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Old 03-31-2011, 01:22 PM   #29
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· BUT - there are so many other factors to consider - most importantly wind, temperature and terrain - some times the road going in one direction differs coming the opposite (I70 for example)....
· Only true test - two vehicles driving simultaneously, the same route with the same travel trailer or load.
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Old 03-31-2011, 01:49 PM   #30
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Back to r_carl's topic of the 6 speeds though, they're all awesome. You have a much lower 1st & R and a tailer top gear. The engines can find a gear easier that matches the speed & ratio needed. You still see a lot of old timers in the truck forums going crazy because they see 3.31 in the diff's and don't realize the transmission is geared lower with a new top gear.



I test drove the new 6.2L before going with the 6.7L diesel. You can definitely pull any airstream ever built with that thing. It had a nice exhaust tone also.
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:06 PM   #31
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Greg: I have a 2007 Dodge with the 5.9 diesel. If you are going to buy a used Dodge I think one of the 2005-2007 5.9's would be a great choice if you can find a nice one. I can answer about noise. Ours is certainly quiet enough when you are in the cab. Pulls a 32' Excella just fine. Gets 15 at around 60. I have not driven 6.7L, but the information I see on the internet is that they get poor fuel milage unless you buy a programmer and eliminate the exhaust purge cycle. The older trucks do not have a exhaust brake and the new one does, so you might factor in adding that if you want one. I do not use one, but I do slow down a lot before I start down a long grade.
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:24 PM   #32
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gheuer,
The 2010 (4th generation) Dodge trucks have changed the body style only from the previous 2007.5 - 2009 3rd generation trucks. The cab is quieter and is supposed to ride better than previous trucks due to different body mounts. Everything I have read has pointed out that it is much more refined. The frame, 6 speed auto transmission and 6.7 Cummins engine are the same because they have been proven reliable.
My daily driver is a 3rd generation 2009 Dodge CTD. I am pretty impressed with how quiet the truck is and 6 speed tranny with exhaust brake works very well. The 2007.5 and 2008 trucks had some growing pains with the regeneration cycle for emissions. There is a computer reflash done at the dealer that changes the regeneration cycle to make it friendlier to folks who only use the truck as a grocery getter.
Right now you can find some deals on the leftover 2010 models because they have upped the torque on the 2011 models. 2007.5 to 2010 trucks have 350 hp and 650 torque. 2011 trucks have upped the torque to 800. The older model has more power than you will ever use to pull any travel trailer.
PM me if I can offer you any other information.
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:01 PM   #33
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gheuer,
I just bought a 2011 Dodge 2500 CTD,6 speed auto. It has 350 hp,and 650 torque with a 4.10 rearend. It is very quiet in the cab and outside the cab. The mid year CTD will go to 800 torque. That should be in May-June time frame. From what the dealer told me.
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:54 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
The Ford Ecoboost is not a hybrid, but a turbo charged V6 gasoline rig.

About the mileage I quoted....folks this is an average that was computed the longhand way using real numbers, over the long haul, and not using the DIC funny numbers.

Last summer we took a trip to Alaska and back, of almost 15,000 miles. I kept every gas receipt, wrote the miles driven on that tank on the receipt, and at the end of the trip added all the fuel used, and all the miles driven, and then divided the gallons of fuel used into the miles driven, and I averaged over the entire 15K miles, 12.4 MPG, and that was towing the 25' Airstream we then owned.

Did we have some tanks with better mileage? Sure, but we obviously had others not as good also. When I hear these 15-18 MPG quotes for Diesels towing, I immediately know they are snap shots of best case conditions.
I think it is safe to say there are some “gap” years after the old emission standards for diesel-2006 and prior to the latest- 2011-that economy of diesels suffered while the manufacturers figured out how to deal with the new regulations.

Reports I read about poor diesel economy are from Folks that are driving 2007-2010 model years.

We can report 16 mpg towing the AS over tens of thousands of miles (was about 15 mpg, but started improving again last season). We don’t travel light and we cruise at either 63 mph or 69 mph depending on road. The target for a diesel for best economy should be either side of peak power (1800 RPM).
We are towing with 06 Duramax (6 spd Alli, pre emission). Folks with the latest gen (2011) are once again reporting good efficiency. Some report indicate even better than the old gens. This seems to be true regardless of brand as they all made changes in those years do to new regs.

