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Old 09-12-2006, 01:56 AM   #183
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hi bob and razor back...

well the leaded gas comparison isn't really the same. lead was removed, nothing was used as a replacement. instread the engines were changed (hardened valves) so as not to need lead.

your gasoline is now reformulated regularly...mtbe has been removed and ethanonl inserted....additives change all the time...

on the diesel side the BIG change is fuel was a few years ago when sulfur was reduced from 5000ppm to the current levels...in lsd...
ulsd takes sulfer from approx 150ppm to 5-15ppm...so the change isn't that big this time...

also other lubricants have already been put in the diesel fuel as a substitute for sulfer...

like razor back..i already use a lubricant/cetane booster...i really like stanadyne....

and i'm gonna try a bottle of the motorcraft diesel fuel treatment this week.

cheers
2air'
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Old 09-12-2006, 09:59 AM   #184
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That reminds me - I need to go dump some Marvel Mystery Oil/Service Power Kleen in the tank. Filled it up last night and forgot to add it.

The Cummins doesn't love creeping around town. There are two possible remedies - go run it and haul something, or medicate it.

Both quieten it down nicely.

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Old 09-12-2006, 11:33 AM   #185
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Boy has this thread got off topic since I was last here (cloth/leather seats?)!

To really simplify, letís keep in mind that big block gassers have MORE CYLINDERS (Ford/Dodge=10, GM=8) than the dieselís used by the Big 3; Ford/GM=8 cyl, Dodge = 6 cyl. More cylinders= more moving parts. If we are going to make comparisons of gas versus diesels, then small blocks just donít arenít in this league.
Unlike gasoline fired engines, diesels lack a butterfly valve (choke) in the inlet system, which closes at idle. This creates parasitic drag on the incoming air, reducing the efficency of gasoline engines at idle.
Diesels also lack an electrical ignition system. The high durability of a diesel engine is also due to its overbuilt nature (see above) as well as the diesel's combustion cycle, which creates less-violent changes in pressure when compared to a spark-ignition engine, a benefit that is magnified by the lower rotating speeds in diesels. All internal combustion engines must have a means of ignition to promote combustion. Most engines use either an electrical or a compression heating ignition system. Electrical ignition systems generally rely on a lead-acid battery and an induction coil to provide a high voltage electrical spark to ignite the air-fuel mix in the engine's cylinders. Compression heating ignition systems, such as diesel engines and HCCI engines, rely on the heat created in the air by compression in the engine's cylinders to ignite the fuel.
On average, when comparing the engines for sale today, in car lots across America, diesel engines offer greater efficiency, and produce more power, than gas engines. I donít really favor one technology over the other, I drive both. I love the small block 350 in my daily driver-what a great engine. But there is no question I would rather tow with my diesel.
When people start to discuss (defend/compare) towing with small block V8 gas engines versus towing with a diesel, it really is ridiculous. I have towed with both. As someone said earlier ďthou doth protest to loudlyĒ or rather ďthose that donít know just havenít driven a diesel lately.Ē I am not saying they are for everyone, and many donít need/ canít justify buying diesel, especially if you are not towing a lot of weight or long distance. But I suspect, and the many conversations/trip reports on this board confirm, that many here do tow a lot. And like their diesels.

BTW Silvergate, good choice on the F250 PS-nice truck. Your decision has answered the original question

Bill
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Old 09-12-2006, 12:43 PM   #186
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It seems more civil when we talk about leather vs. cloth upholstry rather than number of moving parts. I vote we stick to upholstry options since silvergate has made his decision.
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Old 09-12-2006, 01:00 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
It seems more civil when we talk about leather vs. cloth upholstry rather than number of moving parts. I vote we stick to upholstry options since silvergate has made his decision.
Sounds good-some of that was getting ridiculous.

