parts. Take your time; you must be winded after all that.

Moving parts: Gas and Diesel
crankshaft, camshaft, pistons, connecting rods, timeing chain and sprockets or gears, lifters, push rods, rocker arms, valve springs, valves, oil pumps, mechanical fuel pumps, oil pressure regulator, and throttle body. [air intake]
I purposely did not count distributor [most gas engines don't use these anymore] or counter balance it with injector pump. If I missed something let me know; I'm a little rusty right now. But I think the count is vertually even!
And once again I will second Frank S. If and when the usefullness of my six year old, 40,000 mile Navigator is up I will buy something newer.

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Old 09-06-2006, 09:45 PM   #145
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Speed Limit

Hi, Minnie's Mate, You said 75 MPH is only 5 MPH over the limit. For me, I read that two different ways. In California trailer towing speed limit is 55 MPH. So that would be 20 MPH over the speed limit. But I more closely follow the trailer tire speed rateing set at 65 MPH. And in that case it would be only 10 MPH over the limit. For that reason I try to not go faster than 65 MPH and keep a close watch in my mirror. [Cops]

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Old 09-07-2006, 12:26 AM   #146
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These diesel vs gas are giving me a brain cloud-diesels are still very costly get minimal better mpg 11 gas vs 16 diesel plus you nearly always have to have a truck rather than a smoother driving vehicle. Hey I might like it. I test drove the duramax with allison,it still does not compare to a suburban type vehicle for comfort. Darrell
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Old 09-07-2006, 01:41 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, Minnie's Mate, You said 75 MPH is only 5 MPH over the limit. For me, I read that two different ways. In California trailer towing speed limit is 55 MPH. So that would be 20 MPH over the speed limit. But I more closely follow the trailer tire speed rateing set at 65 MPH. And in that case it would be only 10 MPH over the limit. For that reason I try to not go faster than 65 MPH and keep a close watch in my mirror. [Cops]

Bob
Iwas in Arizona where the speed limit is 75mph for all vehicles. I had a lot of thoughts about my Marathons as I went 63mph.
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Old 09-07-2006, 07:05 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, Bill Tex. That was some responce and I don't disagree with any of that. But I didn't see the part about a Diesel haveing less moving parts. Take your time; you must be winded after all that.

Moving parts: Gas and Diesel
crankshaft, camshaft, pistons, connecting rods, timeing chain and sprockets or gears, lifters, push rods, rocker arms, valve springs, valves, oil pumps, mechanical fuel pumps, oil pressure regulator, and throttle body. [air intake]
I purposely did not count distributor [most gas engines don't use these anymore] or counter balance it with injector pump. If I missed something let me know; I'm a little rusty right now. But I think the count is vertually even!
And once again I will second Frank S. If and when the usefullness of my six year old, 40,000 mile Navigator is up I will buy something newer.

Bob
America, the throw away/consumer society! I have always considered autos the worts investment one can make. The best way to maximize your investment in a car/truck is to amortize over a long period of time. I try to keep all my vehicles for 10 years. I always buy GM, and have had everyone of them go well beyond 100k miles. I moved up to a 3/4 ton diesel for towing after getting our latest camper and experiencing what it is like to be pushed around in a 1/2 ton truck. No fun. Untill you have experienced this it is hard to accept. Had a 1/2 ton, now have a 3/4 ton. I know what I will be towing with from now on.

