Gas verses Diesel Tow Vehicle

[SCOTTinNJ]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

Very true....I just don’t like the 4000 rpm going up hill, with the flashers on...it isn’t going to happen here....l like 1500 rpm .....

I've been at 4000 plenty of times. Up and down hills. But haven't found myself going slow enough for the flashers.

[xrvr]

Originally Posted by EZTOO

While info on new technology is important, to say TVs that are 5-10 years old are irrelevant is in poor taste. Some folks might appreciate how their possible TV might hold up over the long-term. My 2013 F-250, 6.2 has been a solid performer and I think they still offer that model/engine...

Reread my post please. I did not say old trucks were irrelevant, i said comparingg them to new trucks was!

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

Very true....I just don’t like the 4000 rpm going up hill, with the flashers on...it isn’t going to happen here....l like 1500 rpm .....

If you're at 4000 rpm you're doing something wrong. And don't get me started on flashers...

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

.....are you kidding me...2017 ram. 6.7. Filters $85 at dodge....2.5 gal of def at Walmart...$7.35...good for 1500 miles towing....7

DEF? What's that? And my fuel filter is good for 200k miles...🤑

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by jcl

I had two diesel vehicles when I lived in the UK. Wouldn’t buy one here unless I needed a heavy truck.

When I considered a diesel SUV some years back my wife made it clear she wouldn’t be refueling it, based on our three years of UK experience. The smell is primarily when refuelling these days.

Diesels are no longer preferred in Europe. New vehicle sales of diesels are now less than gasoline. Manufacturers are moving away from diesels. There is still a large in service fleet, but it will keep dropping, and the bans on diesels in large cities will accelerate that trend.

Diesels in Europe were subsidized by reduced fuel taxes for fuel efficiency reasons. Now that air quality is a higher priority, the writing is on the wall.

Wherever yo got your information about diesels not being preferred any longer in Europe it is factually wrong. We just returned from a visit in Germany. All our family and friends are driving diesels and on the roads the fastest, biggest and newest luxury cars blowing your doors off are all diesel. Audie, Mercedes, Porsche, Renault whatever.
We were at a Christmas market in Nuremberg. While waiting for hours for my wife I entertained myself by counting cars with diesels, 6 out of every 10 was diesel and that included new models. I did that mostly out of curiosity remembering some wild eyed so called expert commenting that diesel cars are on the way out in Europe. They are not ! BTW diesel fuel is 30% less expensive there than gasoline. Their gas prices on average are 3 to 4 times higher than ours right now.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

Wherever yo got your information about diesels not being preferred any longer in Europe it is factually wrong. We just returned from a visit in Germany. All our family and friends are driving diesels and on the roads the fastest, biggest and newest luxury cars blowing your doors off are all diesel. Audie, Mercedes, Porsche, Renault whatever.
We were at a Christmas market in Nuremberg. While waiting for hours for my wife I entertained myself by counting cars with diesels, 6 out of every 10 was diesel and that included new models. I did that mostly out of curiosity remembering some wild eyed so called expert commenting that diesel cars are on the way out in Europe. They are not ! BTW diesel fuel is 30% less expensive there than gasoline. Their gas prices on average are 3 to 4 times higher than ours right now.

Those in the industry know otherwise. Europe is eliminating diesel cars gradually.

[Bill M.]

Looks like running a diesel and using 30 to 40% less fuel would be applauded by those concerned with climate change. Instead diesels get a bad name "enviromentally". But they put out significantly less carbon dioxide per mile than gas engines.

[xrvr]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Those in the industry know otherwise. Europe is eliminating diesel cars gradually.

I have read some of those reports, all written by media with an agenda. Wishful thinking? One of the quotes,,,dirty, filthy diesels..... Repeat something often enough and it becomes the truth.!

[jcl]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

Wherever you got your information about diesels not being preferred any longer in Europe it is factually wrong. We just returned from a visit in Germany. All our family and friends are driving diesels and on the roads the fastest, biggest and newest luxury cars blowing your doors off are all diesel. Audie, Mercedes, Porsche, Renault whatever..

