F350- 4x4- 6.7L Diesel- Short Bed- Snug Top- 25' International

[Ray Eklund]

Trading in my 5.7L 2012 Tundra with Snug Top, Crew Max and those familiar with those Diesel fans and the F250 and F350 posts on this Forum... I made the change from 1/2 ton Tundra to a 1 ton Ford.

The ONE ton Ford has an extra leaf spring that lists on the 'sticker' for $400, or so over the F250 half ton. You are buying a pair of leaf springs to get a full ton.

I have driven 2114 miles. The first 500 for breaking in the engine before towing. the majority afterwards towing our 25 foot International Airsteam, fully loaded for a two week camping Adventure into Wyoming and the High Country. Elevations in the 5000 to 10,000 feet of Colorado and Wyoming.

Towing the 25 footer with the Tundra 5.7L Gas and the Ford 6.7L Diesel seem to run MPG in the 9 to 12 range consistently while towing at Elevation. (Yes Texans may get more MPG, but I am camping in Colorado and Wyoming on this report.)

-As far as MPG I find no advantage to either. Many places are charging more for Diesel.

-As far as POWER towing a fully stocked fresh water, food, provisions and hardware... the F350 blows the Tundra out of the race... going up a mountain.

-As far as LOAD capacity between the half ton Tundra and the ton F350... the Tundra will 'always' be at the limits of its Cargo Limits. ALWAYS... The Ford has so much excess capacity it is not even a fair comparison.

-As far as maintenance, the Tundra is simple. The Diesel... there are more filters and added costs to operate and maintain. The Tundra has the distinct advantage in this area.

-Braking... the Diesel has a large advantage using the Engine Braking. It saves on the tow vehicle's brakes and the trailer's brakes descending steep mountain passes.

Since this is long, I will make a second post quickly to sum all of this up. I have owned the 2012 Tundra Crew Max since new and traded it in for the Ford F350 new.

[Ray Eklund]

Summation of my TWO months of owning the Ford F350.

With nothing in tow the MPG best in Denver in the 5,000 to 6,500 feet elevation: 15.2mpg. Going the speed limits in the 65 to 75mpg. RPM seems to hang in at 1700.

The slow start from a start, not towing or towing, with the Diesel will catch you by surprise. But, once you are rolling the TURBO is impressive. The Tundra, starts out quick and is equally impressive when NOT towing.

The Diesel towing seems to just want to climb any mountain pass with ease. The Turbo will maintain what ever speed you want to maintain. You will also watch the MPG dropping one tenth MPG as you maintain speed, as well.

My towing fully loaded was in the range of 8.2 to 12.2 mpg. This is traveling slower on dirt and faster on Interstates. Anyone getting better towing on the Interstate or highways, with or without head winds, cross winds... recheck your numbers. I was trying to get into the 14 and up mpg with no success. Maybe needed a tail wind of 35mph Wyoming wind... but even then no success.

The ride is stiff with the E Rated Michelins and suspension on the Ford. It is a wonderful experience to tow with this truck. The Tundra always was borderline for cargo limitations and you always have that in mind. The Ford... as long as you are not pinching spare change to operate... it just seems to be able to handle anything.

Make your comparisons of my four years with the Tundra and my July to September experience with the Ford F350.

The biggest Ford advantage is the Cargo Limit.

No fuel advantage in my experience to this point, but maybe that could improve.

The Ford and Tundra towed the 25 foot International with ease. The Ford... with no effort up mountain passes. The Tundra... downshifting to maintain speed.

As I accumulate more experience, maybe something startling will come to mind. So far... the additional cost of the Diesel is more for the power and the braking coming down a mountain pass.

If money is not object... go the F250 or F350. The diesel costs more and the maintenance seems to be a challenge when reading the operator's manual.

My opinion at this moment. I find the F350 a wonderful truck and tow vehicle. I found the Tundra's overall performance... Excellent.

I like the EXCESSIVE power and load capacity of the F350. Now... it is how reliable the Ford Truck is over the Tundra.

I have had ZERO issues with the Tundra since my first in 2006 4.7L and the 2012 5.7L. The 4.7L pulled the 23 footer and the 5.7L pulled the 25 footer.

