Gas verses Diesel Tow Vehicle

[ROBERT CROSS]

"It's good to remember that all things on all the forums in the entire interwebspace are the opinions of the originators.
Thats a fact."

[mojo]

Please don't try to confuse me with facts.

I know what I like, and like what I know!

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by mojo

Please don't try to confuse me with facts.

I know what I like, and like what I know!

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” - Daniel Moynihan

It is a fact that my opinion about my diesel is bifurcated. I love the experience towing my trailer. I hate it as a daily driver.

It is a fact that I know jack squat about calculating HP/Torque on an incline where a=b/p*u

It is my opinion this reply was hilarious.

Your mileage, horsepower, or torque may vary widely. And it’s a fact that I’m ok with that. [emoji3]

[Tomzstream]

Perhaps, after 40 pages of replies, someone ought to answer the question with Maybe you are asking the wrong question?

Could it be that the future is a gas electric hybrid? Consider the upcoming 2020 GLE 450... A Gasoline INLINE 6 with 362 hp and 369 lb-ft torque AND an Electric motor with EQ Boost up to 21 hp and 184 lb-ft torque (GLE 450 4MATIC).

And it takes all the load off the engine that it can by electrifying all the stuff that used to be driven by belts!

As for efficiency, the EPA estimates are not in yet, but I suspect it will compare favorably to the GLE (or M if you prefer) 300d and ML320 CDI Diesels of yore. and if you calculate Bang for Buck (how far you can go on a Dollar of fuel) I KNOW it will be superior to the Diesel at today's prices. I also know the torque (and HP for that matter) specs are way better! 369 ft-lbs (2016 E300d), and 398 for the 6 cyl 2008 ML320 CDI vs 369 ft-lbs PLUS 184 ft-lb for a total of 553!!! Granted the electric motor is only used when you need it, but when you need it, it is there with a torque that would make any large Diesel PU owner envious.

Just sayin...

[majorairhead]

Ya'll ain't figured it out yet? GAS is the way to go UNLESS you want to go DIESEL.

See how easy that was

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by majorairhead

Ya'll ain't figured it out yet? GAS is the way to go UNLESS you want to go DIESEL.

See how easy that was

No no! Electric is the way to go unless you want to go fossil fuels.

[emoji4]

[ROBERT CROSS]

snip...."Ya'll ain't figured it out yet? GAS is the way to go UNLESS you want to go DIESEL."

See how easy that was


😘 If I want your opinion...I'll remove the duct tape. 🤫

Bob
🇺🇸

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

If I want your opinion...I'll remove the duct tape. 🤫



Bob

[emoji631]

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

How is there no emoticon for duct tape or WD40?

[GCinSC2]

FWIW, nothing. But I'm spark plug free since 2005 with over 500,000 miles combined on my two compression ignition vee hick l's and I do all the wrench work, KonW, to date.

If I ever try to describe my 2005 Dodge Ram Cummins 6 spd to anyone, it's like a Clydesdale. Kinda big, kinda slow but it's built to pull.

I guess nobody accepted finishing the math challenge.

[Tuco]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

I guess nobody accepted finishing the math challenge.

Start here, let us know how it goes. Might still be missing something, but its a good start. GL

https://www.engineersedge.com/calcul...ope-forces.htm

https://x-engineer.org/automotive-en...torque-engine/

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Tomzstream

Perhaps, after 40 pages of replies, someone ought to answer the question with Maybe you are asking the wrong question?

Could it be that the future is a gas electric hybrid? Consider the upcoming 2020 GLE 450... A Gasoline INLINE 6 with 362 hp and 369 lb-ft torque AND an Electric motor with EQ Boost up to 21 hp and 184 lb-ft torque (GLE 450 4MATIC).

And it takes all the load off the engine that it can by electrifying all the stuff that used to be driven by belts!

As for efficiency, the EPA estimates are not in yet, but I suspect it will compare favorably to the GLE (or M if you prefer) 300d and ML320 CDI Diesels of yore. and if you calculate Bang for Buck (how far you can go on a Dollar of fuel) I KNOW it will be superior to the Diesel at today's prices. I also know the torque (and HP for that matter) specs are way better! 369 ft-lbs (2016 E300d), and 398 for the 6 cyl 2008 ML320 CDI vs 369 ft-lbs PLUS 184 ft-lb for a total of 553!!! Granted the electric motor is only used when you need it, but when you need it, it is there with a torque that would make any large Diesel PU owner envious.

