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Old 11-17-2009, 06:12 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
'dog...


is the truck primarily for towing/travel or primarily 4 urban living and driving?

cheers
2air'


Both. Once the trailer is purchased I would think 75% of the miles would be traveling.
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Old 11-17-2009, 09:21 PM   #30
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We got the Lariat w/plus pkg, 157" WB, heat/cool seats, captain chairs, moon roof, spray-in bedliner and max trlr. tow pkgs among others. The rear seat is huge and the floor is flat and all usable w/seats folded up. The 7700# GVWR was necessary with the equipment we ordered. I have an ARE tonneau cover on the way, too. At this point I have no "second guess" regrets except for being crazy enough to spend this much on a truck !!!!!

Dan
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Old 11-18-2009, 09:11 AM   #31
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Navigation included with vehicle or purchase one after-market?

Having both, I can offer some insight. I have the vehicle installed GPS in a Lexus and a Garmin Nuvi in my PU. The price difference is obvious. There are some major differences I have noticed. First the Lexus GPS has very limited functionality when the vehicle speed is over 10MPH. For example you cannot use it to locate the nearest gas station while at normal driving speed. I ended up purchasing and installing a device that defeats that limitation. The Garmin obviously can be used while the car is in motion.

Second, the Garmin has the ability to learn, the Lexus does not. For example, I prefer a short cut home, through neighborhood streets instead of the main street. After a few times the Garmin "learned" that and now routes me that way. The Lexus always routes me the same way down the main street.

Third, the Lexus works through the vehicle sound system so driving instructions are issued while the radio is volume is dimmed. The Garmin can be hard to hear over the vehicle radio. The Bluetooth in the Lexus is vastly superior to the Garmin.

Fourth, the Lexus requires a $200 set of DVDs to update the routes and perhaps a dealer fee to install. A new Nuvi is about $200.

The Lexus typically offers 3 routes to a destination, the Garmin 1 route. The Garmin has the ability to add POIs, the Lexus does not. On a couple of trips have had both in the Lexus and both appear to have good routing. The Bluetooth phone book in the Lexus is a great feature as well as the ability to locate a POI and call the POI with a press of the button.

Which would I purchase? I honestly don't know, will face that when I replace the PU. The Bluetooth and radio sound override is great, but the Garmin is $200 or so, can be updated with POIs and learns. The Lexus limited functionality while at speed is a real bummer unless you can get a device to defeat it.
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Old 11-18-2009, 09:13 AM   #32
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RavenDog
We got the Lariat w/plus pkg, 157" WB, heat/cool seats, captain chairs, moon roof, spray-in bedliner and max trlr. tow pkgs among others. The rear seat is huge and the floor is flat and all usable w/seats folded up. The 7700# GVWR was necessary with the equipment we ordered. I have an ARE tonneau cover on the way, too. At this point I have no "second guess" regrets except for being crazy enough to spend this much on a truck !!!!!

Dan


Sounds like a beautiful TV with lots of spacing. It's very hard trying to find one with a 3.73 rear end unless you special order it. I was surprised to see that even the F250's come standard with the 3.55.

I understand all the manufacturers are trying to increase mileage on all vehicles but 3.55's on F250's?

Have a good day.......
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Old 11-18-2009, 09:22 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by extiger View Post
Navigation included with vehicle or purchase one after-market?

Having both, I can offer some insight. I have the vehicle installed GPS in a Lexus and a Garmin Nuvi in my PU. The price difference is obvious. There are some major differences I have noticed. First the Lexus GPS has very limited functionality when the vehicle speed is over 10MPH. For example you cannot use it to locate the nearest gas station while at normal driving speed. I ended up purchasing and installing a device that defeats that limitation. The Garmin obviously can be used while the car is in motion.

Second, the Garmin has the ability to learn, the Lexus does not. For example, I prefer a short cut home, through neighborhood streets instead of the main street. After a few times the Garmin "learned" that and now routes me that way. The Lexus always routes me the same way down the main street.

Third, the Lexus works through the vehicle sound system so driving instructions are issued while the radio is volume is dimmed. The Garmin can be hard to hear over the vehicle radio. The Bluetooth in the Lexus is vastly superior to the Garmin.

Fourth, the Lexus requires a $200 set of DVDs to update the routes and perhaps a dealer fee to install. A new Nuvi is about $200.

