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Old 09-23-2011, 04:49 AM   #169
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My company leases only F150, last count I think we had over 1,000. We run them until they hit 120,000. Aside from transmission issues back in 2004 we have had no major issues with the vehicles. I agree with DKB, most of the used F150s we seee in used car lots are turn ins or repos to folks either over extending their payment ability or the trucks have seen the repo man.

As to GM, will not buy, no matter what they make or do. Should not have gotten a bailout and still 26% owned by the government. Totally unfair competition and unfair to the consumer.
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Old 09-23-2011, 08:46 AM   #170
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Truck designers obviously realize that staring at "steam guages" is part of our sheer manliness, whether they're accurate or not.
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Old 09-23-2011, 09:20 AM   #171
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I thought the coolant and transmission temp gauges on our Tundra hardly moved (once off the cold side pin) because the systems worked so well. I have seen them go up a bit when I was going over high passes (10,000' and up) and driving pretty fast. They move smoothly upward from a cold start and then nest in the middle virtually all the time. Whether the step up past the middle is planned to reassure us, or they are really robust cooling systems I can't say.

It is the gas gauge that drives me crazy trying to figure out just how much gas I really have—fill up the tank to the gunwales and the needle is past F, drive 20 or 30 miles and it reads 3/4, slowly drops to the middle, stays there for a while, slowly drops to 1/4, speeds up and slows down to below E. The readout that tells how many miles are left underestimates a lot. I don't know how the readout and gauge are linked except that they are both wrong a lot.

As to Ford, the mechanic who worked on my truck a while back told me he'd be out of business if it weren't for Fords—they are the bulk of his income. It's true that there are a lot of 150's and thus a lot of used ones and broken ones, but he spoke of all Fords, not just 150's, plus there aren't that many 150's compared to the other full size trucks that they should be an overwhelming part of the business, or low mileage repos or used cars.

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Old 09-23-2011, 09:51 AM   #172
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The eco-boost has sure created a stir in the market.
It is interesting that in the recent TrailerLife® review, they did not give it very high marks for towing (and it is not often they diss a vehicle in their reviews) yet, in the Motor Trend® comparo of all of Fords currently available light duty (1/2 ton) trucks (4 different power plants) they rated it more similar in performance to the 6.2 L than the 5.4 L (which they had assumed would be a closer performance match!).
If I were in the market for a light duty Ford…I would seriously be looking at the EB…more for its torque curve than for any efficiency gains (but that’s a small bonus as well). I think it’s a winner for smaller, ½ ton sized loads, or those that tow infrequently.
Both good reads above..check 'em our if you are interested.
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:20 AM   #173
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The eco-boost has sure created a stir in the market.
I think it’s a winner for smaller, ½ ton sized loads, or those that tow infrequently.[/SIZE][/FONT]
I think Bill's qualified ok for the EcoBoost may be the safe way to go.

We tow 10-15,000 miles per year, so we need a truck with a trustworthy engine and all the rest.

What would the EcoBoost package do with the smallest V8? Would there be better mileage (though probably not like the V6) plus plenty of capacity for many miles of towing?

Gene
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:55 AM   #174
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The eco-boost has sure created a stir in the market.
It is interesting that in the recent TrailerLife® review, they did not give it very high marks for towing (and it is not often they diss a vehicle in their reviews) yet, in the Motor Trend® comparo of all of Fords currently available light duty (1/2 ton) trucks (4 different power plants) they rated it more similar in performance to the 6.2 L than the 5.4 L (which they had assumed would be a closer performance match!).
If I were in the market for a light duty Ford…I would seriously be looking at the EB…more for its torque curve than for any efficiency gains (but that’s a small bonus as well). I think it’s a winner for smaller, ½ ton sized loads, or those that tow infrequently.
Both good reads above..check 'em our if you are interested.
Which TrailerLife review are you referring to?

In this one: First Drive: Fort F-150 Twin-Turbo EcoBoost from 13 Sept, it seems that the only really negative thing they had to say about it was that it needs a bigger fuel tank than 26 gallons. They have a poorly-worded section about it fuel mileage when towing, saying that fuel mileage diminishes "to a certain and justifiable point" and then somewhat later say "much more fuel was consumed" in the hills, but they don't actually offer any numbers or any relative comparison beyond that. As I've written many times before, you can't get around the physics of the situation, when you're doing lots of work it requires lots of fuel, the appropriate comparison is against other trucks with similar output towing similar trailers, not kvetching about the fact that it doesn't get 22mpg when towing a flatnosed SOB.
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Old 09-23-2011, 11:03 AM   #175
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I think Bill's qualified ok for the EcoBoost may be the safe way to go.

We tow 10-15,000 miles per year, so we need a truck with a trustworthy engine and all the rest.

What would the EcoBoost package do with the smallest V8? Would there be better mileage (though probably not like the V6) plus plenty of capacity for many miles of towing?