Just sayin...

The most efficient Hybrid will be the Diesel over Electric.
And that will be and awesome combination.
Locomotives have been driven this way for a long long time.

[GCinSC2]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

.

Locomotives have been driven this way for a long long time.

I’ll consider one if it includes those awesome air horns.

Happy Friday.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

The most efficient Hybrid will be the Diesel over Electric.
And that will be and awesome combination.
Locomotives have been driven this way for a long long time.

Not untrue.

Though in a vehicle where weight is a concern? Let's throw more heavy batts and motors on top of an already overweight drivetrain?

The marketing for this oxymoron would be interesting. As a modern vehicle or retro steampunk? Clean vehicle or still dirty but a little cleaner.

To your point, I could see this niche on long haul commercial trucks where weight concerns are minimized.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

The most efficient Hybrid will be the Diesel over Electric.
And that will be and awesome combination.
Locomotives have been driven this way for a long long time.

We are confusing series hybrids and parallel hybrids here. Two different concepts.

The series hybrid in the locomotive is there to handle starting from a dead stop. It is less efficient at steady state than a direct drive because of efficiency losses in the generator and traction motors. And it is further compromised by the lack of regenerative braking, as a locomotive doesn’t store electrical energy. That also means it isn’t as responsive to variable load requirements.

If you mean simply that it has a diesel instead of a gasoline engine, note that locomotive manufacturers are all working on natural gas locomotives. They may use a diesel combustion cycle, but with NG as the fuel.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by pteck

Not untrue.

Though in a vehicle where weight is a concern? Let's throw more heavy batts and motors on top of an already overweight drivetrain?

The marketing for this oxymoron would be interesting. As a modern vehicle or retro steampunk? Clean vehicle or still dirty but a little cleaner.

To your point, I could see this niche on long haul commercial trucks where weight concerns are minimized.

Love the steampunk reference.

Just a note that with commercial trucks, including long haul, weight concerns are very real. Every kg of fuel tank weight, for example, was debated by the manufacturer, as it represented a reduction in cargo capacity, which related directly to less profit for the owner. Product development meetings focused on component weights, and space requirements (packaging) to a very high degree.

[rmkrum]

And also that the locomotive systems are often DC traction motors, which need regular maintenance.
Hybrid automotive systems are variable frequency 3-phase AC motor/alternator setups, with a 200 volt battery pack. Add in a lot of computer controls, and they store energy when doing regenerative braking. Locomotives do electronic braking, but dump that power into resistors and waste it.

I use a Prius for a 71-mile one way daily commute on Southern California freeways. As long as you do maintenance at recommended intervals, it will do at least 500,000 miles on the original batteries. Local dealer maintains one that gets a worse beating than mine. It’s still going strong.

[Tomzstream]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

The most efficient Hybrid will be the Diesel over Electric.
And that will be and awesome combination.
Locomotives have been driven this way for a long long time.

Indeed, it has been my preference for some time. And Mercedes IS using this diesel hybrid technology in the E-Class, IN EUROPE. Any vehicle with the "de" designation will be diesel EQ hybrid. But I don't think we will ever see diesel cars or SUVs in this country from Mercedes ever again. But don't confuse Diesel electric locos with the EQ drivetrain in the cars. It's not a diesel generator.


No, I don't see the diesel playing a roll except in the Sprinter. And I wouldn't be surprised to see the gas EQ hybrid in it someday. But consider the point I was trying to make. The inline 6 gas engine is a torquey engine, and combined with the Electric its a killer combination. What is interesting, is while the GLE450 will have a higher price, it's not as if it is a surcharge for that extra torque, like major truck manufacturers charge for Diesel. It will have more features and 4matic standard. And the real kicker is the price differential between Diesel and Gas fuel... The bang for buck (miles per dollar) has definitely leveled the efficiency and economy playing field.

[Tomzstream]

I wouldn't expect a major weight penalty from the 2020 GLE450 over the 2020 GLE350 (4cylinder). It uses a relatively small lithium battery which is stored up front (does not take up cargo space whatsoever). The electric motor replaces the starter. It is inline with the transmission and is used for regeneration as well. It can run electric only and regen mode on coasting to stops, turning off the gas engine, and to creep along. All of the engine accessory loads run off the battery power as well. EQ is a pretty cool setup.
From what I have heard, the towing capacity is unharmed as is the cargo carrying capacity (unlike older mercedes hybrids).