GAS or DIESEL ?

[AnnieD]

i have NOT selected an AS just yet.... but it might be a heavy one...maybe 10K pounds plus if i decide on a 30ft.

i am starting to think about what truck to buy. whats your opinion for either gas or diesel ? and why?

i would love a dodge ram diesel but if gas is going to be a better bet for price that would be ok as well.

what do you think?

thanks

[moosetags]

When you get into the 10,000# trailer weight range, you are most likely in diesel territory if you want a confidant tow vehicle.

Brian

[HowieE]

It all comes down to your future traveling needs and how often you trade your TV.

If you are just weekend and vacation campers that trade every 2or 3 years go with the gasser.

If you intend to do extended travel and are willing to keep your TV over 5 years go for the diesel. The diesel is not realy happy until after the first 100,000 miles

While my signature list my TV as a 97 Chevy diesel I am now towing with a 2004 Excursion diesel that I bought 2 years ago after a dealer destroyed my engine with 197,000 miles on it.

Keep one thing in mind. You have to maintain a diesel. If you are the type that neglects oil changes and considers a TV as JUST A TRUCK don't waist your money. Owning a diesel is a form of marriage.

[Gene]

It's hard to give an opinion when you haven't selected a trailer, though it seems like a longer, heavier one is your preference.

Beware recommendations from people who say you have to tow with a diesel no matter what. I think Howie sums it up pretty well, so I'll only add that the price difference between diesel and gas engines is large and it takes quite a long time to come out even despite the better mileage you'll get from a diesel.

There are some large, powerful gas engines that can pull a lot of weight so don't ignore gas engines.

Gene

[2airishuman]

hi annie'

like most of the major issues and themes,

this one is addressed regularly in the cornucopia here.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ler-46012.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...gest-4298.html

Originally Posted by AnnieD

...i am starting to think about what truck to buy. whats your opinion for either gas or diesel ? and why?...

2 lengthy threads on this combustible issue...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...rld-25248.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ser-38681.html

there are others on fuels (including bio or compost) but, MOST of the important notions are in those 2.

not much has changed recently, except NEW technology and regs mean...

the dino juice burners keep getting CLEANER.

and folks here seem to have not been so concerned about the $ of juice for awhile...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f42/...area-3527.html

the issue of TYPE of TV is also well covered (old/new, suv, van, truck, yugo, bicycle) including POLLS on this...

domestic vs import, big/small, 4x4/2x4, there is even a thread on best COLOR for a tv...

links to THAT thread and a bunch of other 'select' threads are here...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/766440-post14.html

in fact the color issue is SO important there 2 threads on this issue, here's the other one...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...cle-48737.html

there is also a thread for folks with bizarre rigs looking for 4giveness in postings...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...nal-50511.html

look IN the tv section, then hit the REPLIES/VIEWS header and ALL of these threads will be ordered UP by rank...

cheers
2air'

and...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...cks-37536.html

while the liars and fisherman post here...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f42/...cks-40195.html

it's a horn o'plenty today.

[Mikethefixit]

I agree with HOwie . If ya are gonna keep it more than 5 yrs,if you can maintain it and are never in a rush diesel is for you.
My personal favorite is Ford 7.3 liter. of which we own one with 90k miles. Chelvrolet or GMC with the Dura-Max and Allision Combo.
Third choice is Dodge which uses a Cummins Diesel. This is a great and dependable engine,when properly maintained. However they are NOISEY. The longer the wheelbase the better NO SHORT BEDS. All of the above should be 3/4 ton. with the proper towing package installed either from the factory or the dealer.
BUY BIGGER than you think you will need,better to have bought a little to much than not enough. With today's suspension's and long wheelbase they ride really good NO MATTER what brand you pick .
Best of Luck to YOU on finding the best Combo for you.

[Boondocker]

Love my diesel. One other advantage to keep in mind is that the better mileage means fewer fill ups which means more range which means more freedom of choice where you fill up and fewer times having to maneuver around the pumps.

[RickDavis]

If you are going to use it a lot,keep it a while, and maintain it diesel is the way to go.
The higher cost of the diesel fuel most of the year is more than offset by the increased fuel mileage. My 99 3/4 ton Dodge cummins averages 15 mpg with the Airstream and low 20's on the high way with out a trailer.
At present I am at 543,000 miles and no engine work.
I prefer an 8 foot bed also

[AnnieD]

thanks so much for your replies. i guess i should have mentioned what i want to do with my AS. i plan to full time in it and move around every few months with the seasons. i have no reason to be in any one place for too long.... OR i can stay longer if i feel like it. i am completely free to do as i like since i work online and can take my job with me.

i did drive a ford F150 for 17 years. it was gas but i have ALSO had diesel TOO. it was a car not a truck....so i know whats involved with the oil changes.

i want to get something i can keep for a LONG time. as long as its doing its job well.... to my way of thinking there is no reason to trade it in.
i want to feel confident that i have enough power whatever i get so that i can go anywhere i want to and not worry about anything.

