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Old 05-11-2011, 10:03 AM   #21
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Old 05-11-2011, 10:25 AM   #22
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I have no problem with putting a huge truck in front of any trailer to tow; where it gets to be a burr under my saddle is when I think about paying for fuel that's burned needlessly just to run errands or take trips without a TT.

Oh sure, you can buy another vehicle if money and space are no problem, but how efficient is that?

IMHO you have the right idea getting a vehicle that will pay it's way into the future while also being a joy to drive when you AREN'T towing.
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Old 05-11-2011, 10:32 AM   #23
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Ford has a road show traveling across North America demonstrating the EcoBoost. You have the chance to compare the Ford EcoBoost with Dodge Hemi and Chevy in real towing conditions. I drove all 3 back to back pulling 6000 pounds. The power in the Ford is unbelievable. The twin turbo V6 outperforms both competitors hands down. Find out if the demo will be in your area and try it for yourself.
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Old 05-11-2011, 10:42 AM   #24
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F-150

I bought a 2010 F-150 4x4 FX4 last year with the max tow pkg and the max payload package w/super cab. It was rated at 11300lb tow capacity. I tow a 2011 23ft International with 6000 GVW and 750lb tongue weight because I wanted to be sure it would do the job in a mountainous environment and I really didn't think 11300lb. tow capacity was realalistic.

After towing this rig with the truck bed full of stuff up and down some very long steep grades, I think it is a great truck built almost specifically to tow. It's not a matter of maintaining speed going up steep grades, but of how fast do I want to go up steep grades. I get about 12-13 mpg towing and on trips to Canada without the AS (14 hours of a variety of roads and speeds) I get the 20MPG that was promised.

I have not driven the the new engine, but I offer my .02 because I believe in the trucks ability to tow 11,000 LBS. I did drive the 2011 F250 Diesel and that is a great truck and would clearly do the job. That was what I intended to buy, but I saved $12,000 + on the cost of the truck and the F150 runs on regular gas so the operating expenses are considerably less.

I agree that you should ask for a "test tow" and be certain.
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Old 05-11-2011, 11:47 AM   #25
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I also have a 2010 Ford F150 Supercrew 4x4 5.4 v8 w/tow pak and pull a 2007 28ft International CCD.It pulls great with the Equalizer hitch installed.No complaints ,11-12 mpg loaded 19-20 without trailer.
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:12 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by tlcbuilder View Post
Would really hate to spend $40K and find out the twin-turbo's are running full out when pulling the AS .
They are TINY turbos. If the engine is under load they are spooling and hit full spool quick.
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:03 PM   #27
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They are TINY turbos. If the engine is under load they are spooling and hit full spool quick.
Well, the turbos are "tiny" in comparison to a single turbo for a turbodiesel of around 2x the displacement, but they're well-sized for the purpose.

I think the more reasonable concern I've seen expressed about this engine is its ability to dissipate heat under extended full-load conditions, such as climbing a long grade with a trailer. For example, in the "Davis Dam test" reported by Pickuptrucks.com (but run by Ford) they only ran 3.5 miles of a 12-mile grade. Now, they may have chosen the shorter course simply because the Dodge was starting to catch up by the end of the 3.5 miles, or they may have chosen the short course because available power drops off as the engine "heat soaks" in extended max-power conditions.

I'd like to see the 3.5l Ecoboost be a strong successful engine so I can consider it for my next truck... the current one is a bit thirsty (I'm used to car mileage, so it may just be an adjustment for me, but ~15mpg around town is not impressive.)
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:23 PM   #28
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They are TINY turbos. If the engine is under load they are spooling and hit full spool quick.
If you want to evaluate turbocharger sizing, I recommend Hugh MacInnes' book, Turbochargers (HP Books). It's a complex subject, and this is one of the best books available.

