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Old 02-21-2012, 09:39 PM   #141
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... Or just get one of these. I think it is diesel. Gas mileage is irrelavent.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop...RmT0iRic&gl=US
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:47 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by JimGolden
Allow me to muddy the waters a bit further
Anyway, you'll be hard pressed to beat a Cummins diesel. My Ram is a big hulking beat with tons of power, and it gets 30% better economy than my old half ton Suburban did. Diesels rock, and Cummins diesels are like Heavy Metal if the rest are just rock and roll.
!
Hey if you want a Cummins, why not mix n match like this guy did?

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Old 02-21-2012, 10:53 PM   #143
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[QUOTE="SuperTrouper"]

Hey if you want a Cummins, why not mix n match like this guy did?

Try this link
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:00 AM   #144
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That is pretty cool!

My only point is that I get better mileage with my big truck than a 1/2 ton gasser, and i've got plenty of chassis.

The silver trailer isn't the only thing I tow either. I also have a big flat bed equipment hauler that I haul all kinds of stuff on. I also wanted something I could put a big load in the bed and not worry about it. I am very happy with my Dodge.

I also have a '70 Charger with a heavily built 440. I guess I could also drive a Smart car, but that's not for me
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:42 AM   #145
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In 1998 when I purchased a 3500 lb SOB trailer I towed with a standard Ford F250 which is like a current heavy duty 1/2 ton. It towed just fine, but in 2002 I traded for a gas F250 Super Duty Extended Cab which was considerably more heavy duty. It was amazing how much more stable the towing experience was. I felt much more comfortable driving in cross winds and in steep down hill grades. Before I got my 2005 Airstream I traded for a 2007 F250 Super Duty Crew Cab Diesel and it towed the Airstream very well and was very stable. At the end of 2011 I traded for a new 2012 F250 Super Duty Crew Cab with the new 6.7 Diesel. This truck is night and day different from the 2007. One would never know a diesel was under the hood as it is as quiet as a gas engine except for having 400 HP and 800 lb ft of torque. Also the 2012 is extremely smooth riding compated to the 2002 and 2007 and better fuel economy.

The main point I am making is that a heavy duty 1/2 ton will tow most Airstream trailers but is not nearly as stable when towing.

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Old 02-22-2012, 11:31 AM   #146
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How much does the DEF cost you and what does that stuff do to the exhaust system over time? It is like 33% Urea. It is one more system and/or additive and maintenance items drive you nuts as it is on a diesel. I am sure the 6.7 is a nice engine and truck but for me the extra maintenance costs are not worth it. Now when they get diesels to the point where they don't have to have all these gadgets to burn cleanly then I might consider owning one again. 400HP and 800 ft-lb of torque is not worth $50,000. I am going to pay my house off first.

Perry

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstalzer View Post
In 1998 when I purchased a 3500 lb SOB trailer I towed with a standard Ford F250 which is like a current heavy duty 1/2 ton. It towed just fine, but in 2002 I traded for a gas F250 Super Duty Extended Cab which was considerably more heavy duty. It was amazing how much more stable the towing experience was. I felt much more comfortable driving in cross winds and in steep down hill grades. Before I got my 2005 Airstream I traded for a 2007 F250 Super Duty Crew Cab Diesel and it towed the Airstream very well and was very stable. At the end of 2011 I traded for a new 2012 F250 Super Duty Crew Cab with the new 6.7 Diesel. This truck is night and day different from the 2007. One would never know a diesel was under the hood as it is as quiet as a gas engine except for having 400 HP and 800 lb ft of torque. Also the 2012 is extremely smooth riding compated to the 2002 and 2007 and better fuel economy.

The main point I am making is that a heavy duty 1/2 ton will tow most Airstream trailers but is not nearly as stable when towing.

