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Old 12-21-2013, 12:43 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV View Post
If you want to take it to the next level, add in the value/cost of the vehicles.

Is a paid for vehicle that has no trade in value, gets 20 mpg and is driven 650 miles a week, better than a 45 MPG vehicle with a $450/Mo note?
I would say yes.
It isn't just the note- it is also the difference in insurance and license cost.
We buy/finance a vehicle when we are backed up against a wall and have no other alternative- or when upkeep and maintenance starts to average $300-350 a month-
I used to stand on my soap box and proclaim I would never have a car note. I ate those words. If you pay over $300 per month maintenance on some piece of junk you can't depend on to go around the corner you still have a piece of junk with a broken air conditioner. If you pay $350 per month for a new car, you have a new car-
Flip side- if your paid for vehicle costs $500-1000 per year in maintenance you are way ahead. My 1999 Nissan Pathfinder was averaging $450-500 per year maintenance. That was fine. It has crept up to averaging $1,500 per year in maintenance. I keep hoping maintenance costs will be less next year, but it doesn't happen. I still think it's cheaper to keep 'er- at least for now. Even a $2500 engine or transmission repair beats a $25,000 replacement car in my book.
Another option is to get a newer/more reliable daily driver and use the older car as a back up/plan B. I am currently thing about a used Lexus RX330- won't tow the 'Stream, but it will tote the family.
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Old 12-21-2013, 12:46 PM   #16
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It is funny to me that people will justify a new car purchase with fuel economy- to keep from putting $50 per week of gas in your 1973 Oldsmobile, you go get a $500 car payment on a new car to pay $25 per week in gas...huh? That just don't make no sense- to me, anyway.
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Old 12-21-2013, 02:15 PM   #17
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Effect of Typo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texasdiver View Post
...

You have two vehicles that you drive equal distances each year; a truck that gets 10 mpg and a car that gets 20 mph. You want to achieve the greatest gas savings but you can only afford to replace one vehicle. Which choice will save the most gasoline?
...
If the typo was also on the final exam, then the answer would be insufficient information. Was it on the exam, and did anyone question the information?
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Old 12-21-2013, 04:31 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by nickmeloy View Post
If the typo was also on the final exam, then the answer would be insufficient information. Was it on the exam, and did anyone question the information?
The exam was correct. I typoed when I typed it into this forum posting screen on my iPad
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Old 12-21-2013, 05:13 PM   #19
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But for arguments sake, if you are still using the other vehicle the same amount, wouldn't B be the better choice?

Example:
Replace A; Ave of 15mpg & 20mpg per number of miles
Replace B; Ave of 10mpg & 50mpg per number of miles
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Old 12-21-2013, 07:30 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Grrrwolf View Post
But for arguments sake, if you are still using the other vehicle the same amount, wouldn't B be the better choice?

Example:
Replace A; Ave of 15mpg & 20mpg per number of miles
Replace B; Ave of 10mpg & 50mpg per number of miles
You can't average them because the relationship is not linear. Fuel consumption goes up geometrically as you approach zero and at zero mpg your fuel consumption becomes infinite.

For example,

The 10 mpg vehicle drives 100 miles and uses 10 gallons
The 50 mpg vehicle drives 100 miles and uses 2 gallons

You have used a total of 12 gallons to drive 200 miles. Your combined fuel economy is therefore 16.67 mpg (200 miles divided by 12 gallons) and not 30 mpg which is the average of 10 and 50.
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Old 12-21-2013, 08:04 PM   #21
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That cleared things up. Now I feel much better about my 12 mpg daily driver
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Old 12-21-2013, 09:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texasdiver View Post
...there is a huge law of diminishing returns when it comes to gas mileage. We and the media are obsessed with mileage at the high end...thinking that it is meaningful for example if the new Prius gets 55 mpg instead of the 50 that the old one gets. When the real savings are to be had with vehicles at the other end of the range.
This is why Canada has gone to rating cars in terms of L/100 km instead of miles per gallon. Personally, I still think in terms of miles/US gallon, because that's the information the computer in my truck and Prius give, but L/100 km does make more sense for comparison. I rewrote your question with the mpg converted to the equivalent L/100 km (rounded to the nearest whole number).
You have two vehicles that you drive equal distances each year; a truck that uses 24 L/100km and a car that uses 12L/100km. You want to achieve the greatest gas savings but you can only afford to replace one vehicle. Which choice will save the most gasoline?

A. Replace the 24 L/100km truck with a new 16 L/100km truck
B. Replace the 12L/100km car with a new 5L/100km car
C. Both choices will save the same amount of gasoline
D. It is impossible to know from the information given.

Now you can see at a glance that for a distance of 100km you will save 8 litres by replacing the truck, but only 7 litres by replacing the car.
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Old 12-21-2013, 09:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m.hony View Post
It is funny to me that people will justify a new car purchase with fuel economy- to keep from putting $50 per week of gas in your 1973 Oldsmobile, you go get a $500 car payment on a new car to pay $25 per week in gas...huh? That just don't make no sense- to me, anyway.
Precisely why I am towing with a '99 C3500 DRW. Getting same gas mileage as newer trucks and no payments.
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Old 12-25-2013, 11:51 AM   #24
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More discussons about economy on Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum - EcoModder.com. As stated above, the assumptions underlying "economy" are what matter. Americans tend to think the cost of car is the combination of monthly finance note and fuel cost. That site allows one to examine this kind of question from many approaches. There are some threads in re TT's, directly and indirectly.

As to TT/TV combinations, one needs both time and distance for calculations: How many years will each be kept, and over how many miles? Bring it down to a divisor of nights aboard the TT for baseline understanding.

I assume the OP already reads Tom Murphy on his site Welcome to Do the Math for great discussions and investigations on energy useage. For vehicles it is the tried-and-true CPM that matters most (cents per mile).

For, then, one looks at embedded costs (for our purposes, TT & TV) to gain a fuller understanding of "nights aboard". KwH, propane use, etc are all to be factored as cpm, as is ground/utility rental.

Tow vehicle fuel cost is open to change, but correct vehicle specification at the outset is the key. And, the cost of used versus brand-new. Correct vehicle spec and reasonably low purchase price trumps most initial FE considerations over the long term. Combined rig (articulated vehicle, as per SAE) stability is the final trump. Longevity flows from that, thus economy.

.
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