A diesel engine has less parts because the fuel is ignited by compression and not spark plugs.Choosing between a gas and diesel engine really comes down to what you'll do with the truck and where you live. If you use your truck like a car, desire quick, quiet acceleration, rarely haul a heavy load and you don't plan on keeping it past 100,000 miles, then you want a gas engine. They run smoother, fuel is easier to find and they're easier to start in cold weather. However, if you use your truck for towing, value good fuel economy, and plan on racking up loads of miles, then a diesel is for you. In the end, the leading disappointment regarding diesels is that the price to add a diesel to a 3/4- or 1-ton pickup is still quite high versus a more powerful gas engine. But, you'll make this back in fuel savings over time. Now we need diesels in 1/2-ton pickups and midsize SUVs.
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Old 09-07-2006, 08:46 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by BillTex
A diesel engine has less parts because the fuel is ignited by compression and not spark plugs..
Bill, saying a Diesel has less parts than a gas engine because it doesn’t have spark plug is a very simplistic and just not factual. Which Diesel are you talking about which gas engine are speaking of. A Diesel has an injector pump and a injector in the cylinder. I have a gas powered truck and Diesel Powered boat. I would rather replace a spark plug any day than an injector on the boat. The cost of the injector is expensive and the amount of work to do it correctly is much more. Diesels are harder to work on and will cost you more. Over the years I rebuilt several engines and as far as I concerned they all have to many parts.

I have a gas truck at this time and when I buy again I will more than likely buy a Ford F-250 PSD. But you can also get a Super Duty gasser. I will go with the F-250 for many of the reasons you stated. If your 25’ trailer pushed around your ½ ton truck I would have to think you had other problems than it being gas or diesel. I do agree that the heaver ¾ ton truck is safer.

Bill you are lucky man as you have some of the best and highest quality equipment for towing and I feel safe sharing the road with you.

BTW speeding is speeding no matter what you chose to call it and it endangers everyone else on the road.

Jim
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Old 09-07-2006, 08:47 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, Minnie's Mate, You said 75 MPH is only 5 MPH over the limit. For me, I read that two different ways. In California trailer towing speed limit is 55 MPH. So that would be 20 MPH over the speed limit. But I more closely follow the trailer tire speed rateing set at 65 MPH. And in that case it would be only 10 MPH over the limit. For that reason I try to not go faster than 65 MPH and keep a close watch in my mirror. [Cops]

Bob
Well Bob, I live on the East Coast and I will keep that in mind if/when I ever go to California. I will also keep that in mind if/when I ever go to Texas, I believe I read their speed limit for towing is 55 MPH also. But in the states where I have traveled, it is 70 on the interstate: same as for the non-towing vehicles and hardly anybody sticks to 70. If you do, you have to stay in the truck lane or get run over. Most car traffic goes around 80 MPH and some go more.

You know, most of you gaser guys are reacting as if we diesel drivers are making personal attacks on your gas vehicles or on you personally for driving them. I don't think any of us who drive diesels mind if you drive gas jobs, but we have been "forced" into justifying our decisions to go diesel. That is so often the case when someone goes outside the mainstream.

I used to think I would never drive a diesel for the same reasons Bob and others have critisized us for driving them. Also, I suffer migraines terribly and diesel exhaust is one of the triggers that sets them off. But when we decided to get an Airstream it was also time for me to replace my F-150 that I had had for 10 years. Up until that point I had planned to purchase a Lexus RX-400h but the decision to buy a travel trailer nixed that idea. Talk about doing a 180. Anyway, I drove with my A/C on recirculate 365 days a year in all my vehicles to prevent exposure to pollen and diesel fumes in traffic to prevent migraines. I do the same with my F-250 now. Yes the ride is harder, but it would have been just as hard with a V-10 F-250. It is a little louder, but there really is a lot of good sound insulation in the cab and the extra "soft" surfaces of the crew cab helps there, too.

There is certainly nothing wrong with a Navigator as a tow vehicle if it is up to the job. According to the manufacturer's specs it, and the F-150, would tow my 30' Safari, but I wanted to make sure I had the extra torque and more importantly, I wanted the extra durability, larger brakes, heavier suspension, and ability to haul items in the bed while towing. BTW, this week end, I towed my Airstream and had a 1,000# golf cart in the bed of the truck and had no problems in the North Central Georgia mountains (Pine Mountain) with my F-250.

