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Old 08-13-2006, 03:44 PM   #15
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this sounds an aweful lot like the Mac vs PC argument!

I pull an '05 19' Bambi with my 4.2L Toyoya diesel. Love it, would be nice to have more power though but I only tow 10% of the time so I prefer the 24mpg I get now empty over the 15mpg I'd get with a bigger diesel.
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Old 08-13-2006, 03:46 PM   #16
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I just ran a spreadsheet, and came up with a surprising result.
Assumptions: 12,000 miles per year. 12 mpg Gasser, 18 mpg Diesel.
At $3 per gallon for gas, the break even cost per mile, (fuel only) is $4.50 per gallon diesel!!!! So, I guess if diesel is .25 higher than gas, it's not such a big deal after all.

At $3 for both fuels, you save $1000 a year in fuel costs.

At $3.25 for diesel savings drop to $833 per year.
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Old 08-13-2006, 04:02 PM   #17
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2Air, Yep I have a F150. When all is figured out I am too close to max for my comfort. I'd rather have a larger margin between what I tow and what I can tow. That will give me plenty of haulibility for gensets, firewood, found lost treasure etc.

Pick, You have reinforced my decision with that spreadsheet. Now if I were towing 30k a year like some I'd be at the front of the line for a PSD.
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Old 08-13-2006, 04:32 PM   #18
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Hi Pick--What about initial engine cost premium, and maintenance in your cost comparison?--Frank S
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Old 08-13-2006, 04:57 PM   #19
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Here's what I got from the local ford dealer:

Both trucks have same trim level and options. 4X4 power everything

F250 gasser $37,000

F250 diesel $42,000

Both prices rounded up to nearest thousand.

Price 10 min ago here in Los Angeles:

Reg $3.21

Diesel $3.15

Comments you numbers guys.
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Old 08-13-2006, 05:12 PM   #20
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Zen and the joy of compression ignition

I'm sure there are others like me who get quiet satisfaction from using exactly the right tool for exactly the right job. (Don't you love your SDS drill and your torque wrench?) Just as poetry is exactly the right word in exactly the right place.
The diesel produces its torque at low revs, precisely where it is needed for hauling an Airstream. I have to smile when I see the rev counter showing 1600 rpm as we reel off the miles. IIRC, the major service interval for our Cummins engine is not far off half a million miles, which should happily see me to the great salvage yard in the sky. This is more of an issue for me than the detailed assessment of cost per mile.
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Old 08-13-2006, 05:12 PM   #21
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The last cost of ownership analysis I saw for comparable gas and diesel engines, had a 150,000 mile break even point. That is, you would have to drive the diesel 150,000 miles for the higher inital cost of the diesel to pay for itself, on a maintenance-only basis (not counting better mpg, only less cost in maintenance).
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Old 08-13-2006, 05:18 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Pick
Well, it's hard to say. I think you have to look at COST PER MILE, versus gas, diesel, etc.

Lew, the biggest problem with brewing your own biodiesel is finding feedstock. How much fuel are you going to burn looking for and collecting it? That is if you can find any WVO at all. Then finding, picking up and purchasing methanol.

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Hi Pick,

I am lucky in that I have a good friend with 3 restaurants in my area who has been BEGGING me to take the WVO that he is now PAYING to have removed!! Last time I figured it, a gallon of BIO was going to cost me under a buck to produce with a 56 week break-even point on the equipment.

I'll be re-doing the math ASAP when I get back to FL .
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Old 08-13-2006, 05:23 PM   #23
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Lew, how much of that stuff is mounted on/in the vehicle? I live close enough to your winter home where if the equipment is primarily land-based, splitting the cost would be even better.
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Old 08-13-2006, 05:41 PM   #24
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Well, this doesn't have anything to do with a tow vehicle but I just got a new to me 2003 Volkswagon Jetta TDI. I just LOVE it so far!. The EPA estamates are 44 city and 49 highway. I fell in love with diesels earlier this year when I got an old 1971 Mercedes Benz 220D. I have been useing some WVO in the Benz and have been gathering the equipment to start doing my own bio diesel soon. I love diesels!!
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Old 08-13-2006, 05:47 PM   #25
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Well, this doesn't have anything to do with a tow vehicle but I just got a new to me 2003 Volkswagon Jetta TDI. I just LOVE it so far!. The EPA estamates are 44 city and 49 highway. I fell in love with diesels earlier this year when I got an old 1971 Mercedes Benz 220D. I have been useing some WVO in the Benz and have been gathering the equipment to start doing my own bio diesel soon. I love diesels!!
VW diesel owners are as fiercely loyal as Airstream owners. I have owned several diesel-powered vehicles over the years, and have had good results with most of them (even the Oldsmobile). My current fleet includes an elderly F250 with the old Navistar 6.9 diesel.
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Old 08-13-2006, 06:15 PM   #26
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Just as staying in the Airstream costs more than the Super 8, the diesel costs more than the gasser. But I'll keep both.
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Old 08-13-2006, 06:39 PM   #27
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A year or so ago, there was a post on TheDieselStop.com on this very subject. One person ran the numbers and assuming the same price for diesel and regular unleaded, the cost of the diesel upgrade in an F-250, a 30% higher fuel mileage in the diesel, and the higher cost of oil changes in the diesel, the diesel became more economical after 80,000 miles. Bottom line, if you trade often, buy gas, if you put a lot of miles on a vehicle or want to keep a vehicle for many years, buy diesel.

BTW, I was recently in the UK and Germany. Adjusting for currency and measurements, a gallon of diesel was approximately $7 in the UK and $5 in Germany. Gasoline was considerably higher.
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Old 08-13-2006, 06:55 PM   #28
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Diesel or Gas

There have been several gas pickups in my life over the years. Then, in 1995 I bought the PowerStroke turbo-diesel I still have and I'll never go back to gas. I've been teaching photography from the Rocky Mountains to the Left Coast for thirty years, from north to south, and this rig will pull with as much power as I need. Doesn't matter if it's at Bad Water at -200+ feet below sea level or if it's up in Darwin, close to the stars. Still has all the performance I need. When I'm not towing or hauling, I can pretend it's my sports car, it sprints around so fast. It's got over 100K miles on it and seems to still be going strong. If I was replacing it today it would be with the Chevy/GMC Duramax/Allison.

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