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Old 07-01-2011, 01:45 PM   #15
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Make sure your wedges are rh and lh. Mine were not and the incorrect one would not hold tight enough. Should say lh or rh on the wedge itself. jim
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Old 07-01-2011, 02:31 PM   #16
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First thing i checked to make sure i hadnt mixed them up. And for the record im not complaining about the CIPAs because they are definately a workable low cost solution... just thinking about ways they could work even better... but i will google tundra tow mirrors as directed . .. .
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Old 07-01-2011, 05:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aftermath View Post

I am towing in 5th with the tow haul mode off. I get right at 11mpg +/- .2

Even on the flats, I feel the transmission hunting between 5th and 6th more than I am comfortable with. I will try on the next trip to use tow haul with the OD and see if that is better. I would like to get 12 like many of you are getting. I do drive in the mountains a lot though.
I have limited experience with mine so far but was trying to tune into what it was doing.

The tow haul mode did attempt to hold the gears. I believe it uses a incline sensor and at times it would drop to 5th or 4th and even backing off on throttle wouldn't upshift it. OTOH it stayed in 6 pretty well. On the drive by wire throttle, there is a whole bunch of control possible here by the computer. At one point I could hear a very strong exhaust note in 6th and I suspect the computer opened up the throttle considerably even though my foot only had the throttle cracked. It was trying to avoid a downshift. And this is the exact scenario where engine produces the most power per unit of fuel burn.

It did shift more than 3 or 4sp automatics, but it almost does that by definition. There are more ratios, and it will try for the optimum ratio. Driving these 6 sp autos in town, they're constantly shifting. I haven't been concerned about a shift per mile on the hwy. Its shifting a lot more than that in town. And on some sections of flat road it went a lot farther than a mile on a shift.

Hopefully these automatics are well designed for all the shifting they're doing. They appear to be well cooled. Both CU and True Delta had good reports for the automatic, and my previous experience with Toyota automatics has been very good.

I do like the manual control for engine braking and for throttle control of speed on twisty roads. But on long 60 mph roads I'm inclined to let the computer choose the best ratio. It should know a lot about fuel consumption curves. At least until I hear of a weakness in the transmission I need to cover for.
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Old 07-01-2011, 06:18 PM   #18
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Some Tundra owners on www.tundratalk.net are willing to swap tow mirrors for standard ones. Also, some purchase them from the Toyota Dealer in Sparks, Nevada. I'd check on that site for more ideas on where to get the best price.
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Old 07-01-2011, 06:19 PM   #19
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I found this document from '07. Possibly some changes since, nothing I noticed in the transmission contradicted any of it.

Quote:
8. Tow/Haul Control

General
During tow/haul control, the ECM controls the engine output, transmission shift schedule and shift timing to ensure drivability when a trailer is towed. The tow/haul control includes a throttle control, shift schedule control, wide open throttle shift timing control and AI-SHIFT control.
** The conditions required for tow/haul control to operate are as follows:
- Shift position: D position (Tow/haul control does not operate in the S position).
- TOW/HAUL pattern select switch: ON
** The TOW/HAUL indicator light is used to inform the driver that tow/haul control is operating.

Throttle Control
Throttle control changes the relationship between the accelerator pedal depression angle and the throttle valve opening angle.
** During tow/haul control, the throttle valve opening is increased by throttle control. As a result, acceleration performance is ensured.

Shift Schedule Control
The shift schedule control changes the upshift and downshift schedules during tow/haul control.
** For the upshift schedule, the upshift timing is changed to higher vehicle speeds, enhancing the use of lower gears. As a result, drivability is ensured.
** For the downshift schedule, the downshift timing is change to a wider throttle valve opening angle, enhancing the use of higher gears. As a result, the frequency of gear changes is reduced, allowing optimal shift quality.

Wide Open Throttle Shift Timing Control
Due to wide open throttle shift timing control, upshift timing is delayed to make use of high engine power when the accelerator pedal is fully opened.
** Wide open throttle shift control operates in 1st, 2nd and 3rd during tow/haul control.


