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Old 02-15-2009, 07:53 AM   #15
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Pickups are tall, unstable and nose-heavy. It is very easy to turn one over, and even easier to have one turned over by a slightly off-center hit from a side impact.

This is one vehicle to be careful with at intersections. The weight, the weight-imbalance, the high COG, etc, all work against the vehicle in dealing with a T-bone.

Just head to any boneyard (better, police impound lot) and see what happens to the structure.
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:59 AM   #16
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It appears that they did not test any 3/4 or 1 ton heavy duty pickups and also got the Honda confused, it is not a full size pickup.
Yes, I noticed that too. It is interesting to note the undersized, unibody Honda performed as good as the best performing, full sized pickups. That's the irony of it all.
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Old 02-15-2009, 02:15 PM   #17
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Just goes to prove the point that those of us who are towing with 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks are out of touch with reality.....
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Old 02-15-2009, 02:55 PM   #18
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I'd rather be found dead in a Chevy than unscathed in a Honda.

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Old 02-16-2009, 09:15 AM   #19
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I'd rather be found dead in a Chevy than unscathed in a Honda.

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Old 02-16-2009, 09:27 AM   #20
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Crashworthiness is high on my list when buying a car or truck. ie: my 2005 F-150 and 2000 Audi S4 were both rated highly. Yes... the tests are not perfect, but they are a general indication within a class of vehicle.

There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old bold pilots.
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Old 02-16-2009, 11:04 AM   #21
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Crashworthiness is high on my list when buying a car or truck.
For us too dmac. With the bones getting older and a grandson to drive around our priorities and wants changed for our last vehicle purchase.

The list included multiple air bags, stability control, anti loc brakes etc combined with a stable vehicle.
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Old 02-16-2009, 11:42 AM   #22
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Having been a rabid car nut for decades I find it interesting at some of the comments on this thread.

Here is my perspective:

Look around you when you drive. How many 1970 and 1980 Honda, Toyotas and Nissans do you see? There are some, but you have to look for them really long and hard as they are few and far between.

Then tell me how many Fords, Chevys, Dodges you see on the roads from the same vintage. Apparently the testing folks don't test for longevity cause there are a heck of a lot more of these POS on the road that have survived crashes and other accidents. True they don't look pretty some of them, but they are still out there far more freq, that that of a number of their counterparts.

I could care less what the crash tests of some big truck are because in all reality, these trucks are going to destroy any of the majority of the smaller cars out there. I saw a wreck last year between a Suburban (non 3/4 ton) and a Chrysler minivan. The Suburban hit it at 45 miles per hour or slightly faster. While the Suburban was totaled in the sense that it would have cost more to fix than total it out, there was nothing left of the mini van nor it's occupants, whereas the Suburban driver and passengers came away with only minor injuries.

Any fool can crash a vehicle into a solid wall and claim survivability and give ratings as such, however, here in the real world when two objects collide and one object is smaller, weighs less, etc (which is more the case than not), it really is not going to make too much difference, the smaller vehicle in most cases will wind up just like the Caravan I spoke of earlier.

Though I agree side air bags and such are great, my Burb has 'em, the fact is that most of the vehicles on the road that would t-bone me can't even make it up to my floorboards. The airbags will help, no doubt, but I hardly feel I am going to get hurt when t-boned by an Accord or similar car. Suburban vs Suburban or Suburban vs Semi, it ain't gonna be pretty no matter how you slice it......but again, not as typical of a wreck as a Burb and say a Honda or econobox Chevy, Toyota, etc.

Of course some will argue survivability under extreme situations, but one has to understand that no amount of engineering is going to protect an occupant of a vehicle struck in above average situations, say like Princess Diana's Mercedes? Any car, less the Presidential tank would behave similarly. Most of us however don't drive Presidential Cadillac tanks or Mercedes like Diana was in and for the most part, most of any accidents we would see would not be to the magnitude of Diana's crash. Diana's type accidents represent maybe 2% of overall crashes, if that.

I feel completely safe in my Suburban as I do in my dad's Silverado.

