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Old 08-16-2006, 10:01 AM   #85
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Terry, it's been a few years, but this was like a bread truck front end - it had an International straight six and an Allison automatic in it. I think it said "Navstar," not "Navistar."

Lamar
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Old 08-16-2006, 11:05 AM   #86
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When we get back from NH next week, I think I will drop the rear to 50 psi (same as front) and see how that feels!

Thanks for the info,
Bill
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Old 08-16-2006, 11:40 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeHarbor
Terry, it's been a few years, but this was like a bread truck front end - it had an International straight six and an Allison automatic in it. I think it said "Navstar," not "Navistar."

Lamar
That would be the DT466, a good truck engine, but not readily adaptably to pickup trucks--it's too tall.
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Old 08-16-2006, 12:46 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillTex
When we get back from NH next week, I think I will drop the rear to 50 psi (same as front) and see how that feels!Thanks for the info,
Bill
well billtex,
i'm sorry i even mentioned it...
see how it feels? geeeesus.......
dealers and sales guys routinely drop truck tire pressures before the test ride...so the customer can 'see how it feels'....don't be an idiot!

is this a suburban?
what tires and what load rating?
have you weighted either the front or rear axles?
have you found the inflation/air pressure table for YOUR tires?

reducing your tire pressures below the vehicle recommended level,
without clear knowledge of weights and load distribution and tire capacity...
is unwise.

nick is running his tires based on an understanding of ALL of these issues...
so he seems informed in the process....and checks pressures often.

no offense cracker but weren't you complaining about the trailer tires...and how airstream inflated them....without checking the pressures for 5-6 month? this was an airstream quality control issue?

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ad-21921.html?

starting with post 24 or so....

billtex....
don't be lazy and just drop pressures....sort this out.

cheers
2air'

and lets get back to the original poster's question...

diesel or gas for a new tow vehicle?

the man is trying to buy a truck....and wants some opinions!
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Old 08-16-2006, 02:20 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
well billtex,
i'm sorry i even mentioned it...
see how it feels? geeeesus.......
dealers and sales guys routinely drop truck tire pressures before the test ride...so the customer can 'see how it feels'....don't be an idiot!

is this a suburban?
what tires and what load rating?
have you weighted either the front or rear axles?
have you found the inflation/air pressure table for YOUR tires?

reducing your tire pressures below the vehicle recommended level,
without clear knowledge of weights and load distribution and tire capacity...
is unwise.

nick is running his tires based on an understanding of ALL of these issues...
so he seems informed in the process....and checks pressures often.

no offense cracker but weren't you complaining about the trailer tires...and how airstream inflated them....without checking the pressures for 5-6 month? this was an airstream quality control issue?

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ad-21921.html?

starting with post 24 or so....

billtex....
don't be lazy and just drop pressures....sort this out.

cheers
2air'

and lets get back to the original poster's question...

diesel or gas for a new tow vehicle?

the man is trying to buy a truck....and wants some opinions!
"

Yes-you are right-this post did get off topic. Of course, before I change my unloaded tire pressure I would consult the tire mfrs tables mentioned previously;

"nick' and others have posted or linked these tables...search around.

basically they show safe pressures as the load on tires varies...
and it seems reasonably safe to follow these tables...
remembering in cold weather or when loads increase or conditions vary.....
pressures should be increased.

I also check my tires weekly (as well as other components). We tow about 2-3 times/month so I check tires, lug nuts, etc frequently. As an Engineer, I tend to be anal about this kind of stuff..

I don't expect a 3/4 ton to ride "nice". But a little softer ride when not towing would be OK with us! (As long as it does not pose a safety/wear issue with the tires!)


Let's keep it cordial also...
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Old 08-16-2006, 02:24 PM   #90
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I couldn't believe how nice my 2500HD rode when I first got it. Then I hooked the my flatbed trailer up with the tractor on it and watched the rear tires go almost flat!! All 4 tires had 25 PSI in them!
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Old 08-16-2006, 03:08 PM   #91
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Hi, 2air,

We've been ALL OVER this topic.

Can anybody draw any conclusions?

We Cummins owners all know we're RIGHT, but we're riding in snazzy looking trucks that by and large ride like a cob. The vast majority of Dodges sold with 3/4-ton or more capacity are diesels, so a lot of folks out there agree. We know we have the only MEDIUM duty diesel engine placed in pickups. (Cummins says that.)

A neighbor has pulled his 30' SOB across the country three times, including to Alaska twice, with a Chevy '03 2500HD gasser. He has a remarkable mud flap, and he says the truck has never broken down on the road. He doesn't talk about the gas mileage, but the truck still looks good and drives well at 60,000 miles.