If you chose one over the other, Tundra has proved reliable, even when carrying excess loads for its rating. If my change to Ford is the same... I will be one happy camper!

[Ray Eklund]

One last comment and I will shut up.

The Ford's interior made my 2012 Tundra appear... plain and Spartan. The Ford has more computer options built within and will take some time to understand.

The Tundra's GPS was superior showing small National Forest and BLM roads when Off the Grid. The Ford was not very detailed in that area... yet. Could be an upgrade or one of many computer settings.

The F150 with Eco Boost was very impressive, but the Cargo Limit was what forced me to step into the 3/4 to 1 ton Fords. For a smaller Airstream the F150 has plenty of power with the V6 Eco Boost. Just watch the Cargo Limit. The suspension will take a toll if you tow a lot. I would have been better keeping with the large Tundra's with the 5.7L gas versus the F150.

[drboyd]

That Ford would just pull the heck out of my coach. You don't happen to leave it parked outside with the keys in it, do you?

[Ray Eklund]

Originally Posted by drboyd

That Ford would just pull the heck out of my coach. You don't happen to leave it parked outside with the keys in it, do you?

******

The 2016 F350 key can start the truck remotely. It also shuts down after thirty minutes and doors remain locked. Obviously for the very lazy owner...

At the Tucson Rock Show in February, the Ford F250 and I would have to assume, the F350 older models... are stolen out of the parking lots during the show. It is popular with those taking them back to Mexico.

My friend whose F250 (late 70's or early 80's) was stolen from outside his motel room where they had their show. It was found a month later... in Phoenix.

I have to look at it this way. If the F Series Fords are popular with Truck Thieves for selling parts off of them or 'exporting'... they must be popular.

My friend's F250 was used for years hauling rock out of the Fossil Fish Beds of western Wyoming. There could not have been much to steal... although the best parts on this well used and abused truck... his tires and wheels. It sat on blocks in Phoenix with no tires and the steering wheel / key access was torn out to hot wire it. It is back in Wyoming. New wheels and tires and still looking like it is on its last... leg.

[Tn Traveler]

Ray, the F 150 heavy duty payload package increases the payload by 670#. For a total payload of 2.900#. That's with the 3.5 Ecoboost engine. It also increases towing capacity to 10,800#. Do you think that would be sufficient?

[Meeks]

Ray, I have a 2014 Tundra (1794 edition CrewMax) and love it. The only place I have "wanted", and knew before I purchased so did so with eyes open and no regrets thanks to this forum, is the easier downhill grades utilizing brakes and engine braking one gets with 3/4 and one ton trucks.
So, please keep up your updates as I appreciate the side-by-side comparison!

[SCOTTinNJ]

I have no personal experience with a diesel engine but my assumption is that you need a good 10,000 miles or more to fully break it in. Your MPG should increase then.

[Ray Eklund]

Originally Posted by Tn Traveler

Ray, the F 150 heavy duty payload package increases the payload by 670#. For a total payload of 2.900#. That's with the 3.5 Ecoboost engine. It also increases towing capacity to 10,800#. Do you think that would be sufficient?

*******

I looked at the model in the Showroom that was the... Platinum? Absolutely a beautiful truck... although, calling it a truck gives many the wrong image. Then test drove a similar F150 Ecoboost to get an idea of handling with the double cab. For a V-6 it was an eye opener for power, as many on this Thread have commented.

I have no experience towing with anything other than: a 23 foot with a Tundra 4.7L and a 5.7L and the 25 foot with the 5.7L Tundra and now the 6.7L F350.

- The 4.7L pulled the 23 foot Safari very well.
- The 5.7L Tundra... with ease.
- The 5.7L Tundra towing the 25 Foot International would do a lot of downshifting on Colorado's passes, but on flat highway... excellent.

- The F350 Diesel does all of the above and...
Engine braking which is great living in the Rocky Mountains.
Excess power if you are in a hurry going up a Mountain Pass.
Excess cargo capacity.
Maybe 20% less fuel economy when unloaded compared to the 5.7L Tundra.
About the same fuel economy towing as the 5.7L Tundra.

