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Old 02-18-2012, 12:00 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Not Done View Post
FYI the Tundra with the TRD package has a stiffer ride than without the TRD package.
Some TRD packages come with Bilstein shocks, and more skid plates. That seems worth it. Now there are several different TRD packages and the "Rock Warrior" package has a console shifter rather than a column shifter. There's other stuff too, but those are the most important to me. The Tow package is more important. Sorting through all the options and packages is a recipe for brain damage.

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Old 02-18-2012, 12:13 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Not sure where you got your info, but it is wrong.
For 2012,

Silverado 2500

Front rotor: 13.8 X" 1.57"
Rear Rotor: 14.7" X 1.34"

Tundra:

Front Rotor: 13.9" X 1.26"
Rear Rotor: 13.6" X 0.71"

Didn't look up Ford. With rotors and heat it is all about mass and ventilation. Toyota 1/2 ton has SUBSTANTIALLY less mass than a 2500 Chevy.

HOWEVER, it is kind of a silly comparison to begin with. If you need a 3/4 ton, I wouldn't advise substituting a 1/2 ton any brand. They are not nor ever will be made for the same duty cycle.

Edit: I looked up F250 and I couldn't believe my eyes....but on three separate websites (Ford website does not provide thickness spec) this is what I found:

Front Rotor: 13.66" X 0.5"
Rear Rotor: 13.39" X 0.3"

Can that be true???????
Fords thickness are as follows on the f250




Here's the front rotor for a 2008, you'll note nominal thickness at 1.49"



And this is the rear, at 1.34":



Can't find the specs for 2011, but I'm almost positive they are identical.


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Old 02-18-2012, 12:24 PM   #73
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My understanding is that in an effort to reduce heat buildup in the rotors, manufacturers started making them thinner believing the heat would radiate faster. This seems logical, perhaps so logical that they didn't test the theory. I have been told it didn't work (rotors warped sooner) and they are going back to thicker rotors. But some companies don't change very fast and still may have thin rotors.

Our rotors warped last year and we replaced them with thicker ones.

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Old 02-18-2012, 12:32 PM   #74
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My F250 had nice big rotors and they warped severely. The pad life was great though. The Tundra at 5K miles is fine but too new to make a call on them.
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Old 02-18-2012, 12:42 PM   #75
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Excursion comments

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Originally Posted by timmaah View Post
Maybe I should give the Excursion another look. The only reason I hadn't seriously considered them was due to their age and lack of any inventory near by.

I found this 2005 that looks interesting.
Preowned-Inventory Bob Valenti Automall Mystic CT

