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Old 12-24-2008, 11:23 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by 87MH View Post
Since you follow and have access to REAL automotive news...I have a question...

A couple of years ago there was mention of the Feds imposing some sort of "Tow Rating Guideline" on all of the manufacturers...in other words, some sort of test or design criteria to enable consumers to compare apples to apples when it came time to deciding on a Tow Vehicle. This would have taken the tow rating determination away from the individual manufacturers by massaging input parameters in a spread sheet to allow the public to REALLY compare tow ratings from various manufacturers and what the true measure of a particular vehicle was...

Did anything ever come of this, or is the oldheimers fogging up my brain?

Thanks...

I will do a search and see if anything comes up...
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Old 12-24-2008, 12:00 PM   #30
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87MH,

i tried searching the text many different ways and couldnt find anything to suggest legislation or government standards imposed on tow ratings. Here is a little snipet about the Ford F450.. Its just getting crazy with power.

More truck than ever
It isn't just the completed body and medium-duty axles that make the F-450 different from other pickups.
The giant truck comes with a rugged new frame that uses thicker metal and is stronger than the frames on Ford's F-250 and F-350 Super Duty trucks. That and a new 6.4-liter twin turbodiesel V-8 give certain versions of the F-450 a tow rating 24,500 pounds, the highest of any pickup on the market.
Pete Reyes, Ford's chief engineer for Super Duty trucks, said the F-450 may be huge, but it is still as easy to drive as a regular Super Duty pickup. He said engineers paid close attention to such things as the turning radius. The F-450 has 49-foot turning circle, Reyes said.
Buyers still can choose a chassis cab F-450 model and outfit the truck as before.
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Old 12-24-2008, 04:16 PM   #31
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We took delivery on a brand new F-250 PSD 4x4 this afternoon. We got almost $13,000 off of the sticker price so it's a great time to buy. We haven't towed our 28 ft safari yet but I'm sure it will do a great job . The ride is a little rougher than our F-150 was but the 250 really kicks butt!
Congrats on the new TV. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how nice it rides with the A/S attached. I have an '05 F250 PSD 2x4 and I am always amazed at how smooth the ride is when towing.
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Old 12-24-2008, 11:36 PM   #32
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Congrats on the new TV. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how nice it rides with the A/S attached. I have an '05 F250 PSD 2x4 and I am always amazed at how smooth the ride is when towing.
Thanks Dennis - We're looking forward to it. We're taking it out for the first time next Tuesday on the 4 Corners Unit New Years rally. It should be fun.
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Old 12-25-2008, 02:13 AM   #33
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We took delivery on a brand new F-250 PSD 4x4 this afternoon. We got almost $13,000 off of the sticker price so it's a great time to buy. We haven't towed our 28 ft safari yet but I'm sure it will do a great job . The ride is a little rougher than our F-150 was but the 250 really kicks butt!

Congrats on the new truck. Thats a nice X-mas gift...

If you bring it to the 4CU rally at Piccacho Peak, I'll show you some simple things I've done to mine, as well as point you to a few websites to keep up on the diesels.

By the way, what month/year was your truck built? I assume you purchased a 08, not an 09? The build month is significant for the 08s, not so for the 09s (at least so far)...
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Old 12-27-2008, 03:11 PM   #34
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Found it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vlamica View Post
...tried searching the text many different ways and couldnt find anything to suggest legislation or government standards imposed on tow ratings....
Pulling Together: SAE, OEMs, Trailer and Hitch Makers Work to Set Tow Testing Standards for Pickup Trucks By: Mike Levine & Kent Sundling Posted: 11-10-07 11:30 PT
© 2007 PickupTruck.com

Page: [1] [2]
Say goodbye to the suspension fairy. You know, the one that spreads its enchanted dust on leaf springs, shocks, and coils, magically increasing a truck's maximum tow ratings from year to year so it can meet or beat the competition’s ratings.
An industry wide congress has been convened to set tow testing standards for pickups, under the governance of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). The effort is a response to recent hikes in claimed maximum tow ratings that have pushed some half-tons into formerly three-quarter-ton towing territory.
Known within the SAE as standard 'J-2807 - Performance Requirements for Determining Tow Vehicle Gross Combination Weight Ratings and Trailer Weight Ratings', that dryly described objective doesn't do justice to an important selling feature for manufacturers and a passionate bragging point for owners.
The arrival of the all-new Toyota Tundra kicked off the latest scramble to claim max towing. The 2007 model promised best-in-class pulling capacity up to 10,800-pounds. Other manufacturers quickly responded, like Ford which upped the 2008 F-150's max tow rating to 11,000-pounds from 9,900-lbs the year before.