Dennis
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:44 AM   #147
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Something that comes up from time to time (Dennis alludes to it in #145) is that what was called a half ton years ago and what is called one now are very different. Today's half ton trucks are much more truck. I have no idea what "half ton" means and there seem to be no standards. I used to think it meant they could take a half ton of cargo, but they can all take much more. They also ride better, handle better and have much bigger gas engines.

It is easy to think a half ton truck can't tow what it can tow because we tend to get locked into the past.

But, not the tow ratings are being standardized and many will be lower than they used to be because the manufacturers can't pull them out of a hat. Toyota has already adopted them and the Tundra didn't change much.

Gene
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:16 PM   #148
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I base what a truck can do on its drive train components. Putting a bigger engine on the same transmission, axels, and hubs does not a better truck make. How much HP and load is the axel rated for? What are the ratings of the front hubs. What is the load capacity of the wheels and tires? How big are the brakes and how many cylinders per wheel? I have found that trying to find specs on the truck manufacture's web sight is impossible. You have to go to a third party sight to get information. All you get is color and trim packages. Sometimes they don't even tell you what is in the base package. I know the average American is often not that bright, but give me a little more info other than how many cup holders it has.

Perry
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:07 PM   #149
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So the later V10 gasser in the Excursion is a solid engine? A 2005 with leather, power everything is cheaper than a 2008 Tundra. I'd also have to purchase a nice color matched cap for the Tundra.
The Excursion is a thread of its own and we have some. Use the search. They can be excellent tow vehicles but many owners believe that they are not useful for towing unless the rear suspension is modified. Aftermarket kits are available but they are costly to purchase and install. One question to ask before buying is whether these modifications have already been performed.

At the time I checked prices, the Chevrolet Suburban 2500 (which is a very similar vehicle in terms of its size and capabilities) was a better buy overall. They were produced in far greater numbers which helps with service and parts.

Quote:

Running number on gas. 20,000 miles a years at $5 a gallon. 50% time towing. Excursion at 10mpg towing / 10 mpg not. Tundra 10.5 towing, 14 not. Excursion = $10,000 in gas a year. Tundra = $8333. $1667 in favor of the Tundra.
Few fulltimers move 20,000 miles a year. I don't think your MPG comparisons are apples to apples. Gas does not cost $5 a gallon.

In practice, with any of the 25'-30' trailers you are unlikely to achieve 10 MPG with a gasoline fueled tow vehicle unless you are keeping your speeds low to boost MPG. Some people do this. I get 8 MPG at 70 MPH and relatively better or worse fuel economy on either side of that.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:19 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
Something that comes up from time to time (Dennis alludes to it in #145) is that what was called a half ton years ago and what is called one now are very different. Today's half ton trucks are much more truck. I have no idea what "half ton" means and there seem to be no standards. I used to think it meant they could take a half ton of cargo, but they can all take much more. They also ride better, handle better and have much bigger gas engines.

It is easy to think a half ton truck can't tow what it can tow because we tend to get locked into the past.

But, not the tow ratings are being standardized and many will be lower than they used to be because the manufacturers can't pull them out of a hat. Toyota has already adopted them and the Tundra didn't change much.

Gene
While there is truth to what you're saying I think that much of what is going on is that there have been horsepower increases and increases in the number of gears in the automatic transmission. As a result the power train is more capable of pulling a trailer than in the half ton trucks of the 1980s or earlier. There was in the past some artificial depression of the tow ratings to help dealers sell power train upgrades and this has been replaced by artificially optimistic numbers to try to outsell the competition.

I don't believe that the brakes, suspension, steering, and cooling systems have seen the 2x upgrade implied by the difference in tow ratings over the years.

Overall there has been a move to more stable suspension components which has indirectly helped road manners while towing in the 1/2 ton trucks. But it's helped road manners in the 3/4 ton trucks too, at least in some configurations (Ford and Dodge are still using solid front axles in their 4wd 3/4 trucks I believe).

For daily towing over the course of years the durability of the steering, suspension, brakes, and power train become important matters and it is here that a 3/4 ton truck makes the most sense.

