Ford's... Death Rattle made me Curious

[Ray Eklund]

A thread concerning self adjusting Dexter Brakes brought up another issue by Paiceman concerning different brands of 4x4 vehicles that will shimmy, violently.

I have a F350 2016 4x4 Diesel and had a short shimmy when applying brakes down a steep grade on our last trip. It was short lived and quit after braking. I thought this was due to discovering my Right Side Trailer Brakes were not functional.

After getting curious from Paiceman's response that this was an issue with Ford 4x4... I went to the Internet and was rather surprised to hear any of this.

4x4 Steering Wheel Oscillation
Ford Death Rattle

It is not a mild vibration, watching several videos. I will be following this while we travel, much closer now. My experience was just momentary... but... now I am aware of this issue on 4x4's for some time.

This made me Curious about our 2014 25 foot International.

"Someday, I might be brave enough to find a secure spot on the floor of our Airstream, while being towed and try to understand why things become loose and doors and drawers come loose.

If people can ride within an RV... is there something I do not know?

I know Lucille Ball tried to bake a cake in their trailer... but I am not interested in baking. Possibly lay on the bed and see what is up. If a watermelon and our Solar Panel rides well on the bed... why not... me?" (quote from the Dexter Brake thread)

Anyone try this before?

I have been curious about this since having a trailer in 2006. Why all of the trouble with bolts backing out of walls, drawers and fixtures coming loose?

A surviving 'eye witness' might solve my and your questions, as well. I could be your Guinea Person.
__________________

[rmkrum]

In most jurisdictions, it's probably illegal to ride in a towed vehicle.

I would just put a phone, set to record video and sound, into the trailer to see what's going on. I seem to remember a few have, and the gag about Airstreams being a 'rolling earthquake' seems to have a grain of truth in it, based on their videos. Yipes!

I tend to think of the AS as being a focus point for lots of vibration and strains, sorta like a boat or an aircraft--in particular a helicopter. (IMHO, helicopters do not actually fly--they violently beat the air into total submission.)

So I use nutserts instead of sheet metal screws, install properly-sized fasteners, safety wire, self-locking nuts, anti-chafing wire and tubing protectors, etc. that should be par for the course when working on these things. Plus a fair amount of time spent on preventative maintenance. You tend to always carry a screwdriver and a wrench, a wad of rags, and actively look for stuff coming loose, then tighten it back up.

Kinda the old Navy gag about, "If it moves, salute it, if it does not move, pick it up, if you can't pick it up, paint it." Of course, when you come across a rather rotund Senior Chief Petty Officer snoozing deeply in his comfy desk chair, this presents an interesting moral dilemma in properly conforming to the above instructions...

[skyguyscott]

A safer and more interesting approach might be to mount a video camera such as one of the newer "action cams" like go-pro or Contour inside the trailer, in a corner somewhere. Drive around for a while, then look at the footage, or better yet, post it on YouTube.

[Ray Eklund]

States That Allow Riders In Travel Trailers: Arizona, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas*, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska and North Carolina.

* Some restrictions check state law.

So... I guess I may have to hold off.

North Carolina... is open.

But... possibly someone with video knowledge post an actual inside activity within an Airstream, moving down a 'smooth highway' and maybe another on a Forest Service road for comparison.

What State was the 1954 Long, Long Trailer being towed? They may be in trouble.

[rowiebowie]

It may take much less than you think to find out how your trailer rides (or maybe I should say "bounces"). Just a ride around the neighborhood at 20mph can be enough provided the road is a little rough. We have such a road in my neighborhood that triggers a rattle I've been chasing in my Airstream Avenue class b since I got it.

Just this morning I had my wife drive me around several blocks. Like I said, speed never exceeded 20-25 mph. I was shocked how much vibration I saw (not just felt) in my galley. Still, it was not the source of my rattle that has been my nemesis. I did narrow it down to behind the galley 120v outlet. But being jostled around at such a slow speed, I never want to be walking around back there at highway speeds.

My ride was over in less than 5 minutes, and I didn't have to leave the relative safety of my neighborhood streets. Oh, and I get car sick very easy so would not have lasted much longer anyway (like when Lucy tries to get Desi's attention in the Long, Long Trailer).


.

[Ray Eklund]

rowiebowie... admit it. You enjoyed every minute of this ride.

Since you are now experienced... just, maybe...

