Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-31-2011, 07:46 AM   #1
Rivet Master
 
r carl's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Lin , Ne
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,056
Gas, Diesel, 6-speeds

With the popularity of 6 speeds now, rear end ratios is less critical now and with 400hp gas engines available now, I am thinking diesel towing advantage is less now. Diesel mileage went down and maintanance went up some it seems nowday's. Gas engine maintanance went down and mileage and life went up I think. I wonder what the mpg difference between the 2 is on the new 2011 trucks?
__________________

__________________
r carl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 08:57 AM   #2
Rivet Master
 
Naper's Avatar
 
2017 30' Classic
Loretto , Ontario
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 504
I dont know about the difference in MPG, but a new diesel F250 is $10,000 more than the same truck with a 6.2 gas engine.
Assuming gas and diesel sell for the same price say $3.50 a gallon, and a gas truck gets 10 mpg a diesel gets 15 mpg ( a .07 per gal saving ) you will have to drive over 140,000 miles to pay back the $10,000.
__________________

__________________
Naper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 09:02 AM   #3
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,403
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naper View Post
I dont know about the difference in MPG, but a new diesel F250 is $10,000 more than the same truck with a 6.2 gas engine.
Assuming gas and diesel sell for the same price say $3.50 a gallon, and a gas truck gets 10 mpg a diesel gets 15 mpg ( a .07 per gal saving ) you will have to drive over 140,000 miles to pay back the $10,000.
Add in DEF and additional maintenance over gassers, and the break even is closer to 200,000 miles.
__________________
dznf0g is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 09:08 AM   #4
Rivet Master
 
Naper's Avatar
 
2017 30' Classic
Loretto , Ontario
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 504
Sorry its .07 per mile saving
Anyway the point is there isnt much savings, if any. No question the diesel pulls better, but is it worth the price.
__________________
Naper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 09:13 AM   #5
Maniacal Engineer
 
barts's Avatar
 
1971 25' Tradewind
Menlo Park , California
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,223
Images: 1
Blog Entries: 4
Depending on how long it takes you to drive the 140k miles, the diesel may well be worth $10k more than the gas truck at that point. If you maintain and hang on to your vehicles, the diesel will be running well long after the gas truck needs major engine work - which its low blue book might well indicate as uneconomic.

If you do a lot of towing/hauling, diesel trucks make sense.

- Bart
__________________
Bart Smaalders
Menlo Park, CA
http://tinpickle.blogspot.com
http://smaalders.net/barts
barts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 09:37 AM   #6
Chief Chili Cook
 
newroswell's Avatar
 
2010 30' Flying Cloud
Bakersfield , California
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 738
It's $8000 on the sticker, but who pays sticker? I found all thee dealers more willing to deal on the diesels than their gasers when I was buying. At the F250 store they had 37 diesels and 6 gas. My own calculations has the break even way lower than 140,000 miles. The prepaid service plan for all scheduled maintenance (filters, lubs, even DEF tank top off) for 7 years was discounted to $1700 for the diesel and $1450 for gaser. That's any dealer service center nation wide.

The gas truck is a great choice and hard to beat though. But make sure you're working with real numbers if your buying what your spread sheet tells you to.
__________________
newroswell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 09:48 AM   #7
Rivet Master
 
Naper's Avatar
 
2017 30' Classic
Loretto , Ontario
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by newroswell View Post
It's $8000 on the sticker, but who pays sticker? I found all thee dealers more willing to deal on the diesels than their gasers when I was buying. At the F250 store they had 37 diesels and 6 gas. My own calculations has the break even way lower than 140,000 miles. The prepaid service plan for all scheduled maintenance (filters, lubs, even DEF tank top off) for 7 years was discounted to $1700 for the diesel and $1450 for gaser. That's any dealer service center nation wide.

The gas truck is a great choice and hard to beat though. But make sure you're working with real numbers if your buying what your spread sheet tells you to.
I guess Ford has different prices for different areas. Here its $10,000 plus tax. Based on the numbers its over 140,000 miles. Again this makes a lot of assumptions. The big thing not concidered is trade in value. The diesel will be worth a lot more down the road.
__________________
Naper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 09:56 AM   #8
Chief Chili Cook
 
newroswell's Avatar
 
2010 30' Flying Cloud
Bakersfield , California
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 738
Ah! Didn't see you're in Ontario! Pricing and dealers willingness to discount will probably be a lot different there.
__________________
newroswell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 10:15 AM   #9
4 Rivet Member
 
au_ee's Avatar
 
2007 31' Classic
Pulaski , Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 261
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Add in DEF and additional maintenance over gassers, and the break even is closer to 200,000 miles.
The Cummins engine in the 2011 Dodge doesn't require DEF.

Maintenance on my 2002 Ford hasn't been any greater than I've experienced with gas engines although the oil changes are more expensive because of the quantity required. However, it has been much more reliable than the GMC truck (gas) that I replaced it with.

Although the gas engines now have great hp, they still don't compare with the torque of a diesel which is what you need when towing, especially on steep grades. A turbo diesel will also maintain its power and torque in high altitudes.
__________________
Steve & Beth
TAC AL-4
AIR 22763
07' Classic 31, 11' Dodge 3500 Cummins
au_ee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 10:21 AM   #10
Rivet Master
 
Naper's Avatar
 
2017 30' Classic
Loretto , Ontario
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by newroswell View Post
Ah! Didn't see you're in Ontario! Pricing and dealers willingness to discount will probably be a lot different there.
We pay a lot more for cars and trucks here. Our gas today is $1.25 per liter or about $5.00 a gallon.
__________________
Naper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 10:23 AM   #11
tpi
Rivet Master
 
2005 25' Safari
Trabuco Canyon , California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 866
Images: 2
I have 99 F250 I bought new. Even at its current age I'll recover at least half of the diesel premium when I go to sell it. The engine has been perfect, not one repair. I'd keep it forever, except every year I get a little more anxious it will break down on the road due to age.