After 5 years and 100,000 miles, half of them towing, should the OP's travel plans pan out, we would expect the Tundra to be overdue for a transmission overhaul and rear axle bearing work, both costly repairs.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:35 PM   #151
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Hopefully a few years and probably close to 20,000 miles a year. And going all over the US.. big mtns included.

What would be the rationale for leaving 500 lbs to spare? Safety or just not as harsh on the truck?
Much is made of weight while towing. I think the better approach would be to ask which tow vehicle will provide the safest, most reliable, most comfortable service. Where towing is the primary use for the truck I don't think there's a case to be made that the 1/2 ton trucks or the Nissan/Toyota "more than a 1/2, less than a 3/4" sorts of trucks are the best choice.

We encourage people with 1/2 ton trucks to get a 30' trailer. But that's because we think they'll be happiest with a 30' trailer not because it's an ideal match for the truck. Different questions.

Consider that two weeks worth of groceries and two cases of beer can total 300 pounds.

Consider that many fulltimers carry a small motorcycle or scooter.

Quote:
Our list of things to bring is not very long. We plan on living pretty simply, but the list does include things like grill and small generator..
Perhaps you have the experience to know whereof you speak.

I think it's interesting that most people who talk about simplicity usually mean that they're planning on getting rid of their TV. Simplicity is not lightweight. Cast iron weighs more than Teflon-coated aluminum. Cotton weighs more than nylon.

To barts' point people who remain in the full-timing lifestyle often develop hobbies or pastimes on the road. Travel as an end in itself loses its luster with repeated use. So whether your particular materialistic compromise tends towards golf clubs, musical instruments, sewing machines, memorabilia, photographic trinkets, or inflatable boats, it will have mass.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:49 PM   #152
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I think with a few minor modifications, you could just eliminate the tow vehicle completely:

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Old 02-22-2012, 06:53 PM   #153
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The Excursion is a bigger more capable vehicle than the Suburban. Mine has stock springs and I pull a 31 foot trailer. It has the same rear axel and transmission as the F350. Yahoos that pull a 10,000 lb trailer without load distribution are the ones that want bigger springs and we know that is not the correct way to pull a trailer. I have pulled my trailer for about 2500 miles and have had no issues with springs being too weak. The argument about 20,000 miles a year is bogus unless you use the Excursion as a commuter vehicle. I expect 5000miles a year is more realistic for a vehicle that is used for towing or a trip or two to Lowe's.

Perry


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The Excursion is a thread of its own and we have some. Use the search. They can be excellent tow vehicles but many owners believe that they are not useful for towing unless the rear suspension is modified. Aftermarket kits are available but they are costly to purchase and install. One question to ask before buying is whether these modifications have already been performed.

At the time I checked prices, the Chevrolet Suburban 2500 (which is a very similar vehicle in terms of its size and capabilities) was a better buy overall. They were produced in far greater numbers which helps with service and parts.



Few fulltimers move 20,000 miles a year. I don't think your MPG comparisons are apples to apples. Gas does not cost $5 a gallon.

In practice, with any of the 25'-30' trailers you are unlikely to achieve 10 MPG with a gasoline fueled tow vehicle unless you are keeping your speeds low to boost MPG. Some people do this. I get 8 MPG at 70 MPH and relatively better or worse fuel economy on either side of that.
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:08 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by perryg114 View Post
I have pulled my trailer for about 2500 miles and have had no issues with springs being too weak. The argument about 20,000 miles a year is bogus unless you use the Excursion as a commuter vehicle. I expect 5000miles a year is more realistic for a vehicle that is used for towing or a trip or two to Lowe's.

Perry
I'm not sure I understand this comment....are you inferring that you wouldn't put 20k miles on a vehicle unless you're commuting with it? If that's your assumption, then you're flat out wrong. We full-time, move every week (which isn't even as much as many full-timers), and we put 15k on our trailer last year doing the west coast....and put almost 20k on the TV (doing "sight-seeing" without the trailer).
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