11. AI (Artificial Intelligence)-SHIFT Control

General
In addition to shift pattern changes due to tow/haul control, AI-SHIFT control determines optimal transmission control based on input signals and automatically changes the shift pattern. As a result, a high caliber of transmission operation is achieved.
** The AI-SHIFT control includes a road condition support control and a driver’s intention support control.
** AI-SHIFT control is effect only with the shift lever in the D position, based on the accelerator and brake operation data. AI-SHIFT control will be canceled when the driver selects the S mode.

Road Condition Support Control
Under road condition support control, the ECM determines throttle valve opening angle and the vehicle speed whether the vehicle is being driven uphill or downhill.
1) When a trailer is not being towed:
** To achieve an optimal drive force while driving uphill, this control prevents the transmission from up-shifting to 4th, 5th or 6th gear.
** To achieve an optimal engine braking effect while driving downhill, this control automatically downshifts the transmission to 5th, 4th or 3rd gear.

2) When a trailer is being towed:
** To achieve an optimal drive force while driving uphill, this control prevents the transmission from up-shifting.
** To achieve an optimal engine braking effect while driving downhill, this control automatically downshifts the transmission.
** In addition to the shift pattern changes due to the road condition support control, the shift pattern is further changed when the tow/haul control is turned ON.

Driver’s Intention Support Control
1) When a trailer is not being towed Driver’s intention support control estimates the driver’s intention based on the accelerator operation and vehicle condition and selects a shift pattern that is well-suited to each driver.
2) When a trailer is being towed During tow/haul control operation, the driver’s intention support control ensures drivability while towing a trailer by determining the driver’s intention based on accelerator pedal operation and vehicle condition and performs the controls shown below:

Control= Sudden Accelerator Pedal Depress Control
Operation= When the driver operates (presses) the accelerator pedal quickly, this control causes the transmission to downshift rapidly to improve acceleration response.
Available for= 4th to 6th

Control= Sudden Accelerator Pedal Release Control
Operation= When the driver releases the accelerator quickly, this control makes it easy for the transmission to hold the gear, which improves engine braking force and re-acceleration response.
Available for= 3rd to 6th

Control= Sudden Deceleration Downshift Control
Operation= When the driver decelerates the vehicle suddenly, this control downshifts rapidly, which improves engine braking force and re-acceleration response.
Available for= 3rd to 6th

---2007 Tundra "NewCar Features" document
I find it fascinating that with drive by wire, what your foot is doing on the accelerator pedal and what the actual throttle is doing can be very different. Very cool, but very different for a guy who's first car was a '65 Chevy.
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Old 07-02-2011, 10:19 AM   #20
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We also have a Prius, and besides having accelerator and brake pedals that have every command questioned and frequently enhanced or overridden by the hybrid system computer, it has a continuously variable transmission that doesn't seem to shift.

Early on we gave up using the accelerator since the engine sounds never seemed to match what your foot was doing. We now use the cruise control almost exclusively, even in city driving, which allows the computer to set the engine speed and transmission ratio for the best economy.

We drive our 2008 Tundra CrewMax the same way and get pretty good mileage. However, it's really hard to keep your foot off the accelerator; all that extra power is intoxicating after driving the Prius.

Since our Bambi is relatively light compared to what the Tundra is rated for, we just let the cruise control and computers handle the throttle and shifts, and pretty much ignore the engine and transmission sounds, except when using engine braking, downhill.
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Old 07-02-2011, 10:30 AM   #21
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I'll bet that Tundra is a hot rod towing the Bambi. I had mine (not towing) up to 9K ft. yesterday and power still wonderful. Effortless fast acceleration. Even down nearly 30% due to altitude, it just hauled..
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Old 07-03-2011, 02:53 PM   #22
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Mirrors

The factory tow mirrors were the best purchase I made, they work great!
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:41 PM   #23
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Gotta post a pic! Taken at sunset. Truck is not hooked up.
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:52 PM   #24
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Great news - I have to tell you, my 2011 f-350 with 19" rims rides great so I guess they must have sorted out the ride a bit.