But when you read the fine print, how each OEM calculates their truck's high-end towing capacity, the testing conditions and parameters can vary greatly. That's because there aren't standards for this heavily touted metric. Each manufacturer has been free to create and test in conditions ideally suited to their truck’s towing strengths but not what might be considered 'apples-to-apples' relative to the other guys' claims.
So, the SAE, Chrysler, Ford, General Motors, Honda, Toyota, and several leading trailer and hitch makers got together last winter and used the summer months to review and discuss proposed uniform standards for trailer towing.
"Multiple OEMs were very excited about setting towing standards. They came together with the SAE and gathered a balanced group of manufacturers and suppliers," says Jack Pokrzywa, the SAE's Ground Vehicle Standards Manager.
It's serious business though. Competitive rivalries had to be left behind at the door before the process could start.
"All the reps that become part of the committee have to take their corporate hats off and not be constrained by any other issues except technical before they enter the room," says Mr. Pokrzywa.
The standard is still evolving and subject to change, but the final version is expected to be built around two primary towing scenarios – pulling a trailer on a level grade and up a 7-percent incline, both at an ambient air temperature of 100-degrees-F. Straight line 0 to 60 acceleration time and braking and cooling performance are some of the items that will be measured.


The standard won’t be for half-ton pickups only. SAE J-2807 will cover truck segments up to a gross vehicle weight (max base curb weight plus passengers and cargo) of 19,500-pounds (Class 5). And each segment will have a max towing capacity assigned to it.
One participating OEM rep on the committee tells PickupTruck.com that, "We don't want to push the trailer weights on a single rear wheel to a point where they are overlapping with dual rear wheels. We want have half-ton, three-quarter-ton, and one-ton differentiation. In some cases, it might even set a percentage of the vehicles back in how they are rating their trailers."
The role of the trailer and hitch manufacturers is to help set usage and test parameters for their products. Part of the standard covers trailer tongue weight, the percent-amount of a trailer’s gross weight pushing down on the hitch. In the past, trucks tested with fifth wheel trailers had tongue weights that might have varied from 15% to 25%. The committee has tentatively settled on a 20% standard tongue weight for all fifth wheel tow testing. And a 10% tongue weight for conventionally hitched trailers. All manufacturers would be expected to test and certify to these weights.

The trailer companies are also helping establish standard frontal area charts for trailers pulled in each truck class, to make sure aerodynamic loads are defined, while the hitch companies are recommending acceptable vehicle dynamic metrics for sway damping and stability.
A year after it was proposed, J-2807 is getting ready for the first of two rounds of balloting before the committee’s OEM, trailer, and hitch reps - an amazingly short period of time to arrive at this stage, according to Mr. Pokrzywa.
"You rarely have such an agreement come together so quickly. And sometimes it's difficult and lengthy to reach because the process is very scientific. But these guys jumped on it very fast," says Mr. Pokrzywa.
Committee reps have 28-days to make comments on the standard. The comments must be addressed and answered before each round of voting. After the second round, the standard will be made publicly available for final comment before becoming official.
It's expected that by the middle of 2008 all the tow ratings cited in truck commercials will have been measured under the new standard and guidelines. Truck shoppers will finally have an apples-to-apples comparison to refer to before reaching a purchase decision. It'll be fair - without the fairies.
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Old 12-27-2008, 05:34 PM   #35
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Congrats on the new truck. Thats a nice X-mas gift...

If you bring it to the 4CU rally at Piccacho Peak, I'll show you some simple things I've done to mine, as well as point you to a few websites to keep up on the diesels.