A lot of Folks like to toss around a few pennies here/there. This ain’t something you do to save money. One good long tow with a diesel, and you’ll know there is nothing like it. This is our first diesel…I can’t imagine ever having a gasser again.

Brian, you will be very happy with your choice (s)

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Old 03-31-2011, 05:03 PM   #35
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The ecoboost isn't a electric hybrid, as was covered up thread (and no one indicated it was). Its direct injected, twin turbo six cyl gas engine of 3.5 liters (low 200 cubic inches). It has power and torque characteristics of big block gas engines of the past, and very low RPM torque could be even better.

As one who cut automotive teeth in the '60s I find it remarkable I'm considering a 215 cubic inch six to power a pickup truck/25' 6300 pound trailer combo.

I like what I hear about power at altitude, and find that to be a big plus. I'll probably wait until some towing reports come in, but this looks like a perfect solution to my needs (50,000-70,000 miles of towing over the next 10 years).
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Old 03-31-2011, 06:46 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill M.
Greg: I have a 2007 Dodge with the 5.9 diesel. If you are going to buy a used Dodge I think one of the 2005-2007 5.9's would be a great choice if you can find a nice one. I can answer about noise. Ours is certainly quiet enough when you are in the cab. Pulls a 32' Excella just fine. Gets 15 at around 60. I have not driven 6.7L, but the information I see on the internet is that they get poor fuel milage unless you buy a programmer and eliminate the exhaust purge cycle. The older trucks do not have a exhaust brake and the new one does, so you might factor in adding that if you want one. I do not use one, but I do slow down a lot before I start down a long grade.
Thanks so much, Bill, for your advice, kindness, and guidance. We will keep looking, and will pass on the 2010 for now.

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Old 03-31-2011, 06:51 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crispyboy
gheuer,
The 2010 (4th generation) Dodge trucks have changed the body style only from the previous 2007.5 - 2009 3rd generation trucks. The cab is quieter and is supposed to ride better than previous trucks due to different body mounts. Everything I have read has pointed out that it is much more refined. The frame, 6 speed auto transmission and 6.7 Cummins engine are the same because they have been proven reliable.
My daily driver is a 3rd generation 2009 Dodge CTD. I am pretty impressed with how quiet the truck is and 6 speed tranny with exhaust brake works very well. The 2007.5 and 2008 trucks had some growing pains with the regeneration cycle for emissions. There is a computer reflash done at the dealer that changes the regeneration cycle to make it friendlier to folks who only use the truck as a grocery getter.
Right now you can find some deals on the leftover 2010 models because they have upped the torque on the 2011 models. 2007.5 to 2010 trucks have 350 hp and 650 torque. 2011 trucks have upped the torque to 800. The older model has more power than you will ever use to pull any travel trailer.
PM me if I can offer you any other information.
Wow, and thanks. Your AS and ours are similar. We sure don't need to buy more truck than needed, and I have to conserve the cash when I can.

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Old 03-31-2011, 07:14 PM   #38
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Abundant thanks to all of you for the informative dialog. We, too, need a new TV. The 2010 Dodge 2500 HD 6.7l diesel I test drove today rode rough but quiet. The dealer tells us the 2010 is much quieter than 2009 and earlier. Does anyone have experience to bear this out? I ask because I'd like to buy "used" rather than "new" for the cash I have.
The assertion is correct. My 2004 does not ride as well as a 2010. But I can install an air-ride rear suspension (not airbags) for only a few thousand dollars. The most economical Dodge Cummins trucks are 2003 and early 2004 with up to 305 HP. At 325-HP the mileage starts to go down and the expenses up . . from nothing to a little something. By 2010 (on any brand) the emissions equipment is taking a toll.

Other items may need work depending on mileage, but I bought mine with 120k on it. Had just had first brakes replaced and I put on the first set of replacement tires. Have done u-joints. Those items, along with shocks, constitute all repairs beyond normal maintenance.

