Gas, Diesel, 6-speeds

[tpi]

How about a Ford V-6 with the "Hybrid Technology" as I like to say - or in Ford speak "Eco-Boost"...

Thats exactly what I'm looking at. Maybe give it a year to get the kinks out of it. There's one locally with the Max tow package, am going to check it out.

I don't think any potential wear limitations on the small V6 would be a problem for me because of the anticipated low mileage even at 10 years. Love the fact the torque is ample and available at low RPM. Want to find out how well the turbocharger compensates for altitude on the eco boost.

[au_ee]

Originally Posted by tpi

Thats exactly what I'm looking at. Maybe give it a year to get the kinks out of it. There's one locally with the Max tow package, am going to check it out.

I don't think any potential wear limitations on the small V6 would be a problem for me because of the anticipated low mileage even at 10 years. Love the fact the torque is ample and available at low RPM. Want to find out how well the turbocharger compensates for altitude on the eco boost.

Don't expect the ecoboost to last very long, especially towing in the mountains. The batteries will run out of charge and you will be left with just the gas engine for the remainder of the hill or mountain. My prius does great if the hills are short like those here in Alabama. I drove a rental prius out west and on those longer uphill grades I was left with just the gas engine for the latter part of the hills!

[Silver Otter]

Abundant thanks to all of you for the informative dialog. We, too, need a new TV. The 2010 Dodge 2500 HD 6.7l diesel I test drove today rode rough but quiet. The dealer tells us the 2010 is much quieter than 2009 and earlier. Does anyone have experience to bear this out? I ask because I'd like to buy "used" rather than "new" for the cash I have.

[JFScheck]

Originally Posted by au_ee

Don't expect the ecoboost to last very long, especially towing in the mountains. The batteries will run out of charge...

My friend - the "EcoBoost" technology is all engine - no batteries invloved...

[newroswell]

Ya wouldn't get too far on that one 12v starting battery either! Ecoboost is a Direct-injection, turbocharged, V6 engine, not a hybrid gas/battery power plant.

What the Inside of a Tortured Ford EcoBoost V-6 Looks Like - PickupTrucks.com News

[JFScheck]

Originally Posted by tpi

Want to find out how well the turbocharger compensates for altitude on the eco boost.

The beauty of modern turbo diesel & gasoline "truck\auto" engines - the boost makes up for the lack of air at altitiude - in essence keeping you at "sea level" as well as usually providing some extra "grunt & run".

For us pilots who fly the "gas\diesel piston" engined aircraft - the turbos usually are installed just for that one purpose - to keep horsepower and torque constant - but from sea level up to rated altitude....

[SteveH]

The Ford Ecoboost is not a hybrid, but a turbo charged V6 gasoline rig.

About the mileage I quoted....folks this is an average that was computed the longhand way using real numbers, over the long haul, and not using the DIC funny numbers.

Last summer we took a trip to Alaska and back, of almost 15,000 miles. I kept every gas receipt, wrote the miles driven on that tank on the receipt, and at the end of the trip added all the fuel used, and all the miles driven, and then divided the gallons of fuel used into the miles driven, and I averaged over the entire 15K miles, 12.4 MPG, and that was towing the 25' Airstream we then owned.

Did we have some tanks with better mileage? Sure, but we obviously had others not as good also. When I hear these 15-18 MPG quotes for Diesels towing, I immediately know they are snap shots of best case conditions.

[au_ee]

Originally Posted by JFScheck

My friend - the "EcoBoost" technology is all engine - no batteries invloved...

I was responding to TPI: "How about a Ford V-6 with the "Hybrid Technology" as I like to say - or in Ford speak "Eco-Boost"...". I assumed when TPI was referring to "Hybrid Technology" it was a typical hybrid vehicle which uses both a gas engine and electric motor. Thanks for the clarification.

[JFScheck]

· BUT - there are so many other factors to consider - most importantly wind, temperature and terrain - some times the road going in one direction differs coming the opposite (I70 for example)....
· Only true test - two vehicles driving simultaneously, the same route with the same travel trailer or load.

[newroswell]

Back to r_carl's topic of the 6 speeds though, they're all awesome. You have a much lower 1st & R and a tailer top gear. The engines can find a gear easier that matches the speed & ratio needed. You still see a lot of old timers in the truck forums going crazy because they see 3.31 in the diff's and don't realize the transmission is geared lower with a new top gear.



I test drove the new 6.2L before going with the 6.7L diesel. You can definitely pull any airstream ever built with that thing. It had a nice exhaust tone also.

[Bill M.]