Sometimes I wonder if Laws are written to discourage people from finding out that their trailer will shake itself apart after five years, more or less. I see plenty of Air Conditioning covers along side the Interstate Highways that decided, enough is enough. This could be a clue.

I will have to do some research as to Adventurers who have posted on the Internet their experiences riding in a trailer in tow.

The Army had no issue with fifty troops being towed in some open trailer. It was an extra forty minutes of Fun, Travel and Adventure.

I would imagine Leaf Spring Axles would have a smoother ride, than the Dexter Torflex/Dura Torque Axles... while we are working on this. Inland RV is an Airstream Distributor. Maybe they will, not, jump in and fill in some blanks. Like that look on my face at the present.

We are still waiting patiently, for someone who has pushed the limits within an Aluminum Rocket on wheels, riding within the Interior while in motion of their Airstream. We are possibly talking of G Forces within our passive trailers.

Does a Single Axle ride better or worse than a Double Axle, or the other way around?

[turk123]

I thought only my wife's Jeep had death rattle. It can get violent right out of the blue. Very dangerous.

Usually, it requires new front end parts. Torsion bar, torsion shock and possible ball joints. Anyway, that is what we replaced.

[Ray Eklund]

Turk123... A 4x4 Steering Wheel Oscillation, seems to be the Ford 11-6-14 TSB terminology.

From the videos, I watched the tires oscillate AND the steering wheel, with drivers not happy about it all.

[ITSNO60]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

States That Allow Riders In Travel Trailers: Arizona, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas*, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska and North Carolina.

* Some restrictions check state law.

Yes I believe one of the restrictions is that the trailer must be attached to a tow vehicle

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

rowiebowie... admit it. You enjoyed every minute of this ride.

We are still waiting patiently, for someone who has pushed the limits within an Aluminum Rocket on wheels, riding within the Interior while in motion of their Airstream. We are possibly talking of G Forces within our passive trailers.

Maybe it a generational thing or no one else is man (or woman) enough to admit they've ridden back there. Even though it was wrong at the time, my Wife remembers riding in her family's trailer on occasion as a young child in the early 60's. She will also admit to riding on the rear window shelf in her family's sedan (and liking the fact that as the youngest she could fit there and get away from her 4 siblings).

I couldn't list all the things I did when young, and yet, here we both are.
.

[JCWDCW]

When I see what things fly around in my trailer, I'm never going to try to be back there. I always take things off counters etc. but still find stuff that fell off the bed or couch. People have left their cats in the trailer.. Near disaster from cats claw marks everywhere!
JCW

[kendrick.l.j]

Don’t know if this is helpful...
My Dad had a 2012 F250 that I borrowed from time to time. I experienced the death rattle three times in one trip from ATL to New Orleans. When I got back I took his truck to the Ford Service dept, they looked at me like I was crazy. I never drove that truck again. The shimmy (and trust me, it’s a hellava lot more than a little extra play in the steering) is now well documented, which is why I choose a RAM.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by skyguyscott

A safer and more interesting approach might be to mount a video camera such as one of the newer "action cams" like go-pro or Contour inside the trailer, in a corner somewhere. Drive around for a while, then look at the footage, or better yet, post it on YouTube.

If it's that rattley inside how are you going to distinguish what is moving.
Do Airstreams ride rough because of the lack of springs ?

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

Turk123... A 4x4 Steering Wheel Oscillation, seems to be the Ford 11-6-14 TSB terminology.

From the videos, I watched the tires oscillate AND the steering wheel, with drivers not happy about it all.

I had a 2012 F-150 and now a 2017 F-250 4×4 and I never experienced what is described.
We also have 4 service trucks F-350 4×4 with the V10 engines without any of this issues. So what gives ? Are simply lucky.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by kendrick.l.j

Don’t know if this is helpful...
My Dad had a 2012 F250 that I borrowed from time to time. I experienced the death rattle three times in one trip from ATL to New Orleans. When I got back I took his truck to the Ford Service dept, they looked at me like I was crazy. I never drove that truck again. The shimmy (and trust me, it’s a hellava lot more than a little extra play in the steering) is now well documented, which is why I choose a RAM.

Hmmmm, the main reason we got rid of all Dodge service trucks and went to Fords was the lousy front ends they had.