For you Tundra owners. The 2007 and later 5.7L Tundras have better turning radius than the smaller pre-2007 4.7L Tundras. It surprised me, too!

When the 2012 Tundra and 25 foot International was fully loaded for camping and the Equalizer was attached, you could tell that the rear suspension was riding stiffer than necessary. This was to get the front end down enough and not riding low in the back. The Trailer was traveling level, but the 2012 Tundra was sitting down more than I wanted. Thus the hunt for a Ford...

Since I had been driving Toyota 4x4 vehicles since 1981, they were trouble free until exceeding 100,000 to 140,000 miles. But that is another story...

I go into the garage to get something or other and see that Maroon F350 sitting there and want to take it somewhere pulling our trailer. How lucky can someone be to have a wife willing to let her husband try different 'guy toy' in retirement? At least it is not a boat. She is not that understanding...

If my Ford F350 Diesel does not perform as well as my Toyotas... I might have to do some soul searching and eat 'crow' if needed.

[Rgentum]

Ray --- I'm a little surprised about your mpg amounts. My experience with our 2015 Ram 2500 diesel:

1. No towing: Filled up in Seattle. Drove to Portland at 60-65 mph, unloaded except for two people, two dogs, & some camping gear. Filled up in Portland. Got 22 mpg.

2. Towing AS 27 FB: From Seattle, drove to AS rally in WV & back home, typically 60-65 mph. Total 9K miles. Calculated mpg based on total fuel used: 14.1 mpg.

[Ray Eklund]

Rgentum... I am also surprised. As ScottinNJ said 'give it 10,000 miles to break in'. I am educating myself on a Diesel each day I am on the road! A steep learning curve and being very careful to 'grab the green diesel pump'.

When I filled the tank, some on the Ford site spoke of the digital readout on the dash for MPG and gallons used was not even close. Well... in my case it was pretty much exact or a couple tenths of a gallon off. I have not checked around to find out how others are finding their 6.7L Diesel mileage.

I WAS expecting 15mpg or better. I seem to have 1700 RPM at 65 to 70 mph. At first I thought I might have the HUBS locked, which I did NOT. It had 10 miles on the odometer, so it was not a gas hog that someone else decided not to purchase.

Dodge has the Cummins Diesel so that might be the difference.

If asked to pick up a dozen eggs or a loaf a bread, I will drive to Colorado Springs for an I-25 Up and Over... I can get a better idea of mpg.

To beat the immediate depreciated value on a new truck, I will be driving this for a number of years.

[2012FB]

There is nothing like towing with A 2500 diesel set the cruise up hill down hill relaxed and care free. You don't need 80psi in your E rated tired. I had the dealer reprogram mine at 65 and I leave it there even towing. I don't have but a couple hundred pounds in the bed with a ProPride and 30' Bunk. Makes a big difference.


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[Boxite]

A couple of things come to mind when considering a move from a half-ton to a 3/4 or 1-ton truck...

1) The heavier truck is disadvantaged with the loss of independent 4-wheel suspension. In order to carry such loads the suspension is compromised.

2) If your truck does not downshift when going up increasing grades or when accelerating... it's improperly-geared. In other words, it's got the wrong transmission/rear-axle combo... it needs another over-drive or it is running too many RPMs on easy, level roads.

Here's an intelligent article written in RV Lifestyle magazine that gave me a reason to re-think a bit about this subject:
http://rvlifemag.com/towing-half-ton-three-quarter-ton/

[sheriff1]

Caution: dodge owners lie about mpg...


2015 F350 CC 4X4 6.7 Diesel
2010 27FB Silver Cloud "The Silver Spoon"

[Ray Eklund]

These are great comparisons for others to follow!

I am just learning and have nothing to add, other than from my current learning curve. Give me a couple years and I will have a handle on all of this.

The 3.55 locking axle seemed reasonable for a truck of this size, although I may have to dig a bit deeper to know if that is what I have on the window sticker. There could be a 'button' I have yet to discover to do something...

As I discover more about this truck, I may as well get it out on this Thread.

