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Old 10-10-2004, 10:23 AM   #1
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Ford Explorer and CCD 22 or 25

I am considering the purchase of either an International CCD 22 or 25 and I would like to tow this with an Explorer. I am planning on the purchase of a used Explorer with a V8 and tow package. I have found a lot of good information on this site about calculating how much a vehicle can tow and I am working out the numbers now. It looks like the 22 is not an issue and the 25 is probably OK. The Explorer has a short wheel base, I think 113 or 114 inches and I have found less information on the relationship of wheelbase to trailer length. Can a vehicle with this wheelbase handle these size trailers? What are the concerns of using a short wheelbase vehicle for towing? If anyone is using one of these combinations I would like to hear about their experience.

Why an Explorer? The Explorer is our full size family car and is used in the city and for navigating narrower forest and farm roads and in both cases I find a larger vehicle is not as convient to use. I am not set on this but would like to explore my options before deciding to move up.

Thanks.
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Old 10-10-2004, 12:01 PM   #2
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Need more info. What is the GCVWR of the Explorer? This is hard to find since Ford doesn't publish it.

The short wheelbase would be a problem. Both between the front and rear wheels and from side to side. Having those wheels close together makes the TV more septible to the pressures from the tralier. Think how the old Jeep was septible to roll-overs because of its short wheelbases.

If you haven't seen this thread, then read everything RoadKingMoe says. Very educational. http://www.airforums.com/forum...+denali+handle
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Old 10-10-2004, 12:08 PM   #3
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Cool Pulling stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by lapowers57
I am considering the purchase of either an International CCD 22 or 25 and I would like to tow this with an Explorer. I am planning on the purchase of a used Explorer with a V8 and tow package. I have found a lot of good information on this site about calculating how much a vehicle can tow and I am working out the numbers now. It looks like the 22 is not an issue and the 25 is probably OK. The Explorer has a short wheel base, I think 113 or 114 inches and I have found less information on the relationship of wheelbase to trailer length. Can a vehicle with this wheelbase handle these size trailers? What are the concerns of using a short wheelbase vehicle for towing? If anyone is using one of these combinations I would like to hear about their experience.

Why an Explorer? The Explorer is our full size family car and is used in the city and for navigating narrower forest and farm roads and in both cases I find a larger vehicle is not as convient to use. I am not set on this but would like to explore my options before deciding to move up.

Thanks.
We just ordered a 22' CCD (and in the imortal words of Homer Simpson "Woo Hoo") and did our research on this website and in a book called "How to Select, Inspect, and Buy an RV". We have decided to purchase a '99 Sierra 1500 with towing package, V8, 5.3 L, with 3.73 ratio. The book mentioned above recommends that the wheel base of the tow vehicle be at least one half the length of the trailer. The truck we selected has a wheel base slightly longer than that. However none of this is from any personnel experience. YMMV, IMHO etc. Once we get the trailer and hook it up I guess we will know for sure. Thanks for the opportunity to make the waters muddier.
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Old 10-10-2004, 02:23 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by schaumannk
We have decided to purchase a '99 Sierra 1500 with towing package, V8, 5.3 L, with 3.73 ratio.
Your truck will pull the 22' CCD in great style. I had the same truck/engine when I had my 22' AS (a sister to the 22' CCD), but my truck had 3.42 rear end. It was barely acceptable to me with the 3.42, but should work great with the 3.73. I ended up putting a Banks system on my truck to get acceptable performance.

Back to the Explorer. What year is it? Does it have the old turn paint-side down suspension or the current suspension? What is the engine size? What is the rear end ratio? What is the GCVWR of the Explorer?

The 22' Internationals have a very high tongue load proportionately and with the tandem axles are are very sway resistant, so that I would worry less about wheelbase length (given appropriate sway equipment) than I would worry about GCVWR and whether your Explorer has the old or the new suspension.
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Old 10-10-2004, 05:35 PM   #5
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The 22' might be possible, but I wouldn't do it based on towing a 25 footer with a 118" wheelbase. It wasn't very fun. Sure it had power and all the cooling it needed, BUT....one wind gust (that first time) and you will crap you pants! After that, you'll be all happy going about 60 and a wind gust will grab ya....wakes you up REALLY fast! 25 feet of trailer with the tow vehicle you are considering would, IMHO be an extremely bad idea having been there myself. I wouldn't go larger than 19' (and really 16' would be almost no issue at all) with that small of a wheelbase, but I know folks do it. Makes it neither safe or the right thing to do. I tried to cut a few corners myself, only in the end to do the correct thing and get a tow vehicle robust enough in size, power, wheelbase, etc to do the job correctly. Horsepower and tow packages are only part of the equation. Some folks don't realize how much wheelbase can help keep the rig stable. Wind is a rigs worst friend IMHO. I think it can be offset by 3 main things really. Correct wheelbase for the coach, good hitch system, mated with a seasoned towing driver. Perosnally, I don't think anyone should do it without any of the three.

Also that wreck we saw this summer with someone doing almost exactly what you propose also made the decsion to spend the money on a better tow vehicle that much easier.
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Old 10-10-2004, 05:53 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
I wouldn't go larger than 19' (and really 16' would be almost no issue at all) with that small of a wheelbase, but I know folks do it.
I agree that a 16' would be no hassle at all; not enough weight and side area to make much trouble.

Actually, I believe that the 22' with the tandem axle would be less of a problem than the 19'. My 22' International was so stable that I never noticed the couple of times that I forgot to install the sway bar over a full day of towing. The tandem axles and the low CG (14" wheels help there) really add up to a stable platform.
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Old 10-10-2004, 08:19 PM   #7
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I am pulling a 23 ft. tandem axle Safari (4800 lbs on the road) with an 04 Ford Explorer. I downsized from an F250 Super Duty for the reasons you mention - too big, especially in the city, and not very maneuverable, not to mention the lousy gas mileage when unloaded, which is most of the time for me. The Explorer is a great vehicle to drive but is not the optimum tow vehicle for this size trailer. It is a relatively short-term situation for me as I plan eventually to go down to a smaller trailer for weekend camping only.

Actually, the Explorer was redesigned in 2002 with a wider track, independent rear supension, and several other characteristics that allow it to tow quite well, in terms of stability, for what it is (mid-size SUV). Mine has a Class III/IV tow package that includes a bunch of coolers and 3.73 gears. I use a WD hitch and get fairly minimal sway from passing semis, wind gusts, etc, but you do know it is there, especially compared to a big truck. In bigger crosswinds and gusts you have to keep an eye on it, but it never gets scary. However, I would not tow anything larger, especially the 25 ft, which is wider, longer and 1000 lbs heavier. I think it would be really marginal, especially in the mountains or heavy winds.

My bigger concern is whether the drivetrain will hold up. My GCWR with the V6 4x4 is 10,000 lbs and I am at 9600 on the scales when travelling. Just under rear axle cap by 300 lbs, and just under rear hitch rating also. Even though the V8 has a higher GCWR, it really doesn't solve any of these other limitations. The V6 has enough power, but the new 5 speed (5r55e) trans is the big question mark. It comes with either the V6 or V8 and is rated for slightly less torque than the older 4r70W, which was prone to failure as most of us know.

I would not recommend pulling anything beyond 22 ft., especially if you have a pre-2002 Explorer.

-john
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