[ITSNO60]

I have heard it called "Death Wobble". I do know that some straight axle trucks come with a factory steering stabilizer and some don't. My F-350 did and I never had the slightest shimmy, ever. When I upgraded to Bilstein shocks I went ahead and upgraded the steering stabilizer to a Bilstein as well. Some of the guys on my truck forum have fixed the wobble by adding a steering stabilizer. Not all straight axle Fords come with one.

[BDowse]

I have a 2012 F250 4X4 and had the experience I never want to repeat. 42,000 miles, put on new tires and trailing link I think it was (warranty item).
Now have over 76,000 and no new occurrence.
Ford garage manager said since Ford started using coils instead of leafs to soften the ride this was somewhat common. Scared me as I had just returned from Colorado and traveling on I70 through the “Ike Gauntlet” at 65 MPH.
If it happens again just come to a safe straight line stop out of traffic and restart your trip then get to a Ford dealer ASAP. To find the problem. Even minor wear of parts and/or tires and combination of these can cause the problem. Chevys and Dodges are not exempt if they are 4X4s

[RandyNH]

Ray, didn't you say yours wobbled when you applied the brakes? Wouldn't that indicate a brake rotor concern? I believe the standard Ford death wobble is at highway speed without any compression of the front end.

[r carl]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EuQ6f8rgT4

[polarlyse]

OK Gang. Here goes my Death Wobble story (foreverafter referred to as DW). I had an '06 Dodge 3500 that traded in for my current Ford F350. Both 4x4, SRW, short beds. The Dodge had about 125k when traded and never had any incidence of DW, ever. Moving on the Ford. Bought new in Leavenworth, Kansas. Had the first incidence of DW at around 30k miles. Took it to my local (New Jersey) dealer and, of course, they were unable to create a repeat performance so, as far as they were concerned, all was good. Now, in all honesty, during that period it seemed to rear it's ugly head under specific circumstances when traveling a road that had a high speed left handed ramp from one interstate onto another. I travel that road periodically, like every 2 weeks, and was often able to feel a slight shimmy in the steering that would (when conditions were just right) erupt into a full scale DW requiring that I rapidly apply brakes and slow to 35 mph or so to stop the wobble. It was a violent shaking of the front end. Until a few weeks ago it always happened on the sweeping left turn at speeds in the 60-65mph range. A few weeks ago, for the first time, it happened beyond the turn on a straight roadway that had some rough spots in the concrete surface. My truck is way out of the factory, new vehicle warranty but I have the extended coverage and this time I took it to a different Ford dealer. Before going to the dealer I brought it to a local front end shop for an inspection. I thought I would need some ammunition to support my claim at the dealer. He found that all looked good and was tight. The only recommendation he was able to make was to suggest installing a double steering stabilizer. It has a single from the factory and I had already replaced that and the shocks with Bilsteins thinking they might correct the DW. So, off to the dealer I go. The service manager came out to look and with the truck on the ground he had me wiggle the steering wheel back / forth and he noted a very slight (hardly noticable in fact) looseness in a ball joint on the passenger side of the track bar. The drivers side has a bushing and no movement there. He offered to replace it under my extended warranty. Now that's done. The luck of the draw seems to be that the other day I drove my rough roadway in an effort to see if I could generate the infamous DW and it's all been ground down and re-paved so I can't even do that. But in fairness to Ford the steering seems to be nice and tight. Where I found on occasion the slight shimmy as a precursor to DW I find all smooth and tight.

Now I know none of this is brake related, truck or trailer but this thread seemed to evolve into the front end wobble issue also and I just wanted to relate what my experience with DW was. I'm the friend that Bud referred to in a previous comment in this thread. I've been keeping up with Bud since I also have self adjusting brakes on my AS but an older set so hopefully of pre-defect design.

In an unrelated matter but of concern to those of us towing with late model Fords with the 4x4 I have recently been surprised to find that we have a grease fitting on the "U" joint on the front axel shafts. I came upon it by coincidence while inspecting the front end for looseness. Mine is a '15 so climb down there and take a look and grease it if you got it.

Sorry about the lengthy story here but if Ray can get away with it so can I and I felt I needed to lay the foundation. In the next week or so I'll be getting new tires, wheel balance and alignment so I think I'll be eliminating all the variables that are often blamed for Death Wobble. The experts tell me that this condition concerns only those trucks made with solid axels and therefore by design eliminates Chevy and GMC from death wobble.

thanX all. See ya on the road sometime. We're off on the Southeast Caravan in a few weeks.