Ford vs. Dodge conundrum

[Woody.303]

Originally Posted by BillTex

For Zen experience while driving, get on a bike (anything with 4 wheels will never come close…. Must read; “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance” Robert M. Pirsig.) For towing, go with a slush box and conentrate on the task at hand.

Bill,

Thanks for the comments.

Growing up, I used to watch the Harley's roaring down the street and wish I was big enough to have one. The open road, hair in the wind, etc. (Oh, I don't have any hair left.) When I was 22 I was finally able to get a bike, and quickly realized that it is no where near as much fun as my Jeep. My dream of riding around the country on a big Fatboy was shattered.

Around town, and commuting to work wasn't too bad....provided the temps were above 75 degrees. A few months later, I decided to take that bike for a 2 1/2 hour ride. I thought to myself, this is going to be the beginning of a long journey across the vastness of the entire U.S. I hopped on with glee and delight. The wind noise was deafening, I had bugs in my teeth, welts on my chest from rocks thrown from cars, and I was stiff and sore from sitting in one position for the entire time. I asked myself, "Is this fun?". I rode the bike one more time, and sold it a few weeks later.

Nowadays, I'll get on a bike maybe once a year and take it around the block. That is enough of a fix for me. I still love to watch those Harley's roaring down the street, but it is just not for me. I have much more fun trying to get my truck stuck in the mud, or following a challenging 4x4 trail thru the woods.

I did have the opportunity to read that book, and it was quite interesting.

As far as the slush box, no thanks. I much prefer a row boat.

Woody

[wppii]

No experience with Dodge, but buy Ford.
Bailout? What bailout? We don't need no stinking bailout.

[RBolton]

Control. That's the word I always hear from people preferring manuals to automatics. I can control my speed better, I can control my load better. I can control my rpms better, I can even control my fuel mileage better with a stick.

The new Dodge diesel auto comes with a feature called "electronic range selector." It's the autostick for trucks. I assume Ford and GM have something similar. In normal mode you have a six speed auto where 4th gear is direct and 5th and 6th are overdrive. In ESR mode 5th is direct and you get one extra underdrive gear. The driver can select the highest gear. For example if the driver selects ESR 3 - then the transmission will not shift above 3rd gear. These trucks also have exhaust brakes now as standard equipment. When engaged - anytime you are going over 5 or 10 miles per hour, regardless of gear, if you let off of the accelerator the exhaust brake is activated. Add anti-lock brakes and electronic stability control and and I'd say that's about all the control needed.

Automatics transmissions are a consumable commodity. You are eventually going to use one up. If you don't mind manually shifting gears or like Woody, prefer shifting gears, then you will save a lot of money in repairs and upkeep over time with a manual transmission. That is the best, maybe only argument these days to opt for the stick.

The control and improved dependabilty offered by todays automatics are two big reasons why we are seeing fewer and fewer manuals available. Well, that and cell phones and cappuccinos. The consumer will ultimately determine what's available.

Roger

[blacksheep]

Woody,

Let's see, I bought the truck in '04 with 239,000 on the clock. Do not know what was done to it before that.

- 2 injections pumps (on the newer common rail trucks it will be the injectors replaced usually instead of the injection pump)
- 1 lift pump ( put on an AirDog which will be the last one I need)
- 2 right front wheel hubs, 1 left front
- 4 APPS (accelerator pedal position sensor) (aftermarket is now available, should be better)
- 2 alternators
- 2 headlight switches
- 1 a/c compressor
- vacuum pump
- power steer pump
- 2 serpentine belts
- a few u-joints
- on my 3rd set of tires (usually 180,000 per)
- rear axle rebuilt
- 2 clutches (highly recommend the newest South Bend Clutch OFE)
- 4 reman tranny's ( 2 broke as a result of "shock" and were not the fault of the tranny)
- and when I get home later this week a radiator

Keep in mind the majority of the above was after the 500,000 mile mark.

When I did the head gasket the crosshatch on the cylinder walls looked factory fresh.

I'm going to get a million out of it.

Godspeed,
Trent

[safari 28]

I have not read all the postings, but I would seriously consider what company will be in business the next few years. My guess, Chrysler will be out, very soon and Gm to follow. Best shot is Ford or Asian, and that is just odds, nothing is for sure. Gm will not have the volume to survive as it operates today, and Chrysler is just a mess. Both will told by suppliers soon what their future is. Stay tuned.

[Journalist]

I was a diehard Ford truck fan until I bought a Chevy. I'll never look back.

