Ford Excursion Diesel

[Silverfoxrae]

First I will apologise if this has appeared already in the past. I seem to not be overly skilled with the search option. Might have something to do with my laptop that seems possessed. Every time I click on the search box, it disappears. "no! you can't do that..."

ANYway... I just found out that I have to change out my turbo in my exCURsion, and honestly I am not technologically able to give the "lingo". My truck's an '04 with a 6.0L and 67K miles. I bought it last fall. By all appearances it's immaculate.

The first indication that there was a potential issue was the night of my birthday. This is after the brakes went out on the Chevy pickup I was driving earlier in the day.... I started the Cur and it stalled. So I started it again and went to put it into gear and there wasn't a whle lotta power. Then it caught on and leaped into action (literally). It did this slow to take off stuff for a few miles and I thought that maybe getting it to "blow out the carb" might help, so I zoomed it along a bit, taking it up on the highway instead of backroads and then off the exit. At the bottom of the exit ramp, waiting for the light, the rpms dropped and when I went to depress the pedal, it didn't respond. At all. The low gear ratio allowed me to roll off the main road. I shut her down and waited a while and when restarted, she drove somewhat normal (but a bit sluggish) home. I dumped a bunch of fuel conditioner in there, thinking maybe there was bad diesel or something. The Cur ran fine the following few days until the appointment at the Ford place. They diagnosed it - I'm guessing by a computer.
Needless to say it's a bummer, but I'm curious if anyone else had anything like this happen to them,
AND if there's anything I can do to help it not happen again?


*I need that $$$$ for my Airstream, darnit !!!

Rae

[JakeSpoon]

I've heard the 6.0L are much more problematic than the previous 7.3L. 67K sounds way too premature for a problem of this magnitude. What are they estimating it's going to cost to repair it?

[newsgauger]

Hello,

I'm not an expert in diesel mechanics, but a friend of mine had the same problem and what he learned was that his engine had more hours on it than miles, as it was left idling day and night.

Therefore, lots of hours but little miles and that is what caused the turbo to fail.

Ask the mechanic to check the clock.

[2airishuman]

hi rae...

a LOT depends on the nature of the the failure.

turbos need some warm up time and some cool down time,

after working hard.

they also need GOOD CLEAN OIL.

many things can go bad related to the turbo (see the list of parts and pick some)

but typically it's heat, coking, poor lubrication, or rupture somewhere along the air system (clamps, hoses, valves)

bearings can fail in the turbos 2ndary to heat, no cool down, and oil issues.

the wicked HIGH exhaust temps and the fact that this EXHAUST gas is recirculated into the turbo (for emissions) REALLY stress the turbo parts.

my understanding is the exc' has some bits that are different than the truck 6.0s.

for example space limits the down pipe so it's smaller.

the turbo is also slightly smaller or at least the air chambers for it.
___________

a failure should "throw codes" but the mechanic also needs to understand HOW to interpret those codes.

visual inspection by the mechanic adds to the computer info, don't rely on ONE without the other...

you SHOULD be able to get a printout of the diagnostic info and the fault codes...

any powerstroke trained mechanic can interpret the codes, but that's only part of the picture.

the turbo was part of the original 100,000/5 year diesel warranty but you are past the time limit now.
___________

get the codes and the mechanics explanation of WHAT has failed, the expected parts to replace and so on...

then join the yahoo POWERSTROKE GROUP...

the group is here...

PowerStroke : '99+6.0/6.4/7.3 Diesel S-Duty,Van &Excsn

after joining, post your question, something line...

6.0 diesel excursion turbo failure help...

begin by describing the vehicle basics, then describe the problem...

then offer up ANY info from the mechanic...

the fellow who reads/answers most questions is charles ledger?

he's a master mechanic and extremely versed on this drivetrain.

he may ask you for more info, and if that happens SUPPLY answers.

he does an amazing job with cyber solving and explanations.

others may offer up useful info too, but pay attention to his replies.
__________

preventing turbo failure revolves around CLEAN fresh oil, proper warm up/cool downs...

paying attention to the BOOST psi, avoiding LONG periods of idling and so on...

luck is also needed since there are some parts on THIS setup which are acknowledge issues.

let us know how it goes.

cheers
2air'

[87MH]

Originally Posted by Silverfoxrae

... I just found out that I have to change out my turbo in my exCURsion,'m curious if anyone else had anything like this happen to them, AND if there's anything I can do to help it not happen again?

The 6.0 was known to have problems - don't feel like the Lone Ranger - LOTS of people with stories like yours - including injectors, EGR cooling issues, and wire loom/connector failures leading to the "limp home" mode.

Let's hope that the 6.7 liter Ford design does better - so far it seems to be a winner.

These Forums may be of interest to you in addition to 2air's recommendation:

Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php

Ford Truck Forum also has a section exclusively for Excursion related threads - I have found it useful in dealing with the minor issues found so far with my Tow Vehicle.