MacInnes was one of the pioneers of turbocharging. The semi-floating bearing (Rayjay Patent 3,043,636) is credited to Hugh MacInnes.
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Old 05-11-2011, 02:23 PM   #29
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Well, the turbos are "tiny" in comparison to a single turbo for a turbodiesel of around 2x the displacement, but they're well-sized for the purpose.
Who suggested that the turbos were poorly sized for their purpose? They spool very fast, have little lag, are not all top end, etc. All that means is that they spool fast under load, unline a single big turbo. The small twins make the engine feel like a bigger displacement engine than it is more than a boosted motor. Thats obvious from looking at the turbocharger maps and powerband. Small turbos run out of steam up top and spool fast. It has a nice, fat powerband more similar to a bigger displacement NA than a peaky big turbo built for top end. I am not complaining about the size for the purpose, merely pointing out that under load it will be difficult to stay out of boost (without tuning/mechanical mods which are easy enough if you know what you are doing).

Thanks for the tip VS; all info readily available online and my opinion is not based only on what I can read. My last turbo project was a 2.5L LegacyGT and got a 12 second 440hp/535tq 2.5L ethanol powered Subaru Legacy GT that I plug into my laptop for tuning and drive everywhere I go. Its incredibly tame and easier to drive than it was stock. Im no engineer but I am a backyard racer who studied up about compressor charts and turbo efficiencies to formulate educated opinions for my own projects
(EDIT: any local gear heads/horsepower junkies are more than welcome to come check it out!) /ot personal story rant

Anyhow, like DKB said, heat soak would be the concern (also easily fixed with bigger intercoolers, meth/water injection, an e85 tune, etc).
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Old 05-11-2011, 02:39 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalStreamr View Post
Who suggested that the turbos were poorly sized for their purpose? They spool very fast, have little lag, are not all top end, etc. All that means is that they spool fast under load, unline a single big turbo. The small twins make the engine feel like a bigger displacement engine than it is more than a boosted motor. Thats obvious from looking at the turbocharger maps and powerband. Small turbos run out of steam up top and spool fast. It has a nice, fat powerband more similar to a NA than a turbo built for pure speed. I am not complaining about the size for the purpose, merely pointing out that under load it will be difficult to stay out of boost (without tuning/mechanical mods which are easy enough if you know what you are doing).

Thanks for the tip VS; all info readily available online and my opinion is not based only on what I can read. My last turbo project was a 2.5L LegacyGT and got a 12 second 440hp/535tq 2.5L ethanol powered Subaru Legacy GT that I plug into my laptop for tuning and drive everywhere I go. Its incredibly tame and easier to drive than it was stock. Im no engineer but I am a backyard racer enough to know enough about compressor charts and turbo efficiencies to formulate educated opinions

Anyhow, like DKB said, heat soak would be the concern.
The Legacy sounds like a neat project. My last turbo project was a bigblock Plymouth with a 2.70 or so rear end. Not a drag car, but would throw you back in the seats at 120 mph. (Texas panhandle)

McInnes visited the shop where I later worked while he was writing his book and my boss knew him.

We built turbo kits and intercoolers for Minneapolis-Moline 800 CID inline sixes that pumped water for irrigation. All torque applications.

I spent one winter, the slow season for irrigation, rebuilding turbos in my spare time. I rebuilt about 25 that winter.
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Old 05-11-2011, 05:19 PM   #31
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I just purchased a new TV and looked very hard at the new Ford 150 w/eco boost engine. It was impressive but had one big draw back for me. The eco engine option was over $4000.00 extra. My vintage Safari is not very big so I felt the extra cash was way more than I needed. Bought an new Chevy extended 4x4 w/5.3 v8. Gets 11 - 13 pulling the AS and does do 19 - 20 w/out.
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Old 05-11-2011, 10:33 PM   #32
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Not the towing info you all wanted, but my crew cab, max tow F150 ecoboost runs about 16 to 17 mpg at 80mph on the freeway, just a little over 19mpg over Mothers day trip in the mountains around Red Lodge at around 65mph. Lots of power, and really like the truck. Traded in a 2008 1500 Silverado, which I liked, but like the F150 much more. $33,000. Lots of bells and whistles. XLT tow max crew cab model.
I will be towing only a 2007 Bambi 19' SE so have no worries.
Too busy getting the farm planted and crops in for the next month, then will give more info on towing performance. Tons of power though.
Greg
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Old 05-12-2011, 12:28 AM   #33
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Okay, I caved, sold the 6.0L and purchased a 2011 crew cab, 157" WB, 4x4 lariat loaded, with the ecoboost on May 4th, only have 2000 miles so far and only pulled the 28' AS with slide (8000#) about 60 miles. Getting about 19 mpg at 65-70 mph on level ground, no wind, and 12 mpg pulling the AS. Leaving on about a 4000 mile trip in late June and will have better number by Aug. So far, best truck I've ever owned, but it's still early. No FORD dealers in Nevada that wanted to deal, so I ordered and picked up from Long McArthur Ford in Salina, Kansas. Great dealership, ask for
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Old 05-12-2011, 05:06 AM   #34
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~snip~