[Ganaraska]

Originally Posted by safari 28

I have not read all the postings, but I would seriously consider what company will be in business the next few years. My guess, Chrysler will be out, very soon and Gm to follow. Best shot is Ford or Asian, and that is just odds, nothing is for sure. Gm will not have the volume to survive as it operates today, and Chrysler is just a mess. Both will told by suppliers soon what their future is. Stay tuned.

I doubt either is going to dry up and blow away. But what if they did? What difference would it make?

You can still buy parts for Studebakers and DeSotos at your local parts stores.

[safari 28]

First, i hope you are right. I do have inside information that suppliers will dictate the future of GM and chrysler. It has to do with risk. vs reward. Stay tuned as this will be a story of role reversals that will be discussed in business schools forever. If you think the relationship with ford and navistar was nasty, well wait for things like seats and safety systems, things the big 3 have no idea how to make these days.

I agree buying used it makes little difference. However, when buying new it seems prudent to me if you plan to turn the truck in say 3-4 years, the depreciation could be painful indeed. I have a very good friend in the body shop business, some body panels could get very hard to get brand new in a short time on some models. Used yes, but rust etc??

Hey its a tough period in our countries history. I never thought we would look at such a fate for GM. Life is not fair, and it will be interesting to see how it all falls out. Hell, rv mfg are dropping like flies, fewer choices for all and I already noticed Best buy raised prices, no Circuit city to deal with. Hang on!!

[stufarmer]

I've spent most of my life in Automotive Service Field. My Grand Father drove Fords, my Father drove Fords, so...I drove Fords. Until I bought my Dodge. I have no reason to ever look back. From a professional perspective GM's are soft & the Frames are weak, Fords always had nice interiors, but the whole International thing has ruined a good truck, Dodges have the best Frames, Engines & solid ft 4x4 axles. The bottom line is dependability, Fact's are Fact's. Expect to be impressed with the new 2010 HD Rams....

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by stufarmer

I've spent most of my life in Automotive Service Field. My Grand Father drove Fords, my Father drove Fords, so...I drove Fords. Until I bought my Dodge. I have no reason to ever look back. From a professional perspective GM's are soft & the Frames are weak, Fords always had nice interiors, but the whole International thing has ruined a good truck, Dodges have the best Frames, Engines & solid ft 4x4 axles. The bottom line is dependability, Fact's are Fact's. Expect to be impressed with the new 2010 HD Rams....

That and $2 will get you a cup of coffee.
There is some reason both GM and Ford trucks out sell Dodge (and foreigners) 3:1 for the past half century....

I don't care what you buy...(long as it's red/white/blue)...but the sales figures are the real facts...

Bill

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by stufarmer

GM's are soft & the Frames are weak,

You obvously haven't looked at a late model GM frame.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by stufarmer

I've spent most of my life in Automotive Service Field. My Grand Father drove Fords, my Father drove Fords, so...I drove Fords. Until I bought my Dodge. I have no reason to ever look back. From a professional perspective GM's are soft & the Frames are weak, Fords always had nice interiors, but the whole International thing has ruined a good truck, Dodges have the best Frames, Engines & solid ft 4x4 axles. The bottom line is dependability, Fact's are Fact's. Expect to be impressed with the new 2010 HD Rams....

Nice try on your first post

If your fishing you've already gotten a few bites.

By 2010 it may be a moot point anyway.

Dodge Ram..the only oxymoron with wheels.

[Woody.303]

All,

I'm sure you've already heard, but Obama is now the controlling interest in GM.

You can bet your tootsie rolls that they will be selling electric vehicles with huge tax rebates in the next couple of years.

Chrysler is now being forced into a merger with Fiat, and that will make them both go under. (GM should've bought Jeep when they had the chance back in 1986.)

The Asian market is in just about the same kind of situation, with Honda and Toyota both in dire need of government support.

The ONLY choice now it seems is the Ford.

I've also decided to keep the old truck, as I've now got most everything fixed. The payment on a new truck is akin to the payment on a house, and I just don't see the value there. I've only got 207,000 on it now, and I think I can get another 200k before I trade her in.

Thanks,

Woody

[canadianguy]

Ford fan, for what it's worth. They have their faults, no doubt about it, but for a truck it's Ford of nothing.

[nsteel]

I have a Chevy with a Duramax. Even though Cummins is a good engine it sounds like a coffee can full of ball bearings rattling.. Ford is only slightly quieter but not by much. Back in 86 I owned a ford diesel and would wake the neighbors every morning. If GM doesn't survive I hope someone starts installing the Duramax/Allison combo and they would have a winner. Quiet and lots of power..

[TIMEMACHINE]

Originally Posted by BillTex

That and $2 will get you a cup of coffee.
There is some reason both GM and Ford trucks out sell Dodge (and foreigners) 3:1 for the past half century....