Still - sounds like you made a great choice - congrats!
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:59 PM   #25
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The F250 rode pretty well solo. I suspect some kind of harmonic due to spring rates, shock damping, wheelbase or something I else I didn't think of. Probably on a 30 it would have been a completely different picture. I wish there was a try before you buy.. more than just a short towing test, but a couple hundred miles of known roads. I'd be willing to pay any reasonable rental fee for that.
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:05 PM   #26
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Phoenix, we also have a Prius as our other car. The way I figure it, we get 55 mpg with the Prius, 15 with the Tundra for a fleet average of 35 mpg. Can't beat that!

Love my Prius.
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Old 07-04-2011, 10:24 AM   #27
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Aftermath,

Exactly... Driving our Prius as the commuter car makes our roadtrips in the Tundra affordable. The Tundra is a much more comfortable highway cruiser with so much room and the nice ride. We have a one pice metal tonneau cover and use the bed as a trunk; so the pickup is basically our station wagon/limo.

Can't beat the Prius around town though. Especially, the turning radius for parking and u-turns. We can drive down the angled parking lanes and make a u-turn straight into spots going the other way. Great car on San Francisco's narrow streets when visiting relatives (we get lost alot there).

We haven't found a grade yet that our Tundra, with 19-foot Bambi in tow, didn't have enough power to pull out and pass slower traffic. Also, it can accelerate up to the legal speed limit on grades where one really doesn't want to go that fast; e.g., the approaches to the Eisenhower Tunnel (both ways) on I-70, west of Denver. It even powered up some nine percent grades in Utah.

We are really happy with our Tundra/Bambi combination, and I don't think there is any place it won't go. If the Tundra will make it, our Airstream will go, even on length-restricted roads with hairpin turns. (Both are just under 20 feet in length, and under 40 feet total.)
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:28 AM   #28
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Drove back from Bishop CA. to OC. 395 to Victorville area, then 15 to 91. Fuel economy 13.6 calculated, 14.1 on the info readout. Approx. 3000 ft. elevation loss on this trip and very little city driving. About 12.8 for 600 mile round trip towing. Avg. speed approx 57. Mid grade fuel-didn't want any chance of knock retard. I'll refine the numbers more in the future with GPS verification of speedometer. Generally the speedometers are optimistic. The best fuel economy was on the 395 portion between Bishop and Coso jct. Thin air, lots of steady 1500 rpm 6th gear, early morning, no wind or traffic, cruise control, slight loss of elevation. Readout at times showed over 15 MPG. The poorest fuel economy on the trip was from the jct of hwy 14 to the top of Cajon pass. Rolling terrain and small mountain passes at times required lockout of 6th and lots of time in 5th and some time in 4th. Engine speeds to 3700 RPM to maintain 58 mph (3rd) on a steeper grade.

I'm going to predict that this truck (and probably Ford ecoboost) can get 13 mpg on flat roads, steady high 50s speed, no wind in their overdrive 6th gear towing a 25. While the real world doesn't often provide such optimum conditions, it can at times. Especially if you try to minimize wind with early morning departures. I've encountered it in CA central valley, from so. CA to Phoenix area, and nearly that from so. CA to Las Vegas and southern Utah ( a couple of 4K passes).

I think I've struck a nice balance for a light to moderate user. I will not wear out an engine before age related issues set in (electrical, rubber, etc.).Recent years I've towed about 2-3K per year, and max years have been about 5K. The Tundra handles the 25' Airstream well, it is no more affected by passing semis or wind than my previous F250. It rides better and doesn't porpoise on the freeways when towing. It is more pleasant to drive when disconnected from trailer-it handles better, rides better, and is quieter.

If I was a very heavy user with very high towing mileage, I'd still consider a 250 diesel. First for the extra 3 mpg fuel economy. For the feeling the weight of the trailer would never contribute to significant extra wear on the engine or other drivetrain components. For the torque and power. For performance at very high elevations.
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