now.... THAT said..... have NO plans to be ANYWHERE there is snow or ice or ANY kind of cold weather. the first sign of needing to close my windows because its TOO cool outside means i have STAYED TOO LONG in the area i am and its time to head south ! LOL

SAME goes for heat. i LOVE the desert but when its time to close windows and put the air on..... its GOODBY to THAT as well.

thats the WHOLE reason for going FULL TIME in my AS. LOL
i LOVE mobility..... but not planning to move weekly or monthly.... unless i have to.
just when the weather changes.

so thats my plans... but as far as the size AS i get. i am STILL not sure.
might be a 25ft classic.... thats STILL 8K lbs.
chances are i will get something bigger than smaller. but.... i am still not sure what i want yet.

and dont worry.... i am not getting a TV till i buy the AS.

THANKS so much for your input.
if you have more to say.... please do.

[Airstream01]

I'm partial to Diesel. Its just so effortless to tow with. And of course, the noise is extremely manly.

[richie rich]

Have you considered a vintage 30' a/s? They weigh about 5,000 lbs. If you've had a F150 for 17 years,upgrade to 3/4 ton Suburban with a big block. Sounds like you move seasonally and your mileage and maintenance are average. These choices could be keepers,maybe for 17 years more,and think of the savings. Go gas!

[AirsDream]

Couple of thoughts from one who has owned a bunch of both:

Either will do the job if outfitted properly, though if you're thinking 25 foot and up, probalbly ought to at least consider a 3/4 tonner due to heavier duty brakes, suspension, ring gears, etc. You might not need it, but it might make for a happier, more relaxed tow.

In either case, and whatever brand t/v you buy, get the biggest, most extensible, etc. tow mirrors your brand makes. You will never regret it. Ditto factory built-in brake controllers; they are wonderful ... unless you have Kodiak discs on the trailer; I think I've heard that they don't interface without some mods.

Diesel will get better mileage, especially under tow, and the extra torque at low end is very nice ... but they're a lot more expensive, and for quite a while the price of diesel has been higher than regular gasoline. You probably won't recognize any real savings on fuel (if ever) unless you own it 200k miles plus.

Diesels are SLOOOOOOW to heat up, so if you plan to spend any time at all in cold country (sounds like you don't want to ...), get seat heaters. Also, at least in my experience, they don't get fully broken in until 60k-75k miles, so at the outset the fuel mileage is poorer than later on.

Before you buy, TALK for a while with someone who owns one of what you're considering - they can tell you the quirks that the dealers don't / won't. No terrible surprises that way. That goes for both trailers and tow vehicles.

Good luck!

[AnnieD]

Originally Posted by AirsDream

Couple of thoughts from one who has owned a bunch of both:

Either will do the job if outfitted properly, though if you're thinking 25 foot and up, probalbly ought to at least consider a 3/4 tonner due to heavier duty brakes, suspension, ring gears, etc. You might not need it, but it might make for a happier, more relaxed tow.

In either case, and whatever brand t/v you buy, get the biggest, most extensible, etc. tow mirrors your brand makes. You will never regret it. Ditto factory built-in brake controllers; they are wonderful ... unless you have Kodiak discs on the trailer; I think I've heard that they don't interface without some mods.

Diesel will get better mileage, especially under tow, and the extra torque at low end is very nice ... but they're a lot more expensive, and for quite a while the price of diesel has been higher than regular gasoline. You probably won't recognize any real savings on fuel (if ever) unless you own it 200k miles plus.

Diesels are SLOOOOOOW to heat up, so if you plan to spend any time at all in cold country (sounds like you don't want to ...), get seat heaters. Also, at least in my experience, they don't get fully broken in until 60k-75k miles, so at the outset the fuel mileage is poorer than later on.

Before you buy, TALK for a while with someone who owns one of what you're considering - they can tell you the quirks that the dealers don't / won't. No terrible surprises that way. That goes for both trailers and tow vehicles.

Good luck!

thanks ...that all sounds very good. i will keep it all in mind when i get round to getting a TV after i have decided on a AS.

i sold my F150 in 1997 and untill last year had a diesel car. now i am driving a gasoline car again and i do miss the diesel.... BUT i dont miss the price of it. ( i dont mind the noise of a diesel engine...in fact i like it) . the truck i buy to tow will be my daily driver when i get to my destination ... every few months.

and as far as seat warmers go.... like i said..... when i cant keep my windows open for fresh air..... then i will be LONG gone from that location.
so... seat warmers are not even something i would EVER think about. LOL

NO temperature extremes for me after i go full time... unless for SOME reason i MUST be somewhere for some important reason.

thats my main reason for doing this.

anyway..... thanks for your response.