I don't care what you buy...(long as it's red/white/blue)...but the sales figures are the real facts...

Bill

Bill,

Sales figures do tell us something, but not necessarily that the biggest seller is the best, the primary reason Ford outsells GM and they both out sell Dodge is the number of retail outlets. Ford has by far the largest number of dealers, and recently, they are gaining in terms of percentages since there are more GM and Dodge dealers closing shop due to the economy and poor sales. Each manufacturer has it's loyal fans, and each truck is different in some way from another, and in the end, each owner justifies his decsion based on his set of circumstances and specific needs and wants. I for one am really glad we have a choice, and I agree, lets hope we will always have many red/white/blue trucks to choose from in the future.

time

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE

Bill,

Sales figures do tell us something, but not necessarily that the biggest seller is the best, the primary reason Ford outsells GM and they both out sell Dodge is the number of retail outlets. Ford has by far the largest number of dealers, and recently, they are gaining in terms of percentages since there are more GM and Dodge dealers closing shop due to the economy and poor sales. Each manufacturer has it's loyal fans, and each truck is different in some way from another, and in the end, each owner justifies his decsion based on his set of circumstances and specific needs and wants. I for one am really glad we have a choice, and I agree, lets hope we will always have many red/white/blue trucks to choose from in the future.

time

Hey Time, don't want to go tit for tat on this...because really, as long as it's DNA is stamped "USA" I am all for it. I would drive a 69 Power wagon (which I used to own!) before I put my butt in anything foreign...

But Ford does not outsell GM in trucks...they outsell Chevy or GMC individualy, but the 2 divisions combined (GM) have historicaly been roughly equal to Ford in sales for about 2 decades with each selling ~ 900k/year. They have traded #1 by about 100k units in any given year. Dodge and the foreigners were selling ~ 300k/year in trucks.
We all know these numbers will be drasticaly different for ALL by the end of this year...

Disclaimer; this does not of course, include the recent economic climate for which I have no data on current sales figures for trucks. (I no longer work in automotive-thank God!)

Disclaimer #2; I make no excuses for the mess GM has made for itself, or Dodge. It's a da*n shame. Mismanagent at it finest.

I suspect that the majority of the PM's you received from disgruntled deezul owners were 6.0l Fords as your previous truck?
No surprise there...that platform, for a large part, was a disaster, though I understand the later years were OK.

I have yet to hear any real complaints from Cummins drivers or DuraMax drivers...

Bill

p.s. Time; its all good, just wanted to clarify some numbers I stated rather broadly previuously.

[TIMEMACHINE]

Originally Posted by BillTex

Hey Time, don't want to go tit for tat on this...because really, as long as it's DNA is stamped "USA" I am all for it. I would drive a 69 Power wagon (which I used to own!) before I put my butt in anything foreign...

But Ford does not outsell GM in trucks...they outsell Chevy or GMC individualy, but the 2 divisions combined (GM) have historicaly been roughly equal to Ford in sales for about 2 decades with each selling ~ 900k/year. They have traded #1 by about 100k units in any given year. Dodge and the foreigners were selling ~ 300k/year in trucks.
We all know these numbers will be drasticaly different for ALL by the end of this year...

Disclaimer; this does not of course, include the recent economic climate for which I have no data on current sales figures for trucks. (I no longer work in automotive-thank God!)

Disclaimer #2; I make no excuses for the mess GM has made for itself, or Dodge. It's a da*n shame. Mismanagent at it finest.

I suspect that the majority of the PM's you received from disgruntled deezul owners were 6.0l Fords as your previous truck?
No surprise there...that platform, for a large part, was a disaster, though I understand the later years were OK.

I have yet to hear any real complaints from Cummins drivers or DuraMax drivers...

Bill

p.s. Time; its all good, just wanted to clarify some numbers I stated rather broadly previuously.

Bill,

Thanks for the clarification, I believe you are correct or at least it certainly sounds right, I will be the first to admit numbers are sometimes tough to nail down. As for the folks who have PM'd, most have never owned a truck, thus all of the thread posters who have had experience in truck ownership have helped them determine the pros and cons of owning different brands and models. Basically, they have appreciated owners expressing their point of view, positive or negative.

I never intended to bash Fords, although I agree that there seems to be more disatisfied Powerstroke owners than Duramax or Cummins, but in reality, even the Powerstroke has by far more happy owners than ones who had problems, probably a ratio of 25 to 1.

The OP of this thread seems resigned to keeping his original truck, I think that may be the trend for some time, it is really hard to justify buying any new truck that depreciates 50% in less than 2 years.

time