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Old 08-13-2006, 07:29 PM   #29
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My wife just bought a 2007 VW rabbit. We wanted a diesel as we owned a 2000 VW diesel but were told that VW will have not be importing diesels again until 2008' I have 5000 miles on a 2006 F350 Crew cab and love it. I'm averaging 15mpg's.
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Old 08-13-2006, 08:25 PM   #30
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You guys are leaving out one VERY important factor.....NEW or USED?

I bought my 2002 GMC 2500HD Duramax/Allison for $18,000 under MSRP original list in 2004 with 41,700 miles on it.
It was hardly broken in.
Everyone knows that the greatest depreciation comes in the first 2-3 years.
So, you can lower your cost per mile if you are willing to buy used, and let someone else take the big depreciation hickey.....Can you tell I do financial planning/consulting for a living?
The Duramax also gets 13 mpg towing the Airstream and the Yukon got 5.5 mpg.....now average that out on a 1500 mile trip @ approximate equal fuel costs per gallon of unleaded and diesel.
Also, the Yukon gets 15 average daily driving, and the Duramax gets 19-21 hwy depending on how much torque I like feeling..<smile>...
I hope I never go back to a gasser with it's anemic towing performance, lower fuel economy, and lack of durability.
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Old 08-13-2006, 08:35 PM   #31
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This subject comes up when discussing the "repower" question for us motorhome owners from time to time. There are enough good stories about going diesel that I think it's my current replacement plan for the 454 in my old bird. Perhaps I see it in very simple terms:

Yes it's less to replace the 454 with a 454. But when you start looking at a correctly sized engine with better torque curves as a replacement (a crate GM Performance 502 with 512 ft-lbs at 2800 runs about $5900) a Cummins/Isuszu/Duramax replacement from a donor becomes cost effective.

It gets better gas mileage. I like that. Like many, I tend to get emotional at the pump about the costs of RVing....not at the parts counter.

It last longer. Period.

Since my 345 is getting ready to roll over 200,000 miles this fall, and it's on it's second gas engine (at least). I have to believe the longer term view on a motorhome would be that diesels rule. Less overall costs (including maintenance). Yes, I know there are issue with weight and transmissions and gearing, but since we plan to keep our motorhome for as long as we possibly can...well it makes sense to me to replace the engine once and be done with it.

Lastly, since most of our trips tend to be local (less than one 80 gallon tank of fuel) with only a couple of longer trips (4 - 5 tanks of fuel) the concept of SVO or Bio is attractive given I would have longer periods of time to collect and produce for local use....then use pump dino on the road. I should say that this is not my goal for a converstion...but I do have several friends who own restaurants and like the idea of an alternative source if I decided to go svo/bio.

Now all I need is a donor vehicle and a lot of free time on my hands for the R&R.
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Old 08-13-2006, 09:01 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craftsman
My wife just bought a 2007 VW rabbit. We wanted a diesel as we owned a 2000 VW diesel but were told that VW will have not be importing diesels again until 2008' I have 5000 miles on a 2006 F350 Crew cab and love it. I'm averaging 15mpg's.
Craftsman, Feel fortunate to be able to buy the 07 VW diesel in your area. VW has no plans, even into 08, to meet Ca. emssions. So we can't even consider the idea of a new one. Hard to believe, you can find in my area, dealers importing used 06 Jetta's and golf's brought in from Texas, used of course, and there selling for more than new!
Go Arnold! Whens the last time he fueled is own car and watch the meter spin
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Old 08-13-2006, 09:11 PM   #33
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Jeff - is he still driing that Hummer?
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Old 08-13-2006, 09:15 PM   #34
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Steven, I don't think he's driving or operating anything anymore. Remember his little motorcycle accident?
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Old 08-13-2006, 09:19 PM   #35
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David above makes a good point. I found out that I have the credit to buy a brand new Dodge Quad Cab diesel - but the payments would have equaled a mortage.

I left and told them to find me a 2003.

Two days later they found it and called me. Oddly, it was the truck that I would have ordered - all the good stuff for towing and a few creature comforts, and not any of the excess stuff that breaks.

I got it for 3/5s what it would cost me to order a new one. It had 40,171 miles on it.

I think it's good to buy a two to three year old truck and let the original owner take the depreciation hit.

My truck still has 50,000 miles and/or until 2010 before the engine warrantee runs out. It's also rated to tow 13,800 lbs with a combined vehicle weight rating of 19,000 lbs. I could tow BOTH my trailers without being outside of those limits.