BTW, when towing at interstate speed, I always stop at regular intervals and check the temp of the tires on the Airstream and they have never been more than warm to the touch. The trailer and tires are new and currently have less than 2,500 miles on them. I will probably replace them at 8,000-9,000 miles if I continue to tow in the pattern I have been this summer.
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Old 09-07-2006, 08:48 AM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillTex
the price to add a diesel to a 3/4- or 1-ton pickup is still quite high versus a more powerful gas engine
Except in this day the diesels have more power! I'm not talking about horsepower, I'm talking TORQUE, huge amounts of usable torque at a usable RPM level.
Sure, the new Ford V10 will outrun my 6.0 in an empty dragrace. But I didn't buy my truck to dragrace and with a heavy load my diesel will outpull a V10 EVERYTIME!
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Old 09-07-2006, 08:48 AM   #152
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A 2006 Chevy Silverado HD2500, Extended cab, short bed, Duramax/Allison, 4X4. Impressed with the drive train.
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Old 09-07-2006, 08:55 AM   #153
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BTW speeding is speeding no matter what you chose to call it and it endangers everyone else on the road
I feel so much safer with perfect people on the road.
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Old 09-07-2006, 09:10 AM   #154
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I feel so much safer with perfect people on the road.

Glad to have provided some peace for you.

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Old 09-07-2006, 09:13 AM   #155
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A 2006 Chevy Silverado HD2500, Extended cab, short bed, Duramax/Allison, 4X4. Impressed with the drive train.
I had a friend who also is a x truck driver recommend that setup. I haven't test drove the Chevy yet. I like Fords but I am open to other brands if I feel they are better so I will drive on soon.

Thanks Jim
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Old 09-07-2006, 09:33 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
BTW, when towing at interstate speed, I always stop at regular intervals and check the temp of the tires on the Airstream and they have never been more than warm to the touch. The trailer and tires are new and currently have less than 2,500 miles on them. I will probably replace them at 8,000-9,000 miles if I continue to tow in the pattern I have been this summer.
Here is a tip about checking your tire temperature, I have Smartire sensors installed on my truck and had them on my previous trailer and they worked ok. What I do with the new trailer is use an infrared remote reading thermometer. The one I have is incorporated into a multimeter I happened to use on radio gear. I point the red dot at the tire and get the temperature. You can move the dot to different locations on the tire and you keep your hands clean. Bonus you can read temp of the engine components or the temperature of the slice of Pizza you are heating under the hood.

Mr. Perfect Jim
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Old 09-07-2006, 08:51 PM   #157
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Hi, I will stick with gas. My Navigator with 300 HP and 375 lbs torque at a very low 2700 RPM does very well towing my 25 ft Airstream. I have always said that "If I ever buy a Diesel, it will be in a real truck. [ Mac, Peterbuilt, Freightliner, Autocar, White, Kenworth Etc. ] This is my opinion. All gas stations have gas and some have Diesel. Where I live Diesel fuel costs more than the premium required for my Navigator. I don't want black stains on the front of my trailer. I don't like the stink, knocking noise, turbo whine, and the drivability of a extreamly front heavy Diesel pick-up. Drive a gas pick-up, then drive a Diesel pick-up and tell me you can't feel the difference. Unhooked I'm sure my Navigator rides much nicer than your Diesel does. And Gas or Diesel I don't want any vehicle with 300,000 miles on the clock; Yes it still runs, but the seats are caveing in, the dash is cracking, the bushings are squeesing out, the doors feel like they are about to fall off, and the water base paint is peeling. After all that misery, I can brag that my vehicle made 3 million miles. Big deal, and yes I finally broke even on the Diesel option versus fuel costs.
All that plus what Frank S said. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

Bob [opinionated, but truthful]
I did drive a gas Silverado pickup and then a Duramax diesel. I don't know what diesels you have driven but the Duramax I drive dosen't create black stains on the front of my trailer, stink, produce knocking noises, or drive extremely front heavy. It does have turbo whine, but I like the sound.