The Lexus typically offers 3 routes to a destination, the Garmin 1 route. The Garmin has the ability to add POIs, the Lexus does not. On a couple of trips have had both in the Lexus and both appear to have good routing. The Bluetooth phone book in the Lexus is a great feature as well as the ability to locate a POI and call the POI with a press of the button.

Which would I purchase? I honestly don't know, will face that when I replace the PU. The Bluetooth and radio sound override is great, but the Garmin is $200 or so, can be updated with POIs and learns. The Lexus limited functionality while at speed is a real bummer unless you can get a device to defeat it.

Thanks for the exceptional comparison. I've never looked into a Garmin or any other Navigation as my 2002 vehicle had one in it and I fell in love with it, even though I don't use it a lot. It does have all the shortcomings you mentioned too. Decisions, decisions............

Thanks.
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Old 11-18-2009, 11:10 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
a mythical '7300' lb trailer will have a tongue mass of ~800-1000 lbs.

the camper SHELL is ~200+ lbs.

hitch apparatus 100-250 lbs.

so NOW calculate the PAYLOAD remaining for ALL the other stuff U might load in the truck.
__________

THAT can become the deciding issue in the truck SIZE equation..

2Air:
I now see your point, it is important to look at both the payload and towing capacity. A F250 with 3.73 has 3,160 payload and 9,700 tow capacity or a lot more payload than the F150. Changing the F250 to a 4.10 changes the tow capacity to 11,700 with the same payload.
Going to a F350 adds another 1,000 payload.
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:06 PM   #35
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I now see your point, it is important to look at both the payload and towing capacity...
exactly.

in fact many of us believe the 'towing capacity' figure is the MOST misleading number...

especially on smaller vehicles or those NOT really intended for towing.

and for folks TRYING to use a tv RIGHT AT it's rating limits or over them...
______________

the IMPORTANT ratings/number are these...

1. gcvwr (this is the weight limit for EVERYTHING rolling, tv, trailer and ALL the stuff in/on both)
2. payload (basically the gvwr-curb weight+options)
3. axle/tire load ratings (front and rear)
4. the TRAILER carry capacity (since trailers with tiny payloads means carrying more stuff IN the tv)

"tow rating or towing capacity " is a simple consumer friendly offering and ADVERTISING tool...

but that HEADLINER/AD figure leaves OUT many of the IMPORTANT issues that lower those PEAK figures.

MANY of the tow ratings fail to account for the driver, passengers and FUEL or ANY options on the vehicle.

this is why for example VANS often have MORE real towing ability than suvs...

because vans (people haulers) often have higher PAYLOAD figures.

it's also why the 1/2 ton trucks are WIDELY different with payloads from just over 1000 lbs to >2000 lbs.
_____________

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenDog View Post
I was surprised to see that even the F250's come standard with the 3.55.

I understand all the manufacturers are trying to increase mileage on all vehicles but 3.55's on F250's?...]
because the 250s with DIESEL have SO MUCH low end torque and a power band in the LOWER rpm zone...

a 3.5 on the diesel will NOT be a limiting issue towing ANY AIRSTREAM of ANY SIZE or YEAR.
____________

the differences (mpg, 0-60, noise, and every thing else) are MINIMAL on drivetrains with >300 ft/lb of torque and the 250 is >500 ft/lbs.
____________

the 4.10 is TOTALLY un necessary on any recent powerstroke UNLESS one is planning to haul (carry/tow) 12k or more.

for example towing a 4 slide 5th wheel OR carrying 2 motorbikes AND towing a 34slide 'stream (350 dualy or 450)
____________

with SMALL v8s or v6s (gassers) or OLDER engines with LESS torque/hp, the 3.5 vs 3.7 vs 4.1 MATTERS for towing.



cheers
2air'
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Old 11-24-2009, 10:08 PM   #36
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Can't say for Fords but there is no way I would change the 3.73's on my Cummins (w/stock tire size). Great pulling power and mid-20's solo.

Granted that as transmissions seem to gain more gears every year that pieces can be assembled differently for performance.

3.55's are the classic "gear fast, run slow" choice for Class 8 OTR trucks; they'll get the newest motors into the 1,450-1,600 rpm sweet spot at highway speeds. (And a 13-speed. And a five-and-a-quarter Cummins. In a midroof KW conventional).
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