Greg: I have a 2007 Dodge with the 5.9 diesel. If you are going to buy a used Dodge I think one of the 2005-2007 5.9's would be a great choice if you can find a nice one. I can answer about noise. Ours is certainly quiet enough when you are in the cab. Pulls a 32' Excella just fine. Gets 15 at around 60. I have not driven 6.7L, but the information I see on the internet is that they get poor fuel milage unless you buy a programmer and eliminate the exhaust purge cycle. The older trucks do not have a exhaust brake and the new one does, so you might factor in adding that if you want one. I do not use one, but I do slow down a lot before I start down a long grade.

[crispyboy]

gheuer,
The 2010 (4th generation) Dodge trucks have changed the body style only from the previous 2007.5 - 2009 3rd generation trucks. The cab is quieter and is supposed to ride better than previous trucks due to different body mounts. Everything I have read has pointed out that it is much more refined. The frame, 6 speed auto transmission and 6.7 Cummins engine are the same because they have been proven reliable.
My daily driver is a 3rd generation 2009 Dodge CTD. I am pretty impressed with how quiet the truck is and 6 speed tranny with exhaust brake works very well. The 2007.5 and 2008 trucks had some growing pains with the regeneration cycle for emissions. There is a computer reflash done at the dealer that changes the regeneration cycle to make it friendlier to folks who only use the truck as a grocery getter.
Right now you can find some deals on the leftover 2010 models because they have upped the torque on the 2011 models. 2007.5 to 2010 trucks have 350 hp and 650 torque. 2011 trucks have upped the torque to 800. The older model has more power than you will ever use to pull any travel trailer.
PM me if I can offer you any other information.

[Eric 28]

gheuer,
I just bought a 2011 Dodge 2500 CTD,6 speed auto. It has 350 hp,and 650 torque with a 4.10 rearend. It is very quiet in the cab and outside the cab. The mid year CTD will go to 800 torque. That should be in May-June time frame. From what the dealer told me.

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by SteveH

The Ford Ecoboost is not a hybrid, but a turbo charged V6 gasoline rig.

About the mileage I quoted....folks this is an average that was computed the longhand way using real numbers, over the long haul, and not using the DIC funny numbers.

Last summer we took a trip to Alaska and back, of almost 15,000 miles. I kept every gas receipt, wrote the miles driven on that tank on the receipt, and at the end of the trip added all the fuel used, and all the miles driven, and then divided the gallons of fuel used into the miles driven, and I averaged over the entire 15K miles, 12.4 MPG, and that was towing the 25' Airstream we then owned.

Did we have some tanks with better mileage? Sure, but we obviously had others not as good also. When I hear these 15-18 MPG quotes for Diesels towing, I immediately know they are snap shots of best case conditions.

I think it is safe to say there are some “gap” years after the old emission standards for diesel-2006 and prior to the latest- 2011-that economy of diesels suffered while the manufacturers figured out how to deal with the new regulations.

Reports I read about poor diesel economy are from Folks that are driving 2007-2010 model years.

We can report 16 mpg towing the AS over tens of thousands of miles (was about 15 mpg, but started improving again last season). We don’t travel light and we cruise at either 63 mph or 69 mph depending on road. The target for a diesel for best economy should be either side of peak power (1800 RPM).
We are towing with 06 Duramax (6 spd Alli, pre emission). Folks with the latest gen (2011) are once again reporting good efficiency. Some report indicate even better than the old gens. This seems to be true regardless of brand as they all made changes in those years do to new regs.

A lot of Folks like to toss around a few pennies here/there. This ain’t something you do to save money. One good long tow with a diesel, and you’ll know there is nothing like it. This is our first diesel…I can’t imagine ever having a gasser again.

Brian, you will be very happy with your choice (s)

B

[tpi]

The ecoboost isn't a electric hybrid, as was covered up thread (and no one indicated it was). Its direct injected, twin turbo six cyl gas engine of 3.5 liters (low 200 cubic inches). It has power and torque characteristics of big block gas engines of the past, and very low RPM torque could be even better.

As one who cut automotive teeth in the '60s I find it remarkable I'm considering a 215 cubic inch six to power a pickup truck/25' 6300 pound trailer combo.

I like what I hear about power at altitude, and find that to be a big plus. I'll probably wait until some towing reports come in, but this looks like a perfect solution to my needs (50,000-70,000 miles of towing over the next 10 years).

[Silver Otter]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

Greg: I have a 2007 Dodge with the 5.9 diesel. If you are going to buy a used Dodge I think one of the 2005-2007 5.9's would be a great choice if you can find a nice one. I can answer about noise. Ours is certainly quiet enough when you are in the cab. Pulls a 32' Excella just fine. Gets 15 at around 60. I have not driven 6.7L, but the information I see on the internet is that they get poor fuel milage unless you buy a programmer and eliminate the exhaust purge cycle. The older trucks do not have a exhaust brake and the new one does, so you might factor in adding that if you want one. I do not use one, but I do slow down a lot before I start down a long grade.