Don't write off the Ford v-10 as a viable option to a Diesel tow - just remember that the cumulative idiots in Washington knee jerk reaction the BP spill (onerous offshore drilling requirements - 80 different non-thought-out bills submitted in the past few weeks) will undoubtedly drive up the price of ALL fuels in the coming years.

[Dakota's Dad]

Generally, a rebuilt turbo is in the $500-$700 range. Depending on the mounting location, a fairly easy repair.

But generally, a turbo doesn't fail in the way you describe, the turbocharger itself is a fairly simple machine, my guess is there is a problem with a supporting part, waste gate or exhaust recirc valve or something.

[handn]

2004 was the first year of the 6.0 and there were more troubles with engines made in that year than with those made in later years. But the good news is that it isn't a 2007 and later engine will all the power and fuel economy robbing emissions crap.
Clean diesel Excursions are hard to find and pricey. They hold their value well. I have a 2000 and the blue book value has dropped very little in the past several years and the vehicle is still servicable despite logging almost 200 thousand miles. You have a low mileage example which adds to value.
My advice is to find a good independent mechanic and make the repairs necessary to put yours in top condition. Log on to cartalk.com and view their data base of mechanics with customer comments. Call and interview highly rated shops. Make sure a shop you select has a good diesel mechanic on staff. An independent will save you money over a dealer because the shop rate is lower and the independent will use after market parts if they are available and as good or better than factory parts.
Even if the repairs are costly, you will be money ahead to fix your vehicle. It is one of the all time best tow vehicles. For a case of sticker shock, price a new 3/4 ton Suburban and consider what you will loose in depreciation over the initial three years of ownership. Cost of repair will be chump change compared to depreciation on a new vehicle.

[Silverfoxrae]

Just a brief post-- I am paying attention, but just waylaid with my husband's mom in the hospital. I am replacing the turbo. I am going to get details so I can explain and understand exactly, but I know it's the part of the turbo that is effected by the exhaust end of things. My oil is Amsoil and is changed about every 3000 since I've owned the vehicle- last fall, including all filters. I try to always put in the fuel conditioner too, but have not always had it every fill up. There has been a recent water in the fuel issue that has hopefully also been resolved.
But-- I will be back with this and I will join the groups and learn more...
Just have to deal with what's happening right now with John's mom.
So, "I'll be back..."

Rae

[cmkirkland]

Don't be so quick to replace that turbo. What you may be experiencing is a faulty gas pedal. Those trucks have what is know as throttle by wire. If there is an electrical problem within the throttle assembly, the symptom is engine stays at idle. My experience with this condition: To get it to move, I had to hold the pedal to the metal, and be prepared to back off when the engine comes alive. Not the safest thing but, will get you moving. You may have to work it back and forth to keep somewhat of a steady speed, to get it to the service shop.
And for the records, Don't let anyone scare you about the 6.0 power stroke. Its a great engine. Most problems were created when greedy owners made modifications for more power, not realizing that Ford already had it fairly hopped up and making plenty power. Another interesting fact is, Ford ignored International Harvesters advice to not set the bar so high.

[Silverfoxrae]

Ok-- quick sum up...My husband's mom died soon after I wrote. Her was able to see her and say goodbye to her, and get her with hospice care and help her to go on to her next journey. I just haven't been able to really focus on a lot of other things....
Excursion: I was told the computer threw a code P-something 4 (believe me I had it all written down and now I am searching and can't find that paper)...
Anyway. The turbo was replaced. I went and picked the Excursion up and it was sluggish. I drove right back. The mechanic got in and as we drove it seemed to fix itself. He said that the computer has to relearn how to drive-or how I drive. I go on a seven hour trip to Maine with a carload of family members. Everything's fine until the third day when we go on a short trip to Cadillac Mountain in Acadia. After coming down the mountain and returning-- of course almost to the very high and one lane scary Bucksport bridge--- yipes-- the vehicle idle slows and stalls. I pull over and wait and it restarts. Drives fine for a bit and then I have no pedal control again. Pull over, shut down and wait. Restart and drive a while. It acts up one more time and I make it back to the house. Drives fine after that for a few days. It acts up again for the mechanic- when I brought it back! (this is good so I'm not made a fool). This time no codes but the shop says they need to reset the computer and download some new update. They tested it out for two days. Driving around the town in stop and go and hills, etc. Nothing. I pick it up and so far so good, but my confidence is a bit leery. Fortunately this isn't a HUGE danger (just a little one)-- not like loss of brakes or something. HOPEfully it won't happen again, and I WILL ask on the other forums about my experiences. Fingers crossed all is well.

Rae

[mello mike]

Hi Rae,
Sorry to hear about your MIL.

I recently sold my 2003 Ford Excursion with the 6.0L PSD. It was the best vehicle I ever owned. The only problems I had with it in the 7 years we owned it was the A/C died twice and the ICP module needed replacement. We simply outgrew the truck and downsized to an F150.