I know a lot about working with PSDs. Although I haven't had trouble myself with the 6.0s, there's an army of folks out there who have had. I'd shy away from the early models of the 6.0s, but the 7.3s are a very hardy engine, and I'd have one if I didn't have a Cummins.

The Chevy diesels have a lot of zoom, but they are kind of complicated, and the Allison transmissions are pricey to fix/replace. I've ridden in two, and they sure rode nice. The transmissions seemed a bit mysterious to me. Where the Chrysler transmission used with the diesels is very predictable, the Allison seemed to have a LOT of activity going on under there. It was smooth and quiet, though.

It takes a big engine in a gasser to make it pull like a diesel. How many of them are left? There's the 8.1 liter "rat motor" Chevy? There's the Ford and Dodge V-10s?

The alternative is a smaller engine that spins a lot faster. Here we find the 5 - 6 liter engines. I don't think any of them really were designed to be towing motors, at least not like the 8.1.

Two ways to get dreadful miles-per-gallon are to run a very large gas motor and to strain a 5.7 liter engine or smaller.

We started out by talking about a 23' Safari. That won't REQUIRE a diesel tow vehicle. But having one sure wouldn't hurt.

Lamar (Who has, lurking somewhere in the future, a project upcoming on a 1975 Chevy "Big 10" with a 454 and dual fuel tanks.)
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Old 08-16-2006, 03:52 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeHarbor
When I got ready to buy my own truck, it was going to be anything but a FORD.
Lamar, You contradict yourself. On page 5 you said that all except one of the issues weren't related to Ford:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeHarbor
Hi, Scott,

I'd never say that our trucks got the best service in the world, but they were on a 5,000/10,000 miles service interval, if I remember right. The clogged fuel filter was from one bad tank of diesel obtained in Yulee, FL. The radiator hose was due for change-out at the next service (the mechanic later claimed). The ECM failures were traced to a wiring harness problem around the heavy-duty alternator and Ford in Valdosta, GA fixed it.
But then you say:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeHarbor
I know a lot about working with PSDs. Although I haven't had trouble myself with the 6.0s, there's an army of folks out there who have had. I'd shy away from the early models of the 6.0s, but the 7.3s are a very hardy engine, and I'd have one if I didn't have a Cummins.
Now I don't mean to be rude in pointing these out, but I do see you coming around to Fords as this thread grows.

I have an '06 PSD, my first diesel, and I am delighted with it. It took a little getting used to. All that torque comes at a price in terms of dead still start at a stop sign. It surely doesn't accellerate as quickly as my 5.0L F-150 nor does it ride as well. But then again I knew it wouldn't before I ever got behind the wheel. I also knew it wasn't a race car either. But it certainly makes up for both in brute towing force. I can hardly tell my 30' Safari is behind me, even in the hills of Tennessee and Kentucky (on I-75 that is). Oh, and the built-in brake controller, sweeeet! Not to mention those nice, big built-in towing mirrors. Ford really got their act together with their towing package.

My truck has the PSD, towing package with the afore mentioned brake controler, 3.73 rear end, 4Wdisc, and sway bars front and rear. It really tows nicely. It is the crew cab with short bed and Lariate package. I get 20+ MPG's on the highway solo and 12.7 MPG towing. Both at 75 MPH, yes I know it is speedy but the power is there and everything is smooth as silk. My RPM's are virtually the same towing at 75 as they are at 55! (2200 RPM's) Said mountains didn't increase the tranny temp a single bit nor slow 'er down.

I know Chevy owners and Dodge owners are just as loyal to their respective marks as I am to mine, but this is my third Ford truck (counting my wife's Expedition) and I can't imagine buying anything else. Not a single problem with any of them mechanically so far. (Wife's Expedition had carbon build-up in the injectors that had to be manually cleaned and digital odometer light blew.)

As far as the original question, I'm sold on diesels for towing hands down no matter what make; they are all great vehicles. As for passenger cars, I don't know for sure. My wife and I are seriously considering a Hybrid SUV for her next auto. It will probably be the Lexus or maybe the Tauho/Suburban unless Ford comes up with a hybrid Expedition. Anything is possible.
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Old 08-16-2006, 05:10 PM   #93
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Hi, M&M,

I don't think I've contradicted myself. Granted, the failures I've seen in PSDs have not involved core engine components. But I read a lot of forums, and I've read that warrantee claims involving 6.0 PSDs have almost broken Ford. We got good overall results from our PSDs, but we ran them every day and ran them hard. Even if they did sometimes break down, I think we took decent care of them.