Lamar
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Old 08-13-2006, 09:30 PM   #36
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One of the first comments about buying a diesel is about the initial extra cost of roughly 9 grand. I even heard it from a salesman that said to me "you have to drive a lot in order to pay for that initial investment". Doesn't anyone get it? I told the salesman that you don't loose all that money when you drive it off the lot, the diesel will depreciate but it will retain a higher resale and be worth more than a similar equipped gasser and it will probably sell faster than a used gas truck. You don't loose the 9 grand so recalculate...
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Old 08-13-2006, 09:54 PM   #37
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Gas

Pick, I decided on the 8.1 Liter Suburban with HD trans. and 3.73 rear, although the deisel wasn't an option in the suburban nor was the allison trans. which I hear is bullet proof. To tell you the the truth I test drove the diesel truck with allison trans and did not care for the ride or the feel of the trans. I am sure its a great towing vehicle,but that 8.1 suburban really moves. Gas mileage 11 towing, 13-15 not towing. Darrell
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Old 08-13-2006, 10:41 PM   #38
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Hi basecamp--Good thought about the resale value of a diesel. If you look at an average 2003 model, here are the increases in resale for a diesel: Chevy $4925, Dodge $4400, Ford $5175. A 2003 Chevy with 8.1 gas has a $925 increase, which is a better return on the originial investment.--Frank S
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Old 08-13-2006, 10:43 PM   #39
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Hi--Correction to above--the 8.1ltr increase is $1050, for the 2003 Chevy.--Frank S
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Old 08-14-2006, 12:03 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coastalview
Craftsman, Feel fortunate to be able to buy the 07 VW diesel in your area. VW has no plans, even into 08, to meet Ca. emssions. So we can't even consider the idea of a new one. Hard to believe, you can find in my area, dealers importing used 06 Jetta's and golf's brought in from Texas, used of course, and there selling for more than new!
Go Arnold! Whens the last time he fueled is own car and watch the meter spin
Jeff
I think it has less to do with VW not wanting to bring the TDI's in 2007 and 2008, but rather CA's archaic views of clean burning diesels. Even Mercedes has to drop it's CDI diesel cars in CA and is running into the same problems with federal emissions as VW. Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel, particulate filters (VW) and urea injection (Mercedes) go a LONG way to cleaning up that diesel smoke.

VW is selling the USLD sipping, particulate filter running V10 TDI Touareg as a 2006 model in September. They are 'illegal' again as an '07 model. Of course, you need to suck up the huge price tag to go with it, but at least the 6000# beast will give you back 22 mpg in style.




I had the chance to drive the Pike Peak Hill Climb Touareg V10 TDI race car for a week for a recent offroad rally that I put on for other Touareg owners. I put on almost 700 highway miles (with about 2900 lbs of trailer) on in a week, and an additional 250 city/highway miles while doing errands around town. The V10 engine was ABSOLUTELY AMAZING! Blasted off the line like a rocket, pulled hard up the steepest of passes, and happily lazed thru the cityscape with plenty of power always on demand to snatch up that free space on the freeway.

The Touareg V10 with particulate filter and ULSD produces NO SMOKE WHATSOEVER. Not a 14,000ft, not towing a trailer 65 uphill, not even when stomping on it when cold. It doesn't sound like a traditional diesel (still a little clatter), and it doesn't smell like a diesel when running ULSD. I was completely amazed with it's performance and economy. Towing my opened top U-Haul trailer from Denver to near Telluride, I managed 18.5 MPG with an average highway speed of 75mph. This includes two major hill climbs on I-70. Free of the trailer, I averaged 21mpg. It probably would have been better, but I was busy driving it like the race car it was.



Unfortunately, I had to return it to VW before I had a chance to tow the Airstream with it.

If I could afford one, I'd get it. VW is still planning on bringing their V6 3.0L TDI over in the Touareg within the next few years. That will probably be my next car. We did get to drive a V6 TDI for a week last year. It returned a non towing highway average of around 28mpg!

We did used to own a 2002 Jetta 1.9L TDI. We were completely thrilled with its performance at altitude and always delivered a minimum fuel average of 32mpg in the hilly area we live in. Lifetime best that we saw was 50mpg on a weekend run to Taos, NM!

Only one did it cause me major grief with fuel gelling. We ended up getting rid of it because it could not negotiate our steep driveway in the winter, and that it was getting too small for our growing family. If it had AWD, it would probably still be sitting in the driveway. We never had a chance to run Biodiesel in it because there were no commercial fuel sources nearby. One has opened up since. The owner we sold it to brewed his own bio for use in his Expedition, and was going to fuel the Jetta with it.

While I'm on the Biodiesel topic, VW officially says that BioDiesel in a NO-NO with their vehicles in ratios more than a B5 blend. In Europe, many people run Bio in their VW's, but their Bio is produced from an entirely different plant with different lubricating properties.
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Old 08-14-2006, 12:07 AM   #41
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A brief edit on my post above.
I get 13 mpg towing at 65-70. I get over 14 mpg at 60-65.
My Yukon gets about that same mileage, solo, and can't pull any kind of grade towing without downshifting to 2nd, and grinding out hills at 2700 rpms and 43 mph.
The Duramax knows no bounds.... 70 mph up I-40 West from Santa Rosa to Clines Corners, NM....or 70 mph out of Moab UT up the hill to Monticello, UT....and it doesn't even know the trailer is behind it.
I won't ever willingly go back to a gasser.
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Old 08-14-2006, 01:11 AM   #42
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David ,I was reading your post on the Yukon towing mpg @ 5.5 , what motor is that. My 8.1 ltr is steady at around 11 mpg towing not paying attention to speed or grades this is a consistant average. Darrell
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