I'd like to see the 3.5l Ecoboost be a strong successful engine so I can consider it for my next truck... the current one is a bit thirsty (I'm used to car mileage, so it may just be an adjustment for me, but ~15mpg around town is not impressive.)
15mpg around town is pretty decent for a heavy vehicle. My F350 PSD gets 13 or so. I have a Dodge D300 farm truck that gets 8...on a good day. My daily driver is a Honda Accord 4 cylinder, for a reason, 27 around town 35 on the highway. Can't get around the basic laws of physics it takes more energy to get something moving than it does to keep it moving.

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Old 05-12-2011, 07:21 AM   #35
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Is there a Display To show MPG, Instant and Average Etc ?
Is there a Display to Show When "Boost" is on ?
I figure i could "Back Off" if i saw Boost was on and didn't really need it .
Havn't seen one at dealer but videos on line look Good !
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Old 05-12-2011, 07:41 AM   #36
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Look for an F-150 EcoBoost program on the SPEED channel. They take a random EcoBoost engine off the assembly line and put it through an incredible torture test. After seeing that I wish I had one.
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Old 05-12-2011, 07:56 AM   #37
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Is there a Display To show MPG, Instant and Average Etc ?
Is there a Display to Show When "Boost" is on ?
I figure i could "Back Off" if i saw Boost was on and didn't really need it .
Havn't seen one at dealer but videos on line look Good !
No boost display
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Old 05-12-2011, 08:16 AM   #38
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A boost guage would be an easy addition since they are a simple pressure guage. It should be easy to tap into the manifold.

I would be interested in knowing how many pounds of boost this engine typically runs. I've built one hotrod engine with/for a supercharger, and have a good understanding of what is required to make the engine survive under boost.
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Old 05-12-2011, 09:19 AM   #39
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Just towed my 31 foot Airstream from Toronto to Cleveland with an average of 11.7 MPG.
It is a F150 supercab with the 8 foot box and maxtow package. Ecoboost engine.
It is much superior to the E150 with the 5.4 that I had previously. Seems like twice the power.
On hills that would have had the 5.4 in second gear with the pedal on the floor this new one goes up the hill without shifting out of fifth and just goes.
I tow at about 58 MPH and the truck is almost silent. On the hills it just gets slightly louder.
City driving in Toronto with a load of tools I get about 18 MPG(US)
Best of both worlds for a big heavy truck.
Al
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Old 05-12-2011, 09:19 AM   #40
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15mpg around town is pretty decent for a heavy vehicle. My F350 PSD gets 13 or so. I have a Dodge D300 farm truck that gets 8...on a good day. My daily driver is a Honda Accord 4 cylinder, for a reason, 27 around town 35 on the highway. Can't get around the basic laws of physics it takes more energy to get something moving than it does to keep it moving.

Aaron
15 around town is in fact the EPA estimate, so I'm not really disappointed in it, I'd just like to see a higher number next time. I bought the truck just to pull the Argosy and kept my car, so in the long term it won't be an issue. However, it has a 30-day bumper-to-bumper warranty with no deductible for any issues, so I'm driving the truck most of the time during that period to find anything that may be wrong, so I notice its thirst. You're right though, you can't move 5500 lb for free.
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