That said I think I'll go to gas engine on next truck. The gas engines have much more power than they did in 99 combined with the six speed automatics with low first gear to get it moving. The ecoboost concept is interesting, with lots of low end torque due to turbocharging and direct injection. The 150 size trucks grow more and more capable each year. The emission control system on gas engines in essence has been used for decades, is well tested, and is relatively simple. And here, gas is frequently 30 cents/gallon cheaper than diesel. Hopefully one of these new gas trucks will give me 13 MPG towing at 60 MPH vs. my current diesel at 15 MPG.

I'd still get a diesel if I was out towing a lot more than I do. But I tow 5-7K miles per year.
__________________
tpi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 10:39 AM   #12
Moderator
 
moosetags's Avatar

 
2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
2012 23' FB Flying Cloud
2005 25' Safari
Santa Rosa Beach , Florida
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,762
Images: 5
I am in the process shopping for a new diesel tow vehicle for Lucy. I would have preferred to stay with gas, but have decided that there is not a gas engine available that can handle the load of a 2800# pop-up truck camper in the bed and pulling Lucy's 7400#.

I have crunched the diesel/gas numbers extensively, and have come up with my own assessment of the gas/diesel operating costs.

My figures are indicating that the break even point is at 63,000 miles. I came up with this as follows:

GASOLINE - 63,000 miles @ 9 mpg @ $3.60/gal = $25,200

DIESEL - 63,000 miles @ 15mpg @ $4.00/gal = $16,800

The difference is $8,400 which is the exact MSRP cost of the Duramax/Allison option on GM trucks.

I realize that servicing the Duramax is more costly, but the service intervals are greater. This may not make up the difference entirely, but it does help.

Plus, I feel that I really make up the difference in the long run, as at 126,000 miles, I will be $8,400 ahead on the fuel costs. This should more than make up for any additional maintenance costs. Additionally, I will have a truck that is worth substantially more than the gasoline version of the same truck.

Brian
__________________
SuEllyn & Brian McCabe
WBCCI #3628 -- AIR #14872 -- TAC #FL-7
2015 FC 25' FB (Lucy) with HAHA
2005 Suburban 2500 Quadrasteer (Olivia) & 2018 Silverado 2500 (Lillian)
moosetags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 11:29 AM   #13
Rivet Master
 
crispyboy's Avatar
 
1994 30' Excella
alexandria , Kentucky
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,655
Images: 3
Moosetags,
The newer diesel engines are going to require as much maintenance or more than a gas engine. You probably don't want to go any farther than 5,000 miles on an oil change due to the emissions systems. The EGR valves used on diesel engines put a lot of soot back into the crackcase along with the potential for fuel dilution of the oil. Pre-emission diesel engines did not have this problem and you could go extended maintenance intervals. I would look up this info on maintenance intervals gas/diesel and crunch the numbers.

The gas/diesel debate continues but there are less arguments for going diesel unless your pulling big loads like you anticipate or drive a heck of a lot of miles.
__________________
Steve, Christy, Anna and Scout (Border Collie deceased 11-30-2016)
1994 Classic 30'11" Excella - rear twin
2009 Dodge 2500, 6 Speed Auto, CTD, Quad Cab, Short Bed
Hensley with adjustable stinger
WBCCI # 3072
crispyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 11:33 AM   #14
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by moosetags View Post
II have crunched the diesel/gas numbers extensively, and have come up with my own assessment of the gas/diesel operating costs.

My figures are indicating that the break even point is at 63,000 miles. I came up with this as follows:

GASOLINE - 63,000 miles @ 9 mpg @ $3.60/gal = $25,200

DIESEL - 63,000 miles @ 15mpg @ $4.00/gal = $16,800

The difference is $8,400 which is the exact MSRP cost of the Duramax/Allison option on GM trucks.


Brian
Brian,

I applaud your research and comparisons, but based on my average mileage with my Duramax/Allison, you are computing this on data that has not been my findings. I average more like 12-13 MPG while towing, and although it's still better than most gas rigs towing the same weight, I've never gotten 15 MPG towing.

You might get that much if you drive 45 MPH, but I can't do that. I drive 65 if the road will allow, and I've tried driving slower at 55, and my mileage does not improve because the truck does not get into 6th gear until about 62MPH.
__________________

__________________
Regards,
Steve
SteveH is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
used rv A DIESEL LOADED AIRSTREAM SLIDE FREE DELIVERY Sused rv A DIESEL LOADED AIRSTR eBay Watch Airstreams on eBay 0 03-15-2011 02:50 PM
used rv A DIESEL LOADED AIRSTREAM SLIDE FREE DELIVERY Sused rv A DIESEL LOADED AIRSTR eBay Watch Airstreams on eBay 0 01-24-2011 08:40 PM
2010 Ram 3500 MegaCab - Took the Diesel Plunge! Freeheel Tow Vehicles 9 01-18-2011 08:19 PM
How can I fill my US Ali gas bottles with LPG in the UK??? shinny67 LP Gas, Piping, Tanks & Regulators 7 01-14-2011 10:42 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.