Having been in the business, I relied on the figures from the European Automobile Manufacturer’s Association. They should know. I was referring to new sales, where diesel is dropping as a share of total sales, and not to the current fleet, which you observed. Maybe your friends are driving older vehicles, and not purchasing new ones.

http://www.acea.be/statistics/articl...etrol-vehicles

As manufacturers reduce the number of diesels they offer, the reduction in sales will accelerate.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

Looks like running a diesel and using 30 to 40% less fuel would be applauded by those concerned with climate change. Instead diesels get a bad name "enviromentally". But they put out significantly less carbon dioxide per mile than gas engines.

CO2 is why diesel powered vehicles had a good run in Europe, aided by a favourable tax structure, until NOx emissions caught up to them. I was driving a diesel Landrover in the UK when the tax rules changed there. I paid the lease company a significant penalty to take it back, although there were years left on the lease term. Took me a few months to break even on the new tax rates for the replacement vehicle, then I was miles ahead.

You can achieve lower CO2 with a smaller engine or vehicle, you don’t need a diesel with its attendant air quality impacts.

Look at the new RAM 1500 just announced. They didn’t announce a Diesel engine for it. I am sure they will when they get it through certification. But reports are that it won’t be called an ecodiesel any longer. Something about truth in advertising.

[Bill M.]

"You can achieve lower CO2 with a smaller engine or vehicle, you don’t need a diesel with its attendant air quality impacts."

But we are talking about tow vehicles here. Where a certain about of mass and power is needed to do the job and then the TV must be driven without the tow. Surely 15 mpg versus 9 mpg is important in terms of CO2 when towing? Or 20 mpg versus 16 mpg empty.

[sbowman]

Originally Posted by bwoodtx

I have the 3.55 with 20" tires. Truck is a 2013 King Ranch.

Since I bought this vehicle used with only 36K on it, most of the initial cost outlay has been nullified. I do not have an answer to your question as I have not thought about it.

I can tell you that I would not have bought this truck new.

My line of thinking is that if I have a $70K truck and a $90K airstream, I should be able to afford fuel and maintenance. If not, then I should have another set up.

Well said.

Presuming everyone buys what truck and configuration of said truck for what ever reason is there choice. Most likely same for the AS they have chosen. Spending 1k to save a penny for the long haul could be viewed as "looking w/blinders on "w/o consideration given for the "big picture". Again ones choice as to how they spend there time and monies. Think big, spend wisely, and enjoy what you have.

Best regards and safe travels

[sbowman]

Originally Posted by pappy19

If you had a 2015 Dodge diesel and after 3 years only put on 30k miles, you really didn't need a diesel in the first place, you wanted one. And that is the final thought, no current Airstream model requires a 3/4 or 1 ton truck and not a diesel powered one for sure. It's all about the urge for more power, but the big 3 have gas engines to more than adequately haul any Airstream.

Do not concur.

Best regards and safe travels

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

"You can achieve lower CO2 with a smaller engine or vehicle, you don’t need a diesel with its attendant air quality impacts."

But we are talking about tow vehicles here. Where a certain about of mass and power is needed to do the job and then the TV must be driven without the tow. Surely 15 mpg versus 9 mpg is important in terms of CO2 when towing? Or 20 mpg versus 16 mpg empty.

A certain mass isn’t a given. It is actually a negative for many aspects. And the power required to tow (vs the payload for all the things one chooses to take along) is fairly low. A 2.7 ecoboost tows up to 8500 lbs, which covers a lot of the product range Airstream sells. Now consider the empty vs towing breakdown in distance covered.

But this is all focusing on CO2 as the only criteria. The world isn’t that simple. We need to collectively reduce CO2 emissions, but many of us who live in urban areas (in particular) also care about air quality (as do many others who don’t live in urban areas)

[Daquenzer]

Unless one is driving and towing many months of the year the reason to spend money on a diesel really goes down considerably. The fuel economy advantage is not offset by the cost of the diesel, maintenance costs, and up front costs. So if one buys a diesel it is for other reasons. It’s not to “save” the earth or economics. It might be for safety issues, but maybe not. If I was pulling numerous months of the year a diesel could be reasonable. But if someone is like me and only towing maybe a month or maybe 2 a year it is just not reasonable via economics. And of course if I was constantly towing in the mountains maybe a diesel would be best. But I tow in the Midwest. My Ecoboost has plenty of power. And again if payload is an issue for some (it isn’t for me) that might a different issue. But again one can solve much of the payload issue by putting some things in the trailer or just getting a gas 3/4 ton.