By the way, what month/year was your truck built? I assume you purchased a 08, not an 09? The build month is significant for the 08s, not so for the 09s (at least so far)...
Thanks - Yes, we'll be bringing it to the rally - I'll look forward to meeting you next week.
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Old 12-27-2008, 06:22 PM   #36
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Interesting article! Good find.
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Old 12-27-2008, 06:39 PM   #37
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f250

the f250 is hard to beat for towing. diesel fuel is the downside, but thats the ways the world is these days
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Old 12-27-2008, 06:42 PM   #38
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F-250 Diesel

I have pulled a 27' Overlander for 7 years with my 2x4 2000 Ford XL F250 Super Duty; Super Cab 7.3 Power stroke diesel. This truck is the long base with a cap installed. I get 20 MPG without the trailer; stick shift. You might look for advise from people with a short bed that pull a 5th wheel to check for cab clearance. The hitch weight ia also a concideration VS the specs. The decision is long bed or short. Daul or single axel. 2x4 or 4x4. If you don't anticipate much off road I wouldn't suggest a 4x4. Remember the 4x4 is higher so the 5th wheel may need adjustment to clear the gate. You want the trailer to ride level and park level. The next decision is auto or manual. Mine is a stick shift and my next will be a stick shift ( I don't anticipate #2) I have heard complaints that the new Ford diesels get very poor mileage!!! A stick shift would help--if you can stand it!!! My truck is a bare bones XL with a bench seat. Not that comfortable. (I would prefere a fold down seat .)You may want a plusher Crew Cab. LOL
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:17 AM   #39
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F250? You bet! That's all I ever pulled with until I bought a used F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel. I started off pulling with the anemic 6.9 back in 1983, then upgraded to the 7.3 turbo diesel and finally the 6.0. It just kept getting better and I imagine the new Ford diesel is even better yet. I entertained the idea of getting away from the diesel for a myriad of reasons, primarily the cost of fuel and maintenance, but unless you opt for huge gasser's you won't be satisfied with the pulling power in the hills. It's all a matter of preference and driving style, but I wouldn't trade my F350 for anything else.

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Old 01-08-2009, 03:18 AM   #40
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Wink New is nice but Used might save a lot of money

I have used several F250s through the years. I looked at the new ones and ran-not walked away. While Ford is probably the best out their its still way over what one really needs one for.

The best one was the older 1978 F250 camper special... ya its old but it ran great with the 460 gas engine. Had a fleet diesels and quite frankly the maintenance and repair of them ran about 3x as much as the gas ones did. Diesels are good... but they smell.. get the fuel on you and you won't need any bug spray for a week. needless to say the dog won't be your friend either. they rattle at idle and the new ones are not as stout with the turbo chargers on them. 7.3 non turboed (international ) diesel was the best engine you could get for the money ... if you wanted diesel. People ran the wheels off the truck with 'em. It was not uncommon to see them with 250,000 miles and still running strong.

Steping back a few years you could get a F-250 that will perform as well if not better than a new one. The money you saved will more than pay for the lower gas mileage through 100,000 miles if you do the math.

Most people who had owned gas engines .. just run out and jump in... crank 'er up and are half way down the street before the heater works. not so in a diesel... If its cold out.. you have to wait for the glowplugs to get warmed up (that takes battery or you have to plug it in some wall socket to get the thing heated up) Going to the store is not going to be a 30 min trip anymore in a diesel powered vehicle when its snowing outside. Gas yes but diesel no...

diesels have to have water/fuel filters on them as they don't like water in their fuel. You also have to watch out for bugs in the fuel too... that takes a thing call prist which is highly toxic and can lead to ya going blind if you get it on you. Diesels have bigger oil sumps... check out the amount of oil you have to carry or get changed at the 3-6000 miles. Takes a barrel of the stuff. And you have to be a fuel chem person as when it gets colder and freezes down you have to use a blended diesel fuel or the engine won't run right . then their is that ever present exhaust that smells so nice. Its enough to gag a maggot.

diesels are good runners thought. If you notice all the truckers have 'em. Also notice that they get on the road and go n go n go... that makes the diesels worth their salt. So if your going to run to the store for that missed carton of cream... best consider the use of the truck. I am sure the rest have not let you in on the dirty little secrets of diesels and ownership/maintenance cost of them.