Take your time in looking around. The 6.7 Cummins and six-speed auto is a great combination. Many who used to specify the manual transmission now feel it unnecessary so good is the programming on the 68RFE.

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Old 03-31-2011, 07:18 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi View Post
The ecoboost isn't a electric hybrid, as was covered up thread (and no one indicated it was).
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFScheck View Post
How about a Ford V-6 with the "Hybrid Technology" as I like to say - or in Ford speak "Eco-Boost"...
That sounds an awful lot like calling it a hybrid to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi View Post
Its direct injected, twin turbo six cyl gas engine of 3.5 liters (low 200 cubic inches). It has power and torque characteristics of big block gas engines of the past, and very low RPM torque could be even better.

As one who cut automotive teeth in the '60s I find it remarkable I'm considering a 215 cubic inch six to power a pickup truck/25' 6300 pound trailer combo.

I like what I hear about power at altitude, and find that to be a big plus. I'll probably wait until some towing reports come in, but this looks like a perfect solution to my needs (50,000-70,000 miles of towing over the next 10 years).
I don't see that it is different from any other smaller engine using turbocharging to do the same job as a larger displacement engine. That's true of any supercharged (turbo or positive displacement—there are advantage and disadvantaged to both) engine of any size.

It won't even be the first turbo 215 sold. Remember the old Buicks based on their cast iron 215.

I'm not knocking F150s, I own one. Or turbocharging, I built a turbo'd '72 Plymouth Satellite Sebring with a 456, great car and a was blast to drive. I'm a huge fan of turbocharging.

I do think that when pulling a load, the economy will drop to about the same as the larger engine. The real benefits of the small engine turbo setup come when the load is reduced and the benefits of the large engine go away. Realistically, that is a lot of driving that will return greater economy. Since a lot of pickups almost never pull or carry a heavy load, it's great for a grocery getter. It is great for the fleet mileage too. Just my opinion, of course.
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:22 PM   #40
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Whats weird is I'm not even considering it for the fuel economy. I agree the increase isn't that significant, on the order of about 5% over the 5.0 V8.

I'm interested for the broad torque curve and altitude compensation of power. And the fact it is set up factory with E rated tires, and I think heavier rear gears in the max tow package.
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:29 PM   #41
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So can we expect 12 to 15 mpg with a new diesel and 9 to 12 with a new gasser while towing?
If we go out to buy a new TV, is diesels only in pickups? I would think a suburban type TV would appeal to many folks.
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Old 03-31-2011, 08:14 PM   #42
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A few comments:

First, my experience is that diesels take a looooong time to break in but also last a long time. One of mine, now at 190,000 miles did not peak out on fuel mileage until after 65,000 miles. Today it still gets the same mileage as it did at 65,000, and uses no oil. Lots of folks report 400,000 miles or more beofre a rebuild.

Second, fuel mileage will always be better with a diesel due to the higher btu content of the fuel, but that varies depending upon summer / winter fuel blend. And it's not my reason for buying diesels ... the fuel's higher priced per gallon, maintenance can be higher, etc. I buy 'em because a.) the enormous torque advantage lets me tow whatever I want wherever I want; b.) the long-term engine durability; and c.) the extra chassis durability that comes with a 3/4 tonner. I don't really need the chassis strength for towing my little Airstream most of the time. But the Allison xmission and the much larger brakes, ring gear, etc. mean it's less likely to crap out on me at a young age.

Third, don't sell gassers short. I've got a friend who drives a LOT in 1/2 ton pickups (usually not towing) and he NEVER trades his pickups in until they've got over 200,000 miles on the clock. They are very durable these days.

Fourth, fuel mileage towing is highly speed, terrain, and wind dependent. My best trip towing ever with my '08 Duramax (500 miles with one fuel stop) averaged 15.6 mpg. That was at about 65 mph, over pretty flat terrain, with a slight tailwind most of the way. My overall average expressway speed when towing is a bit faster than that and averages 12.4. Slow down to whatever speed is about max torque on the tachometer, travel on flat land, go downwind, and all is good. Head for the mountains, speed up and tow into a snow squall, and it gets bad. No matter what the motive power source.
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