Far from me, but I'll be down in CT next month.
Timmah,
First of all, love your user name. I hope it's from where I think it's from.
We purchased our 27FB last year locally and started looking for a TV. The PO was nice enough to tow it to a storage spot for us. After searching truck forums, this forum and Craigslist, we decided on a 2002 Excursion. If I hadn't have spent all my bucks on the AS I could have afforded a new burb with a tow package. They tell me that a new GM/Chevy with an Allison tranny and a "tow" button will solve lots of problems. But, we couldn't spend 50K and I'm partial to Diesel. Our 7.3 excursion had 195K on the clock, two owners and had been well maintained. Price was about 14K. We needed a burb or excursion 'cause we carry 6 or 7 passengers when camping. I'm happy so far with the truck but we did have to make some modifications after a scary ride over Grant's pass last summer. Going up the hill seemed to be great until I saw a trail of coal smoke behind me (high EGTs). Coming down the hill, I shifted into 2nd to slow down and only started to freewheel and the OEM tranny gauge pegged. I got the speed down to 50 from 70 with the TV brakes and heavy on the AS brakes but they were starting to shudder and fade toward the end. Pretty scary.
After our trip we spent an additional 2K for the following improvements:
Added a pyrometer (exhaust gas temperature gauge) as the 7.3 engine will dutifully pull until it melts if you ask it to. Also added a real trans temp gauge as the OEM unit seems to be reading mystical signals from outer space. (Gauges=ISO)
Replaced the front brake rotors and pads and rear pads with great aftermarket units (PowerSlot rotors and EBC pads).
Installed a DP Tuner with 80HP Econo boost and decel tunes. The econo boost bought me 4 more MPG according to the OEM MPG meter. From 12-16 towing and 21-25 not and the acceleration and shifting points are much improved. Iíll report back on real mileage after a few trips this summer.
The decel tune locks the torque converter and closes the turbo Exhaust Backpressure Valve which provides good speed holding cominí down the mountain as proven on a Christmas trip to LA over the Grapevine. Iíve been told that the banks brake provides better engine braking but the cost is about 5 times the cost of a DP Tuner. If I hauled for a living or full-timed, Iíd consider the banks option.
Next up are new Bilstein Shocks and a Hellwig sway bar.
Excursion Cons:
The early version 6.0 (2003, 2004) engine can be troublesome (that's why I went with 7.3) The late model 6.0's and 6.4s are fine and are quieter and cleaner. Check the Diesel forums.
V10 gasser is a good engine but is a gas hog towing or not.
Steering is Vague without mods. Not scary, just vague.
Tranny is weak link according to other forums (I plan to have to replace mine with a John Wood eventually)
Engine (turbo) sits back in the chassis and is somewhat covered by cab if you plan to service unit yourself.
$100 oil changes
Terrible turning radius (leaf springs in the front)
Excursion Pros:
Balances my carbon footprint (other car is a Prius)
Navistar Diesel 7.3, like the Honey Badger, just donít care what you throw at it.
Spacious inside. My friend said "The back seat is in a different zipcode". You can fit 8 comfortably with plenty of space for gear.
Comfortable seats, quiet ride. 10 Hour drives are comfortable.
Separate heater/AC for back.
Plenty of parts available (same as Ford 250 P/U)
Weight Capacity: GVWR 9950 Front GAW 4700 Rear GAW 5250 Trailer max 11000 Check out my post in another thread for towing setup details:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238/visited-cat-scales-the-numbers-are-in-17984-10.html
So good luck and do let us know what you decide!
Butters, er... ahhh.. I mean...Brad
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Old 02-18-2012, 12:53 PM   #76
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Doomsday?

Some of the reported GVW needs I see hear are ridiculous. I think you need to also decide what kind of full-timing you'll be doing. Parks? Boon-docking? Both?
The whole point of simplifying is to simplify. Wardrobe, tools, food, etc. are all part of that. You have water tanks on your trailer I assume, How much water do you need? Everyplace has water these days, you'll learn that the pre-full timing survivalist feeling will leave when you have to start packing all of that junk every time you move (i hope).
I basically rent my clothes, summer comes I go to thrift shops and buy my summer wardrobe, then I go to the next place in fall, donate those, buy cool weather clothes etc. I have gone 3 years (i am single though) without exceeding my 4500# weight (trailer and payload) self imposed limit.
It's easier to pack less than to haul more.
Oh, and definitely 4WD if you don't lots of beach camping options, mountains and muddy boon-docking spots are out.

Good Luck,
Blake
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2003 Toyota Tundra (4.7L)
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Old 02-18-2012, 02:21 PM   #77
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4wd

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Oh, and definitely 4WD if you don't lots of beach camping options, mountains and muddy boon-docking spots are out.
X2 - Brad
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Old 02-18-2012, 04:42 PM   #78
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Do not buy a pre '04 Excursion

Perry is outright wrong.

If you buy a pre 2004 Ford Excursion, you better check the plug torque every oil change (aka 3000 miles), not annually.

Mine had 36,348 miles on it when it blew. I talked to one poor guy who'd had his heads replaced under warranty 7 times. When it blew an eighth, he was past 36,000 miles and Ford told him to "get lost."