But then some people just like a diesel because it’s got all that torque, etc. Then go for it. But don’t give people the impression someone has to have a diesel, because that’s just not fact.

I bought a Propride hitch. Did I need it. NOPE. But I figured the extra money for a hitch that made driving more enjoyable was worth it. After all I’m driving nearly a $95,000 AS around. What’s $3,000 to make it more comfortable?

I don’t think any of us bought AS’s because they are economical (generally speaking). We did so because we like the quality of the AS.

So buying a diesel is not a necessity it is a luxury just like an AS is a luxury. If it was economics we would all stay at home and not spend all that money on TV and AS.

So will I get a diesel someday. Probably. Do I need it. NOPE.

It’s not about necessity it is purely about luxury.

So in regard to the OP. If you have the money and you want a really powerful TV then go for it. But it’s not because you have to. It’s just because you want to. And that’s OK.

But then buy a PP hitch. Kidding.

[Troutboy]

I agree with Daquenzer. The gas vehicles today will safely tow Just about any AS. It does come down to payload in my opinion. I had a JGC with a payload of 1050 and was stretched. Just boa ugh a 2018 f150 3.5 ecoboost. Payload is 1800, so a huge upgrade for me.

I looked at diesel and the bigger trucks. I drive 90 miles round trip to work. For me the F150 fit both needs, as I get 20+ mpg on that commute. And it drives very nice, quiet and smooth.

I wanted an F250 diesel, my friend has one. But not because I really needed it for towing, because I wanted it. It may be more capable/powerful and larger payload, but for my needs, an price, I went with the ecoboost. I haven’t towed yet, but I’m sure it will be great. Plus, my trailer is a 23D, so the diesel may have been overkill.

Buy what you want, why you like, as you hav many great choices, you can’t go wrong. Good luck![emoji256]

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by avionstream

I have read some of those reports, all written by media with an agenda. Wishful thinking? One of the quotes,,,dirty, filthy diesels..... Repeat something often enough and it becomes the truth.!

Haha that's funny. I'm not talking about the media. I'm talking about those in the auto industry.

Counting cars on vacation in Europe will not work.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by sbowman

Well said.

Presuming everyone buys what truck and configuration of said truck for what ever reason is there choice. Most likely same for the AS they have chosen. Spending 1k to save a penny for the long haul could be viewed as "looking w/blinders on "w/o consideration given for the "big picture". Again ones choice as to how they spend there time and monies. Think big, spend wisely, and enjoy what you have.

Best regards and safe travels

Maybe, but if I spend $70k it better have zero miles and be brand new.

[RandyNH]

Do I need a size 11 shoe, nope, I could squeeze my feet into a 10 but it wouldn't be comfortable.

Do I need to wear a helmet when I ride my motorcycle, nope I live in NH, but I do because I've seen what can happen

Do I need to pay $200+ per tire for my TV, nope I can find some for $110

For anyone who says you don't "need" have you scheduled your appointment with Andy, so that you can have your Chrysler 300 setup, because he has already demonstrated it is more than enough to tow with.

It isn't just that I "want" anything, it is research, paying attention, learning from other people's lessons and experiences, I don't "need" to place a large heavy storage box on the rear of my trailer to learn what can happen anymore than I need to find the absolute minimum specifications to accomplish one half of what I'm doing (the other half is controlling and stopping)

EDIT- just for clarification, I'm not saying anyone needs a 1 ton diesel either

[KWN306]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

Wherever yo got your information about diesels not being preferred any longer in Europe it is factually wrong. We just returned from a visit in Germany. All our family and friends are driving diesels and on the roads the fastest, biggest and newest luxury cars blowing your doors off are all diesel. Audie, Mercedes, Porsche, Renault whatever.
We were at a Christmas market in Nuremberg. While waiting for hours for my wife I entertained myself by counting cars with diesels, 6 out of every 10 was diesel and that included new models. I did that mostly out of curiosity remembering some wild eyed so called expert commenting that diesel cars are on the way out in Europe. They are not ! BTW diesel fuel is 30% less expensive there than gasoline. Their gas prices on average are 3 to 4 times higher than ours right now.

But it is real gas there is no corn oil in it.