Smart car, I've seen the tests and the ratings (also better than what the trucks got), but frankly I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in those tests cause real world, I'd totally run over a Smart car at 50mph. My truck would be totaled (due to repair costs) and the Smart car and it's occupant(s) in that big highway in the sky.
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:25 PM   #23
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Princess Di probably would have survived, if not walked away, if she was wearing a seatbelt. A S-Class is about as close to a tank as you get in the automotive world.

Keep in mind, you don't just die by being hit by another car. You can have a single car accident, hitting a tree or wall. In that case, those crash tests very much hold true. The survivor of the Princess Di crash was sitting in the front, wearing a seatbelt.

You can also have to swerve to avoid an accident. Hopefully you stay on the pavement - if you don't, you start to run the risk of a tripped roll over. Vehicle structure, for the most part, isn't optimized for roof crush protection. Stability control helps to prevent leaving the pavement (or your intended route of travel) and is shown to reduce the chance of death, but it's rare on heavy-duty trucks (it's starting to appear.)

So much vehicle advice here is being advocated solely for towing. Given what this forum is about, that makes sense. But towing is something that most of us do maybe a dozen weekends a year. If you full-time, or if you have a dedicated tow vehicle, great.

But otherwise, you're commuting in your tow vehicle 340 days vs. towing for 25. On those 340 days, it's preferable to have something with a shorter braking distance, or less chance of a tripped rollover, or optimized crash structure and safety equipment. The challenge is in the balance.
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:33 PM   #24
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There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old bold pilots.

This quip infers it is the human and not the vehicle that is the key to longivity. And for that I tend to agree. However I know 2 things to be inescapable.

1) No one is getting out of here alive.
2) When it is my time there won't be any thing that I have done that that will change the event.

Until then I drive with care and reason no matter what I am driving and I have 5 choices.

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Old 02-16-2009, 01:45 PM   #25
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Princess Di probably would have survived, if not walked away, if she was wearing a seatbelt. A S-Class is about as close to a tank as you get in the automotive world.
Yes mutcth. I believe you are right.

Using results from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety is probably the most accurate way of determining safety of occupants. They post accident fatalities / million ( F/M ) and relate these deaths to vehicle make and models.

Data from years 2002 to 2005 showed the vehicle with the most fatalities was the Chev Blazer (2 door) at 232 fatalities/million.

The Mercedes M class rated 14 F/M and the E class also at 14 F/M

Our mid sized Infiniti sport sedan showed 7 F/M.
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Old 02-16-2009, 03:31 PM   #26
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Yes mutcth. I believe you are right.

Using results from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety is probably the most accurate way of determining safety of occupants. They post accident fatalities / million ( F/M ) and relate these deaths to vehicle make and models.

Data from years 2002 to 2005 showed the vehicle with the most fatalities was the Chev Blazer (2 door) at 232 fatalities/million.

The Mercedes M class rated 14 F/M and the E class also at 14 F/M

Our mid sized Infiniti sport sedan showed 7 F/M.
Does this mean there have been 1 million accidents with the Infiniti? I find that incredibly hard to believe. Or is this a math calculation? Adios, John
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Old 02-16-2009, 04:34 PM   #27
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Yes mutcth. I believe you are right.

Using results from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety is probably the most accurate way of determining safety of occupants. They post accident fatalities / million ( F/M ) and relate these deaths to vehicle make and models.

Data from years 2002 to 2005 showed the vehicle with the most fatalities was the Chev Blazer (2 door) at 232 fatalities/million.

The Mercedes M class rated 14 F/M and the E class also at 14 F/M

Our mid sized Infiniti sport sedan showed 7 F/M.
WOW! Good info...that's a LOT more people driving Chevy's than SOB's.
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:23 PM   #28
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Does this mean there have been 1 million accidents with the Infiniti? I find that incredibly hard to believe. Or is this a math calculation? Adios, John
No John,not a million accidents. My understanding is the death rate per time a particular vehicle was registered for the road. To simplify it is the ratio between various vehicles that is key here.

"Rate of driver deaths per million registered vehicle years, 2001-04 models during calendar years 2002-05

Note... Two vehicles registered for 12 months each yield 2 vehicle years."


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