Oh, by the way, I had also bought a 7 year 100,000 mile extended powertrain warranty on my Excursion. However, they had some fine print in there that said "only damage caused by the failure of an internally lubricated part is covered..." Well guess what; the head itself was faulty; no piston flew off a rod and broke the head....it was the head itself. Even though I was only 348 miles beyond the bumper to bumper warranty but well within the extended powertrain warranty, Ford told me to pound sand.

The only fix is to install ten Timesert head inserts (infinitely better than a helicoil...which is still better than Ford's original design). The inserts are only $8 each, but the repair kit cost $370 (in 2005). I have one of these kits, so if your Triton blows a plug and you want it fixed right, give me a call.

Do not even consider an Excursion if it's older than an '04. The only exception would be if it had a Powerstroke diesel.
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Old 02-18-2012, 05:45 PM   #79
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Well my 2000 Excursion has over 100K on it and the original plugs were still in it when I bought it a couple years ago at 94k. Maybe another good reason to never buy anything new. Let the first owner deal with all the crap. A friend has a 2001 Excursion with about the same miliage on it and he has had no problems. Many times dealers don't know what they heck they are doing as well as mechanics in general and anyone in the service industry. I do everything myself for a reason. The few times I have had someone else do work, they screwed it up and they charged me for it. I can screw stuff up and it is free. The newer V10's have problems also with plugs breaking when you try to remove them. I am sorry you had a bad experience.

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Old 02-18-2012, 06:09 PM   #80
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Well my 2000 Excursion has over 100K on it and the original plugs were still in it when I bought it a couple years ago at 94k. Maybe another good reason to never buy anything new. Let the first owner deal with all the crap. A friend has a 2001 Excursion with about the same miliage on it and he has had no problems. Many times dealers don't know what they heck they are doing as well as mechanics in general and anyone in the service industry. I do everything myself for a reason. The few times I have had someone else do work, they screwed it up and they charged me for it. I can screw stuff up and it is free. The newer V10's have problems also with plugs breaking when you try to remove them. I am sorry you had a bad experience.

Perry
No excuse for what ford did here Perry. Snap On even made a repair kit to fix the ford heads. 3/8" of aluminum threads is not enough, hell a briggs and stratton engine has more than that! Problems usually started when you replaced the plugs for the first time at 100k, quite convenient for ford, out of warranty and money for the dealers.
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Old 02-18-2012, 06:38 PM   #81
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It is easy to screw up aluminum heads. If the plugs are not changed correctly they will come out. Fords of that era were a lot more sensitive about how the plugs were changed. I was lucky to get one where the plugs had not been changed. I am not saying Ford was wise in only putting 4 threads in an aluminum head.

Perry
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:00 PM   #82
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Everyone,

I apologize if I seemed harsh earlier. I was going to PM you, Perry, but figured it was better to just broadcast it to everyone. I didn't mean to seem too hard, and am sorry if I did.

If I had an Excursion that had never done this, I wouldn't have been so passionate about it. As my luck goes, I must have gotten a lemon Well, I laugh about it now anyway....

The truth is, the Excursion was one whale of a nice vehicle! I really liked it! Mine was a Limited and had the third row suit; must have taken 20 cows to provide all the leather for that bad boy. It had a rockin' stereo, dual climate controls, heated seats, was about unstoppable in snow, and it did tow nicely. Before I got my Airstream (and then later on my Avion) I borrowed my dad's Terry (white stick built box...) 26 footer with slide out to see if we'd like RVing. The Ex pulled that thing like it wasn't back there.

I also got really good gas mileage with it. If I drove normally, I could get 16mpg with it. If I really really watched it and took it easy, I could do a little better than 17mpg. My old '86 Suburban that the Ex replaced was lucky to ever see 15mpg... I got 10.5 towing with it.

It was one nice truck. And, I would have forgiven FoMoCo if they'd treated me right. Everybody builds a car once in a while that has problems. What really set me off was the way Ford treated me. Now, my one buddy who is a Ford Man through and through said it was that dealership, not Ford itself, that hosed me. Maybe he was right. I had bought my Thunderbird SC from the same dealership and they treated me right on it, even when it needed some maintenance work under warranty (I still have my old SC and drive it daily...I've had the car for 18 years....).