[AnnieD]

Originally Posted by richie rich

Have you considered a vintage 30' a/s? They weigh about 5,000 lbs. If you've had a F150 for 17 years,upgrade to 3/4 ton Suburban with a big block. Sounds like you move seasonally and your mileage and maintenance are average. These choices could be keepers,maybe for 17 years more,and think of the savings. Go gas!

i do try to move seasonally even though i am not living in an AS now. i just leave where ever i am living till the bad weather passes and then i go back.
its expensive because i am still paying rent when i am gone. when i am eventually fulltiming in an AS then i will take my house with me. LOL. and yes when i get a truck again i would like to keep it another 17 years.

and yes... will consider an older airstream... i am looking at everything now. thanks for your suggestion.

[Wingeezer]

We just bought our first diesel when we got our AS - trailer is 8400# GVW I believe.

The diesel comes at quite a price premium, but what the heck, you only go around once! It sure makes for effortless towing, Just walks up the hills and mountains like a freight train, I don't even think about it.

I'm sure we'll never put enough miles on it to warrant the extra cost, but with the better fuel mileage, and also (for now) lower price of fuel, that knocks down the extra cost somewhat.

I think too that we will see a higher resale value due to having the diesel.

Never having owned a diesel before, I was concerned (and my wife even more so) about hard starting, diesel smell and excessive noise.

None of these have been an issue at all. In fact, after a 34 career on the railroad, I sort of like the diesel rattle and wish our truck made a bit more noise.

It is a GMC, and I think maybe it is the quietest diesel - not sure about Ford but I'm sure it is quieter than the Dodge.

I would certainly buy again.


Brian

[AZ-JH]

Diesels are powerful and efficient, getting approximately 30% better fuel economy over gas. What a joy to tow with. We tow with the Dodge Cummins.

Fuel prices fluctuate throughout the year. From time to time, even if the diesel fuel price ever increases to 30% higher than gas, it will still cost the same per mile to drive: $3.00 gas or $3.90 diesel, same cost per mile. Certain times throughout the year, diesel fuel is significantly lower than gas, making it even more of a bargain to drive.

Bottom line, buy the motor you will enjoy towing with and don't be dictacted to by the normal and expected fluctuation of fuel prices.

[AnnieD]

i was pricing some TV's today. dodge is SO expensive with the cummins diesel. WOW ! i mean REALLY alot more money.

i went over to ford ... the truck guy over there was wonderful and he told me about the the kind of set up i would need and gas comes in ALOT less than diesel. even ford's diesel adds up the cost.

i would love diesel but i dont know if i can afford it.

but one thing the truck guy at ford DID say is that the gas mileage with diesel is not better than gas. i found that strange since everyone has been telling me that it does get better mileage.

he wasnt trying to sell me anything because he didnt have what i needed but..... why did he say that about diesel getting less mileage?

not sure what to think.

[Wingeezer]

Diesel engines are built to a much heavier standard than gas engines due I believe to the higher compression ratios (ie higher pressures in the cylinders) that must be accomodated.

I imagine that is the main reason thy are more expensive than gas. On our truck, when bought new, the diesel engine/allison transmission option was about a $10,000 (Can.) option.

Unless you do a very high mileage, it likely won't be a paying proposition even though you will get more on a resale.

There is no doubt you don't "need" it, especially if is going to stretch things too much for you financially. I'm very glad we got ours, but I think for us it is more of a "nice to have" item!

As for mileage compared to gas, I had always heard that you got better mileage with diesel and so far, our experience seems to be bearing that out.

We are getting consistantly better mileage with this 3/4 ton diesel full crew cab 4x4 diesel towing our trailer than we did with the smaller 1/2 ton gas truck pulling a trailer of half the weight of the AS. Probably 1-2 mpg better I would think, which I find pretty good considering the difference in weight of the two trailers.

Our last trailer was also a low streamlined design - probably moreso than the AS.

Its good that you are doing all your homework! I'm sure you'd be very happy with a diesel, but you don't "need" it! Gas will do just fine IMHO!

Brian

[richie rich]

Sounds like you want a Ford or a Dodge. There are alot of nice older 3/4 ton Fords to be had for much less than a new one. Hook that up with a lighter vintage 30' er and save all the way 'round BUT be prepared to baby everything. Older rigs need repairs,and newer rigs need regular maintenance too.The difference being, the older one could be payed in full. So, your only cost is for repairs. Not repairs and monthly payments(for new). Also, gas is everywhere. Diesel is a little harder to find .

[AnnieD]

the ford truck guy told me that the 2011 F-250 is going to be avilable with a new diesel engine that ford has developed... and yes.... it will add a real preimum to the price... about the same as the current diesel engine.

depending on what AS i buy i may have to go with the gas TV.

he also told me that there was a rebate in my area as well.... where dodge told me there was nothing in rebates.

i would consider a used TV if i knew i was getting something that wasnt abused. for that reason i usually buy something new and as such... i have had good luck with the things i have owned.
i am not hard on the things i drive and i do look after my posessions.

anyway.... i am indeed doing my homework and i am SO very grateful for this site.
all you folks have been SO helpful. thanks for giving me alot to think about.
i am sure i will have loads more questions as i get further into this. LOL