Gene
I don't think EcoBoost would make sense in an F150 with the 5.0L. It might in an F250/F350, though. It seems like 365 hp and 420 lb-ft is plenty for a "half ton" and an EcoBoost 5.0 would probably make on the order of 600 hp and 500+ lb-ft. (The old-tech Shelby puts out 550 hp/510 lb-ft without direct injection and using a single blower, and the normally-aspirated Coyote in the Boss 302 rates at 444 hp/380 lb-ft.)

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~~
As to Ford, the mechanic who worked on my truck a while back told me he'd be out of business if it weren't for Fords—they are the bulk of his income. It's true that there are a lot of 150's and thus a lot of used ones and broken ones, but he spoke of all Fords, not just 150's, plus there aren't that many 150's compared to the other full size trucks that they should be an overwhelming part of the business, or low mileage repos or used cars.

Gene
At least one of the Ford models that made mechanics lots of money over time was the Taurus. It used to be the best-selling sedan before the Camry took over, and several years had bad transmissions and bad AC systems.
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Old 09-23-2011, 11:11 AM   #176
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I don't think EcoBoost would make sense in an F150 with the 5.0L.
How come?

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Old 09-23-2011, 11:15 AM   #177
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How come?

Gene
As I said, I think 600+ hp in a "half ton" is overkill. I also think the boosted DI 5.0 would at best get the same mileage as the regular 5.0, but you can't make 600 hp for free so mileage would drop when you're actually making all that silly amount of power.
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Old 09-23-2011, 12:00 PM   #178
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I agree 600 hp is unnecessary for most sane people, but if the EcoBoost isn't enough engine for a lot of towing and a lot of heavy loads, but is fine for lighter use, wouldn't a bigger engine work better for that with having one that has crazy power? Or a limiter on use of all that power? Of course, dragging Porsches while towing and winning would be a great ego boost (hmmm, same initials as EcoBoost).

Maybe the 5.0 L isn't the right combination, but what is the right combination if you want an engine that will last a long time and tow a lot? Maybe a bigger V6 or a smaller V8 would be the right one. Maybe you have to have 600 hp to get all this. What would you design if asked to by a major truck company? I'd want more payload in a half ton (maybe a 5/8 ton) with softer ride than a 3/4 ton, lots of torque, great gas mileage, low price, reliability, great brakes, full tow package, bullet proof engine and rest of drive train plus excellent brakes. For those with heavier trailers, a 3/4 ton model.

I'm sure you sacrifice some gas mileage to get this, but still should come out better than present V8 configurations for mileage. With the EcoBoost you don't get substantially better mileage while towing a heavy contemporary trailer, maybe exact same mileage as our truck. If you need a truck for frequent heavy use but don't need more than a 1/2 ton, the EcoBoost may not be the right selection. Maybe the small V8 with one turbo would work better overall.

All truck companies have to solve this in the next few years because of increased mileage standards. GM has apparently decided to go another route instead of turbo. I'm not sure what Dodge or Toyota are doing. I don't know that Nissan, Honda or anyone else is interested in this market anymore.

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Old 09-23-2011, 12:08 PM   #179
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what is the right combination if you want an engine that will last a long time and tow a lot?
Start with a D...ends with an L...
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Old 09-23-2011, 12:12 PM   #180
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Gene I think what you want is a good idea, but I don't think the market will support it. A 5 liter with mild boost, maybe 450 ft. lbs of torque at 2K RPM, 400 HP. Ruggedness first priority, output second. I'd even go for a milder version with 350 HP if it meant underhood simplicity and serviceability combined with mild loadings and thermal stress. But for whatever reason the market could care less about that stuff.

Heck the market endorsed diesel pickups which require pulling cab for routine work.

I must be on a different planet.
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Old 09-23-2011, 12:13 PM   #181
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Start with a D...ends with an L...
Good try Bill. The context is gas engines.

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Old 09-23-2011, 12:15 PM   #182
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I think it remains to be seen whether or not the 3.5L EcoBoost will be a short-life engine. Its output is about right for a powerful half-ton, and the magic will be in dissipating heat and the durability of the various castings and forgings. I'm not likely to buy another truck for 4 years or so, if the early EcoBoosts that have been used as real trucks are doing well then it'll certainly be on my list. If I'd been in the new market vs. used early this year, I would have evaluated it. I would certainly have considered an extended warranty on it, and I never consider that on a new vehicle, but this year both of the "middle" F150 engines were new so I might have bought used or another brand even if I had lots of money.

If I had new-truck money in the budget in the spring, I might well have ended up with a Tundra, but I think the used-market prices on Tundras are a bit too high, and there were very slim pickings of 2007s in the used market, and 2008 prices were higher than I liked on most all the used trucks (I bought an '07, as you can see in my sig.)
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