What really got my goat was that it blew up on me three hours from home on our way to Disney World for a surprise vacation for my five year old daughter. The guys at the Ford dealership there (Richmond, VA) were really cool. They said they were sure it'd be covered under my extended warranty, and further, being only 348 miles beyond bumper to bumper, it should be covered. They offered to give me an Econoline van to run down to FL with and I could pick up the Ex on the way back a week later and all would be well. BUT....I called the warranty service before letting the Ford dealer there have it, and they told me it was NOT covered until after an adjuster looked at it. So I bagged the vacation. We got another plug and coil pack stuck in it enough to get it home. Once I took it back to my local Ford dealer, they managed to wreck what was left of the threads pulling it apart for the adjuster. The adjuster guy told me "...forget it. I've seen a hundred of these things do this. It's a known defect. We won't cover it." That's when I realized that my "extended powertrain warranty" was not through Ford, as they had led me to believe, but rather through some third party outfit. After a couple of weeks of haggling, I wound up hauling the thing home on a flat bed dirt track race car trailer behind my dad's diesel Ram. I bent the race car trailer's frame in the process because it was made for a 3000lb car and not a 7000lb monster. But anyway, I ordered the kit from Timesert and fixed the car myself.

And, the truth it, it was fixed right, proper, and permanently. I probably should have just done the Timesert fix on all ten cylinders (mine blew the passenger side one, second from the rear....) and the car would have been fine for years to come. But I was so mad at the way Ford treated me that I traded it on a Dodge diesel crew cab and have been driving the Mopar ever since. The guy that bought my Ex from the dealership I traded it to...drove it for many years with no problems. Yep, I can be a hothead sometimes

So again, sorry if I seemed too harsh. If I had an Ex and it had never done any of this evil, I'd be wondering about the guys badmouthing them too. It's just that I got hosed more by Ford on this one than any other car in my life. And I've had quite a few Ford's.... Well anyway, every maker has their ups and downs. I would consider buying another Ford...if they sent me an apology letter and a big discount coupon for my troubles

Take care and see ya on the road!
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:13 PM   #83
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Many years ago I had a 1990 Nissan 4 cyl. pickup with a similar problem. The most rear plug never blew out; it would get loose. When I changed plugs, some broke taking them out. Late in the truck's life with me I couldn't get it out either. I tightened it down too much. So I'd change three of them and the truck was going well at 145,000 miles when I sold it. It did have a minor rod knock for about 20,000 miles. It really was a great truck. We did a lot of 4 wheeling in it and driving through deep Colorado snows. It never got stuck. I don't think I spent more than $400 on it. My next truck was a Toyota and we've bought Toyotas ever since.

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Old 02-18-2012, 07:45 PM   #84
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My understanding is that in an effort to reduce heat buildup in the rotors, manufacturers started making them thinner believing the heat would radiate faster. This seems logical, perhaps so logical that they didn't test the theory. I have been told it didn't work (rotors warped sooner) and they are going back to thicker rotors. But some companies don't change very fast and still may have thin rotors.

Our rotors warped last year and we replaced them with thicker ones.

Gene
Well, sorta. Thinner doesn't dissipate heat better, more mass does. The manufacturers made them thinner to reduce unsprung rotating mass to gain fuel economy...but you are absolutely right...it didn't work too well. they warped due to heat in some cases, but most pulsated not due to heating, but they were so light that if the lugs were not torqued absolutely equally, the rotor would not be "flat". The resulting unequal contact with the inner and outer pads as the rotor rotated eventually caused a thickness variation in the rotor and pulsation of the pedal followed.

All mfrs, fell victim to this philosophy. Thank goodness the trend has gone back to meaty rotors and drums, where appropriate over the last 10 years or so. Mileage increases are found elsewhere. Sometimes simple physics will not be cheated!
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