I found one thing that I am working with. With the snug top, the tail gate has lots of air showing and 'sucks the dust' into the bed. Will find some way to stick some strips of dense foam rubber and slow down the excess dust being removed from the country roads.

Six speed transmission and as I recall when doing highway speeds, I am in fifth. Will pay more attention as I learn... I found flying an TH55A Helicopter at Ft. Wolters, Texas in 1969 easier to handle! ( I also get Motion Sickness...)

[Moflash]

My first tow vehicle for our 28ft International was a New 2010 F150 SuperCrew 4x4 Supercrew.I t pulled ok but was on the edge of payload capacity and I was not comfortable towing with it after 15000 miles of towing I traded for a new 2012 F350 6.7td Supercrew Lwb 4x4 and wow what a difference in the towing experience.It felt a lot comfortable towing in the mountains and never feels taxed in any towing situation.
After 39000 miles traded I for a new 2015 in the same configuration and it was even better quieter, more power and rode even better.Fuel economy dropped on the 2015 due to larger turbo and increased injectors but the added power is fun.


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[2012FB]

Originally Posted by sheriff1

Caution: dodge owners lie about mpg..."

What, I thought that was all brand owners. I have towed over the last 30 years with nearly every version of TV. On average 60-65 pretty good (14-16). 65-70 not so good (12-14), 75+ bad 1(10-12). There are just so many variables; wind, elevation, grades, traffic, fuel quality, height of rear tow vehicle, distance from rear of TV to trailer front, how close you are willing to tail a semi, etc., etc.. Even with my lighter ML350 and 25'FB it was about the same as my current 2500 and 30' Bunk. Drag including wind verses speed is the main factor. Probably could get 17 at a steady 50.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

One last comment and I will shut up.

The Ford's interior made my 2012 Tundra appear... plain and Spartan. The Ford has more computer options built within and will take some time to understand.

The Tundra's GPS was superior showing small National Forest and BLM roads when Off the Grid. The Ford was not very detailed in that area... yet. Could be an upgrade or one of many computer settings.

The F150 with Eco Boost was very impressive, but the Cargo Limit was what forced me to step into the 3/4 to 1 ton Fords. For a smaller Airstream the F150 has plenty of power with the V6 Eco Boost. Just watch the Cargo Limit. The suspension will take a toll if you tow a lot. I would have been better keeping with the large Tundra's with the 5.7L gas versus the F150.

I thought a 25 footer was one of the smaller Airstreams. However if you are usually carry over 2,000 lbs of cargo that would cancel out any half ton for sure.

[m.hony]

I love the comparison of the Tundra and Ford F350.
I still love my Tundra and won't be trading.
I know the Tundra is maxed out on payload, but I live in a flat land area.
There are still features of the Tundra I like better- rear seat room and larger, wider opening rear doors.
I love my rig despite the drawbacks.
6 years towing first a 28' then a 30' with the Tundra and I am still happy.
I actually prefer the interior styling of the Tundra. Maybe I like simple and plain.
The entire ownership and dealership experience has been exceptional with Toyota.
I guess I am very brand loyal and just not likely to buy anything other than Toyota unless it is a Lexus or maybe Honda.
Maybe you should have waited for the all new 2017 Superduty?

[merchantmm]

I too am lucky enough to have a wife that green lighted the purchase of a diesel.(Only a little reservation). So I IMMEDIATELY ran to the local dealer and picked up our 2015 F-250 Lariat 4x4 Turbodiesel.

On our first long trip ( So Cal to Yellowstone) she drove some pretty long legs towing our 2015 27' FC. I still remember her smiling as she said "Why would we have bought anything else?" She was towing on a minimum 6% grade at 72mph in speed control😘 Her favorite feature is the engine braking capability "Look honey I'm not even touching the brakes! ".

We never worry about overloading! With 21,000 miles booked since May 2015 we are getting a consistent and honest 13-14 mpg towing. We drive lots of highway at 70mph but all trips are to mountain destinations so lots of climbing and descending. I do some grocery getting and mileage suffers to about 12mpg as it takes some oomph to get this 6500 pounder rolling.

My opinion...if for no other reason buy a Heavy duty (Any brand) TV for YOUR WIFE!!