I'd like to give Ford the benefit of the doubt, and if they are so confident that they've fixed the problems (100+ technical service bulletins later) that they're giving PSD owners a $2500 loyalty bonus to trade their earlier 6.0s in, then they must be pretty confident.

I hope so! I think Ford makes a fine truck, and, for your sake and others, I hope that your engine is trouble free and never has to go back to the dealer for engine repairs.

Also note the time frame involved. I have ZERO experience with the newer 6.0s, and I can't talk about them. For used 2002-2004 models, I can say that I think the Dodge and Chevy diesels are a better choice. In terms of the engine only, I think the Cummins is the better choice. It's a little bit crude and loud, so it's not for everybody.

Ain't that America?

And I don't think you were in the least bit rude.

My Corvette-collecting brother-in-law, the first time he put his foot into the throttle of my Dodge, said, "Gee. It's a STRONG motor."

We were already rolling when I told him to punch it.

Lamar
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Old 08-17-2006, 04:18 AM   #94
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Thanks, 2air’, for reminding us about my original question:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238/gas-vs-diesel-new-world-25248.html?highlight=ULSD
Thanks, everyone for sharing your experiences and thoughts…
Which help this newly retired man about to buy his first (and hopefully last) AS:
A 2007 23’ Safari SE with L-Lounge.
I live in San Diego, CA and mountain towing is a big factor.
I’ve been happy with my first two Ford Rangers and my local service/dealer…
But now it’s time to upgrade to a tow vehicle that will last a long time…
Your comments helped to confirm that a good selection for me would be:
A 2006 F-250 Power Stroke Diesel with Tow Command System
Built-in brake controller and telescoping mirrors are a plus…
But the last minute decision to buy diesel may hinge on the price of fuel…
New ULSD fuel will be required in CA in September and other states in Oct.
So please keep your comments coming in here…
And post your current fuel prices at:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f161/fuel-price-watch-18423-19.html
Cheers,
Bill
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Old 08-17-2006, 06:57 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverGate
But the last minute decision to buy diesel may hinge on the price of fuel…
New ULSD fuel will be required in CA in September and other states in Oct.
So please keep your comments coming in here…
Cheers,
Bill
A good reason to buy a 06 vehicle. Word on diesels is; new emissions (starting with 07 diesel vehicles) will have the equivalent of a catalytic converter. Performance will most likely be down, mpg will be down, cost will be increased (an additional $5k/truck from what my dealer says).

I am sure in 2/3 years they will sort out the performance issues. But if you are considering a new truck soon, I would get an 06.

Bill
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Old 08-17-2006, 07:31 AM   #96
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An ADDITIONAL $5K????? So a new diesel is going to be a $12K option?
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Old 08-17-2006, 07:38 AM   #97
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An ADDITIONAL $5K????? So a new diesel is going to be a $12K option?
That is what I was told by the dealer when I purchased my 06 last month...sales tactic?
I don't know.
He was pretty firm in his statement.
Somebody has to pay for the new technology...it won't be GM!
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Old 08-17-2006, 09:52 AM   #98
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Tried real hard to stay out of this but here I go.
First of, diesel vs gas.
-There are more btu's in diesel than gas wich relates into more energy
-I dissagree that it costs more to maintain a diesel, the only critical maintance is Air,Fuel and Oil filters (I opt to leave cooling out), granted that it takes three times the amount of oil but here again it is not necessary to change the oil every 3000 miles. There are aftermarket products such as milemaker that can extend oil changes way beond what I ever thought possible. A clean fuel system will relate into very long injector life, I have seen pop tests on injectors with over 120k and they where within manufactuers specifications. Cummins recommends valve adjustment when most gas engines enter the twilight of there lifespan. This can be performed in your driveway with the most basic of hand tools. (I will assume that Ford and Chevy are similar)
- I think that most of us AS users would never tax the limits of a modern diesel powered TV. The box trailer I tow for work is more strain than the loaded AS with all gear in the bed and 4 head in the cab. Look around you going down the road, 34'+ 5th wheel units with quad slides resting on 3/4 ton short bed pickups. 1 ton pickups used as car haulers or towing farm and medium duty construction equipment on flatbed trailers. Most of us could get away with a 1/2 ton diesel pickup for our towing needs but that is not being offered to us at this time. For some reason we are antiquated when it comes to diesel powered vehicles in this country.

I have been using diesel pickups for over 10 years and purchase every new vehicle with a minimum lifespan expectancy of 10 years. My last new gas powered vehicle purchase needs to last 2 more years to get there and at 113k on the clock with regular maintance it is showing its age. The diesel on the other hand is 3 years away has 167k on the clock and runs like a champ.
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