My heated leather seats aren't cold in the winter at all!
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Old 09-12-2006, 01:16 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverGate
Thank you all for the congrats!… hiker…
Jim Clark… the dealer started with a relatively low price…
and I got $3000 factory rebate on top of that.
Minnie’s Mate… cloth seats for me… should wear longer…
…especially with my two dogs.
2air’… thanks for helping me keep this tread focussed…
and encouraging us to think out of the box…
interesting article on hcci… looks like Ford might have one in 5 years...
or you might find one at that next ladies rally!

Cheers,
Bill
WOW!! What a beautifull truck! Thats gotta be one the best looking trucks I've ever seen!!! You are a man of style and taste. Clearly you would would tie in the "tape measure" contest and all women will find you attractive.

Can you tell that my new truck and your new truck look alike?
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:28 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
It seems more civil when we talk about leather vs. cloth upholstry rather than number of moving parts. I vote we stick to upholstry options since silvergate has made his decision.

Hi, I'm stuck with leather seats in my Navigator, for now anyway. I preferred the very comfortable cloth seats that my 1996 Ford Explorer 2 dr Sport had, but the Explorer's 4.0 L push rod engine and vehicles short wheel base and lack of tow capacity just had to go. After we bought the Navigator the Explorer had to find a new home. Even with heated and cooled seats, [in the Lincoln] The Explorer's cloth seats were much better.

My vote is for cloth!


Bob
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Old 09-12-2006, 11:18 PM   #190
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Apples and Oranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillTex
Boy has this thread got off topic since I was last here (cloth/leather seats?)!

To really simplify, letís keep in mind that big block gassers have MORE CYLINDERS (Ford/Dodge=10, GM=8) than the dieselís used by the Big 3; Ford/GM=8 cyl, Dodge = 6 cyl. More cylinders= more moving parts. If we are going to make comparisons of gas versus diesels, then small blocks just donít arenít in this league.
Unlike gasoline fired engines, diesels lack a butterfly valve (choke) in the inlet system, which closes at idle. This creates parasitic drag on the incoming air, reducing the efficency of gasoline engines at idle.
Diesels also lack an electrical ignition system. The high durability of a diesel engine is also due to its overbuilt nature (see above) as well as the diesel's combustion cycle, which creates less-violent changes in pressure when compared to a spark-ignition engine, a benefit that is magnified by the lower rotating speeds in diesels. All internal combustion engines must have a means of ignition to promote combustion. Most engines use either an electrical or a compression heating ignition system. Electrical ignition systems generally rely on a lead-acid battery and an induction coil to provide a high voltage electrical spark to ignite the air-fuel mix in the engine's cylinders. Compression heating ignition systems, such as diesel engines and HCCI engines, rely on the heat created in the air by compression in the engine's cylinders to ignite the fuel.
On average, when comparing the engines for sale today, in car lots across America, diesel engines offer greater efficiency, and produce more power, than gas engines. I donít really favor one technology over the other, I drive both. I love the small block 350 in my daily driver-what a great engine. But there is no question I would rather tow with my diesel.
When people start to discuss (defend/compare) towing with small block V8 gas engines versus towing with a diesel, it really is ridiculous. I have towed with both. As someone said earlier ďthou doth protest to loudlyĒ or rather ďthose that donít know just havenít driven a diesel lately.Ē I am not saying they are for everyone, and many donít need/ canít justify buying diesel, especially if you are not towing a lot of weight or long distance. But I suspect, and the many conversations/trip reports on this board confirm, that many here do tow a lot. And like their diesels.

BTW Silvergate, good choice on the F250 PS-nice truck. Your decision has answered the original question

Bill

Hi, I started with a V-6 2 cycle Detroit Diesel; Then a Ferrari V-12 4 cycle 48 valve, dual overhead cam gas engine. and the count was on!
You win, Bill Tex, The gas engine has a lot more parts.