Thanks so much, Bill, for your advice, kindness, and guidance. We will keep looking, and will pass on the 2010 for now.

Sent from my iPad2 using AIR Forums

[Silver Otter]

Originally Posted by crispyboy

gheuer,
The 2010 (4th generation) Dodge trucks have changed the body style only from the previous 2007.5 - 2009 3rd generation trucks. The cab is quieter and is supposed to ride better than previous trucks due to different body mounts. Everything I have read has pointed out that it is much more refined. The frame, 6 speed auto transmission and 6.7 Cummins engine are the same because they have been proven reliable.
My daily driver is a 3rd generation 2009 Dodge CTD. I am pretty impressed with how quiet the truck is and 6 speed tranny with exhaust brake works very well. The 2007.5 and 2008 trucks had some growing pains with the regeneration cycle for emissions. There is a computer reflash done at the dealer that changes the regeneration cycle to make it friendlier to folks who only use the truck as a grocery getter.
Right now you can find some deals on the leftover 2010 models because they have upped the torque on the 2011 models. 2007.5 to 2010 trucks have 350 hp and 650 torque. 2011 trucks have upped the torque to 800. The older model has more power than you will ever use to pull any travel trailer.
PM me if I can offer you any other information.

Wow, and thanks. Your AS and ours are similar. We sure don't need to buy more truck than needed, and I have to conserve the cash when I can.

Sent from my iPad2 using AIR Forums

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by gheuer

Abundant thanks to all of you for the informative dialog. We, too, need a new TV. The 2010 Dodge 2500 HD 6.7l diesel I test drove today rode rough but quiet. The dealer tells us the 2010 is much quieter than 2009 and earlier. Does anyone have experience to bear this out? I ask because I'd like to buy "used" rather than "new" for the cash I have.

The assertion is correct. My 2004 does not ride as well as a 2010. But I can install an air-ride rear suspension (not airbags) for only a few thousand dollars. The most economical Dodge Cummins trucks are 2003 and early 2004 with up to 305 HP. At 325-HP the mileage starts to go down and the expenses up . . from nothing to a little something. By 2010 (on any brand) the emissions equipment is taking a toll.

Other items may need work depending on mileage, but I bought mine with 120k on it. Had just had first brakes replaced and I put on the first set of replacement tires. Have done u-joints. Those items, along with shocks, constitute all repairs beyond normal maintenance.

Take your time in looking around. The 6.7 Cummins and six-speed auto is a great combination. Many who used to specify the manual transmission now feel it unnecessary so good is the programming on the 68RFE.

.

[vswingfield]

Originally Posted by tpi

The ecoboost isn't a electric hybrid, as was covered up thread (and no one indicated it was).

Originally Posted by JFScheck

How about a Ford V-6 with the "Hybrid Technology" as I like to say - or in Ford speak "Eco-Boost"...

That sounds an awful lot like calling it a hybrid to me.

Originally Posted by tpi

Its direct injected, twin turbo six cyl gas engine of 3.5 liters (low 200 cubic inches). It has power and torque characteristics of big block gas engines of the past, and very low RPM torque could be even better.

As one who cut automotive teeth in the '60s I find it remarkable I'm considering a 215 cubic inch six to power a pickup truck/25' 6300 pound trailer combo.

I like what I hear about power at altitude, and find that to be a big plus. I'll probably wait until some towing reports come in, but this looks like a perfect solution to my needs (50,000-70,000 miles of towing over the next 10 years).

I don't see that it is different from any other smaller engine using turbocharging to do the same job as a larger displacement engine. That's true of any supercharged (turbo or positive displacement—there are advantage and disadvantaged to both) engine of any size.

It won't even be the first turbo 215 sold. Remember the old Buicks based on their cast iron 215.

I'm not knocking F150s, I own one. Or turbocharging, I built a turbo'd '72 Plymouth Satellite Sebring with a 456, great car and a was blast to drive. I'm a huge fan of turbocharging.

I do think that when pulling a load, the economy will drop to about the same as the larger engine. The real benefits of the small engine turbo setup come when the load is reduced and the benefits of the large engine go away. Realistically, that is a lot of driving that will return greater economy. Since a lot of pickups almost never pull or carry a heavy load, it's great for a grocery getter. It is great for the fleet mileage too. Just my opinion, of course.

[tpi]

Whats weird is I'm not even considering it for the fuel economy. I agree the increase isn't that significant, on the order of about 5% over the 5.0 V8.

I'm interested for the broad torque curve and altitude compensation of power. And the fact it is set up factory with E rated tires, and I think heavier rear gears in the max tow package.