So what to get... well we have a new 1996 F-250 4x4 with the great good old best ford ever made 460 engine in it. Cost a whopping $3500 and only had 70,000 miles on it. (they will go to 200,000 if you take care of them with good service) ... from the inside when your going down the road I doubt if you would no the difference between it and a brand new '09 one)

Go with the auto trans, biggest radiator you can get, trans cooler, again biggest alternator you can get and no lower than the 3.73 rear ratio. (4.10 would not get you the mileage when the truck is by itself and not pulling) The difference between the 3.55 and 3.73 is not that much but it will give you about 20% more pull... it will also lower the gas mileage unhooked. I have played around with the rear axel ratios and really have come to find the 3.55 is not that bad if you let the transmission do the work for you. 4x4 is nice but not needed most of the time if you stay on paved roads. 4x4 will ride rougher (stiffer) than the 2x due to the way they need to be set up. (4x4 will add 2800 bux more to the cost also.. and it has its services requirements too... we promote the KISS method of keeping your money on a budget or repairs.. and they all will need some repairs at sometime)

Try and find a PU with dual gas tanks for that added range so your not always stopping for gas/diesel.

As to the suspension. I don't think you need a HD pu. Most of the time 68-7200 lbs will give you what you need for a nice ride. (let the eq hitch do its work for balance .. reese is the best) In reguards to weight... go as low as you can-- after all your not after putting a load in the PU... you are using its running gear to pull and stop the trailer with. Most new '09 F-150s are just as good as the F-250 for the pull and stopping.

Extended cab is nice also... gives you more seat and head room behind you. 6 ft bed is going to probably be OK if your not planing on using the truck for single camping. The wheel base (shorter) makes it easier to park and manuver.

If I was going to get a new one... it would not be diesel. The 4.6L engine seems to be the better choice today with all the problems that the alu headed ones from ford are having. One of the guys that is in our group has one in the F-150 and it seems to be a real workhorse of a engine. He pulls a 31 ft AS with no problems at all... and has over 100,000 miles on the truck now with a large share of that pulling the trailer.

last but not least is the tires. Here a good set of real 6ply are what one wants. Stong enough to pull with yet soft enough to have a nice ride. Going to 10 ply without the truck loaded with a big cabover... you won't need to put air in them.. they will almost stand up by themselves. needless to say they are the next best thing to a skate board without springs. some f-250s however by law must have them to meet the weight 85-9600 gvw.

Leaving you with... get a PU you like that will suit your needs and your ideas is really the best advise one can give. After that it becomes a learning curve and location of the green bills in the wallet. Like a medical exam finding... asking others is free.. once you get it .. its yours. (today its kinda like getting married to that second woman) Sales people make theirs on commission... needless to say I would go to two or three dealers and different sales people to get a better handle on what the product will do for you and your application. Ask three times and only pay once.

good luck

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Old 01-08-2009, 03:27 AM   #41
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Oh and stay away from the 5.8 L engines or anything with a alu head. They have a spark plug issue that you don't even want to go their with.
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Old 01-12-2009, 06:53 PM   #42
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I bought a '05 F250 diesel, then last June bought my first AS, an '85 Sovereign (25 ft). We bought the AS in Miss. and towed it 1300 miles to Denver. This trip took us through some pretty nasty wind. Since then, we've towed it west on I-70 over three mountain passes. The F250 doesn't even know the truck is behind it. My problem is keeping it down to a safe speed. It would go 80 all day long. The passes don't even phase it. I think the truck is very well built and would buy it again. We have the tow package and the transmission is fantastic. Coming down Vail pass, I think I hit the brakes twice. It's very smart about downshifting. I hope this helps. By the way, I bought it used with 42k miles. I think it's silly to buy a new vehicle and pay terrible depreciation on the first trip. Best wishes.
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