The Duramax puts out 650 lb-ft @ 1600 rpm which is nearly 75% more than the 375 lb-ft @ 2700 rpm of your Navigator. The torque curve is nearly flat from 1600 rpm out to the maximum rpm of the engine. I probably don't need all that torque, but I like being able to quickly accelerate to highway speed, pull up mountain roads without straining the engine, and cruising at 60 mph with engine rpm at less than 1600. I love that Diesel truck!
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Old 09-08-2006, 12:58 AM   #158
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Diesel versus Gas

Hi, Bill Tex. I pretty well think that we are even on the subject of moving parts in both kinds of engines; But where you lose me, is when you stated gas engines have spark plugs. Yes they do, but spark plugs don't move! " A Diesel has less [moving] parts because the fuel is ignited by compression and not spark plugs." Your original statement was Diesels have less moving parts?

Hi, Minnie's Mate. My Navigator is rated to tow up to 8,900 lbs. And my Safari has a GVWR 6,300 lbs. So I'm well into the safety zone. And it does the job well. On the other hand, Your set up works well for you. I wouldn't ever consider towing a 30' Safari with my tow vehicle. So you made the right choice for you.

Hi, hiker. I'm one of those people who can feel the difference in the driveability of my vehicles by load, amount of fuel in the tank, and addition of passengers. I work at a Ford dealer and drive vehicles every day, as shopforeman, and there is definately a hugh difference in the feeling of driveing a gas engine pick-up versus the same model with a Diesel engine. It's not only the extra weight of the Diesel, but the extra weight of all the other components that go with it. OK, So let me get this straight. Hiker cannot feel the extra weight of a Duramax over that of of a G.M. gas engine. Hiker does not smell Diesel fuel or exhaust. Hiker does not hear the knocking noise made by Diesels made by the combustion of the fuel under high compression and heat combined. [normal operation] But you did hear the turbo! And yes, the newer Diesels are much cleaner and unless the have a problem, you won't get black stains on the front of your trailer like you would for sure if it were a Diesel of the past few decades. [Notoriuosly for belching black smoke all over everything.]
Hiker please show me the math that gives you 75% more torque from your 650 lbs compared to my [corrected] 355 lbs and while you're at it consider the fact that your engine has 70+ more cubic inches than my 330 cu.in. Lincoln engine.

Bob
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Old 09-08-2006, 03:41 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, hiker. I'm one of those people who can feel the difference in the driveability of my vehicles by load, amount of fuel in the tank, and addition of passengers. I work at a Ford dealer and drive vehicles every day, as shopforeman, and there is definately a hugh difference in the feeling of driveing a gas engine pick-up versus the same model with a Diesel engine. It's not only the extra weight of the Diesel, but the extra weight of all the other components that go with it. OK, So let me get this straight. Hiker cannot feel the extra weight of a Duramax over that of of a G.M. gas engine. Hiker does not smell Diesel fuel or exhaust. Hiker does not hear the knocking noise made by Diesels made by the combustion of the fuel under high compression and heat combined. [normal operation] But you did hear the turbo! And yes, the newer Diesels are much cleaner and unless the have a problem, you won't get black stains on the front of your trailer like you would for sure if it were a Diesel of the past few decades. [Notoriuosly for belching black smoke all over everything.]
Hiker please show me the math that gives you 75% more torque from your 650 lbs compared to my [corrected] 355 lbs and while you're at it consider the fact that your engine has 70+ more cubic inches than my 330 cu.in. Lincoln engine.

Bob
Hi Bob,

Forum members can decide for themselves whether present-day diesels stink, make objectionable knocking noises, or drive extremely front heavy. I only know I have been pleasantly surprised about how quiet, smooth, and stable the truck is at highway speeds, and wanted to share my personal experience with other forum members who may be considering a diesel.

About the torque calculation ...
I used your original value of 375 lb-ft in the calculation. The math is as follows: (650-375)/375) * 100 = 73.3%. If I had used your corrected value of 355 lb-ft, the math would have been: (650-355)/355 * 100 = 83.1%.
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Old 09-08-2006, 04:59 PM   #160
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Test Drove A DMAX

I just returned from test driving a DMAX and I can say it drove better than the PSD I drove the other day. It rode much better and had no valve noise or Turbo Whine. The ride was much closer to my F-150 SuperCrew Lariat with the 5.4 Triton V8. I own two Fords so I was very surprised.

Jim
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