Bob

By the way; the Ferrari had leather seats.
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Old 09-13-2006, 08:21 AM   #191
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My 1995 F-150 Extended Cab has the manual 40-20-40 cloth front seats with the inflatable lumbar support. That configuration is essentially two armless captain's chairs with a center seat section that folds down to make a very wide arm rest with two cup holders and a covered storage compartment. Those are comfortable seats. With the extended cab I can get just the right angle and could actually lean back and support my head on the high-back seats. With the fold down bench seat in the extended portion of the cab you can seat 6...just not very comfortably. When the kids road in booster seats, the back seats were adequate. When my oldest outgrew his booster seat, the back seat just wasn't adequate any more. I still enjoy driving that truck and I hate to part with it.

My 2005 F-250 Crew Cab has power leather captain's chairs with a mechanical lumbar support. No where near as comfortable as the F-150's. The way the seats are arched there is no way to lean back and support your head. Even with the 6-way power adjustments I can't get it so I can. This leads to neck fatigue. It's a bummer on long trips. However, I have grown to enjoy driving this new truck as much as the old truck with the exception of lack of neck support on long trips. I'm sure I will get used to that part in time.

I wish Ford had kept the seat design they had in the '95's. Even my wife admits those seats are more comfortable than her Expedition's.
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Old 09-13-2006, 08:41 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, I started with a V-6 2 cycle Detroit Diesel; Then a Ferrari V-12 4 cycle 48 valve, dual overhead cam gas engine. and the count was on!
You win, Bill Tex, The gas engine has a lot more parts.

Bob

By the way; the Ferrari had leather seats.
The real question is how much gas mileage dose the Ferrari get pulling your Airstream 5 miles an hour above the posted speed limit.

I am not even go to bring up the tape measure issue.

Jim
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Old 09-13-2006, 08:47 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
My 1995 F-150 Extended Cab has the manual 40-20-40 cloth front seats with the inflatable lumbar support. That configuration is essentially two armless captain's chairs with a center seat section that folds down to make a very wide arm rest with two cup holders and a covered storage compartment. Those are comfortable seats. With the extended cab I can get just the right angle and could actually lean back and support my head on the high-back seats. With the fold down bench seat in the extended portion of the cab you can seat 6...just not very comfortably. When the kids road in booster seats, the back seats were adequate. When my oldest outgrew his booster seat, the back seat just wasn't adequate any more. I still enjoy driving that truck and I hate to part with it.

My 2005 F-250 Crew Cab has power leather captain's chairs with a mechanical lumbar support. No where near as comfortable as the F-150's. The way the seats are arched there is no way to lean back and support your head. Even with the 6-way power adjustments I can't get it so I can. This leads to neck fatigue. It's a bummer on long trips. However, I have grown to enjoy driving this new truck as much as the old truck with the exception of lack of neck support on long trips. I'm sure I will get used to that part in time.

I wish Ford had kept the seat design they had in the '95's. Even my wife admits those seats are more comfortable than her Expedition's.
I am sure the 2006 PSD I test drove had the 40-20-40 seat in a crew cab cloth. I remember because I have captians chairs and I keep my brake controller in my center console and thought how much less junk I would collect. It may not be available in leather.

Jim

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Old 09-13-2006, 09:45 AM   #194
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It seems to me they could have just stuck arms on the 40-20-40's captain chairs and used them instead of coming up with a new design for the regular captain's chairs. You'd think they could leave well enough alone.
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Old 09-13-2006, 09:48 AM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
It seems to me they could have just stuck arms on the 40-20-40's captain chairs and used them instead of coming up with a new design for the regular captain's chairs. You'd think they could leave well enough alone.
Then they wouldn't be able to advertise it as "All New" or "New and Impoved"...wouldn't want to violate the truth in adverstising laws would we

BTW I agree most of the time the New and Improved stuff is no improvement at all.

Aaron
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Old 09-13-2006, 10:45 AM   #196
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Here's a quick report on our DMax. Just returned from a 900 mile trip with the AS, all of which was through Wyoming and Colorado mountains. With 15,000 on the clock, averaged 14 mpg overall. Pulling mountain passes can be summed up with maintaining a steady 50 mph in overdrive up Rabbit Ears pass. It is an 11 mile climb at 7 per cent grade east out of Steamboat Springs.
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