[Silverfoxrae]

Well... still not resolved. The vehicle acted like it was not getting good fuel flow and was wavering on the power, then it started acting sluggish again in the pedal, and then stalled while driving on 95. Luckily I was able to coast off an exit and pull over in a breakdown lane. I turned the key off and sat a while, restarted, it ran- crappily- rough- and sputtered to a stallout again. Subsequent attempts to restart failed. So I called aaa and had it towed back. This was saturday morning. It's about 10:30 on Monday and I haven't heard anything. So I drive down to the dealer and demand to know what's going on. They act like they weren't aware that my car was there. How can you miss a shiny gold Excursion??? Especially when it's been in a LOT all month???
I was livid. I went in and spoke with the general manager, who spoke with the shop foreman, etc. They were all assuring me that they'd deal with it-- well... nothing yet. No answers. They seem to be relying only on the computer- and it isn't saying anything. I said--it's a DEISEL engine... it needs air and fuel to run... perhaps looking at it from a mechanical vantagepoint might glean a few answers- or look at the electric parts that control the mechanical??? These guys don't seem to be very good and they absolutely stink at customer service, and if they don't have an answer for me tomorrow morning I'm getting my diagnostic printouts, my old turbo and my keys and finding another shop.
I can't believe that this is that mysterious.
But I do know that it's interferring with my confidence in my vehicle and my plans to drive places. I've never had such a shop that acts like I'm bothering them! Sorry I needed to vent!!

Rae

[Silverfoxrae]

Following up on my old thread... sorry it's been so long! I left that shop and went to another place that was recommended to me by several friends.This would have been in August 2010. Within a half-hour, the problem was discovered and a few hours later, resolved. It appears that I may have had sand put in my tank- either by a disgruntled customer of my husbands- who went off the deep end mentally when his parents died and he didn't inherit what he expected- or I had bad fuel from somewhere. At any rate, clean tank, lines, new filters and pumps... The vehicle has been fine since. It's driven approximately 5000 miles and has been fine. Thank goodness!! The diesel forums mentioned were helpful and continue to be educational, so I pass those on for anyone with Ford Powerstroke Diesels...
Rae

[Dave Park]

One rule I follow: if the tanker is delivering to the gas station (or even on the forecourt) I do not fill up there. The fresh load of diesel or gas stirs up all the sediment in the tank, and for the next half hour or so people get a lot of crud served up to them. It is possible you got this sand and sediment in your tank this way.

[StingrayL82]

Rae,

Sorry to hear about your misfortunes, both family and vehicular.

The 6.0 does have its shortcomings, however they can all be remedied. FWIW 2003 was actually the first year for the 6.0.

The Varible Geometry Turbo (VGT) on the 6.0 needs to be exercised or the vanes on the turbo will stick/freeze, leading to the need for rebuild or replacement, so every once in a while put the hammer down and go. The computer does NOT need to relearn anything, if you have the turbo replaced, so stay away from whichever mechanic told you this.

The fly-by-wire accelerator pedal is usually not a problem on the Fords...1997-2001 Dodge Ram Cummins Turbo Diesel trucks were more prone to APPS (Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor) failures...I owned a 2001 Ram and experienced it first-hand 150 miles from home.

Also, if you do a search on my screen name and something to the effect of "Attention all 6.0 owners" I did a write-up some time ago addressing a few things you can do to your 6.0 to make it more reliable.

[HowieE]

Hi Stingray L82

Can you give a better description of the address to your article. Nothing comes up as written.

[Mexray]

I think is the thread being referred to:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ers-54730.html

Ray

[StingrayL82]

That's the one...thanks Ray.

My memory is horrible...BTW, I just posted something new on that thread...good reading I got from Powerstroke.org via Dieselstop.com

[Silverfoxrae]

Cool beans. Thanks all! I plan to do some research in FL for a shop where I can get some of the mods done. Right now the trucks running swell, but since I'm now registered in FL I can do some removal/modifications that couldn't be done when the vehicle was registered in CT-- emissions, inspection, etc.

This year has been very emotional with three major family losses and lots of personal hardship challenges, but we're plowing ahead. No other choice, really... So, very-much-hopeful that 2011 will be a good year of some things coming together in a good way!!
Nice to have a support group-- Silver Family

Rae

[StingrayL82]

Rae, remember that bad things tend to happen in three's, so you're due for some positive waves.

One thing I found interesting in my ever-continuing research with the 6.0 is that it seems that the school of thought about clogged oil coolers/egr coolers now is that it is caused by the silicate in the Motorcraft Gold coolant, when it flash boils...another reason I'm glad I switched to Fleetrite ELC...EC-1 ELC's don't have silicates in them and silicates resemble sand.....soooooo, was it casting sand or Motorcraft Gold coolant all along that was the culprit? Or both?